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Hell is a correctional jail

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Shiversblood

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The part I don't understand is,

Why would God allow Christians who have a very large history of sin to go to heaven, while God also sends men who are agnostics to hell. Even when the agnostic sinned a considerable amount less than the Christian.

How is this just?
 
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SoulFly51

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People think; if one goes to hell, it will never leave there, this does not have sense.

But, if hell is a place where conscience is taken from our bad conducts, for the repentance, then, hell is a place of true correction, where we cleaned ourselves of all our bad spirits,

Thus it would have sense


First of all, here are the words of Jesus:

Matthew 25:44-46
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
(NIV)


Secondly, what does your understanding have to do with anything? Whether you believe something or not doesn't really affect whether its true or not, and whether something makes sense to you or not doesn't really affect anything either.

Consider this:


1 Corinthians 1:25
25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
(NIV)

Paul didn't mean that God is foolish. Rather, he was writing to a group of people who were calling God foolish, and he used that terminology to make a point.

Again, whether it makes sense to you or not is irrelevant to reality.
 
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Ben12

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The part I don't understand is,

Why would God allow Christians who have a very large history of sin to go to heaven, while God also sends men who are agnostics to hell. Even when the agnostic sinned a considerable amount less than the Christian.

How is this just?
He is not going to that is what the Lake of Fire or (Gk) Lake of Devine Purging is for; it is just not forever. God's mercy endureth forever

1 Chronicles 16:34
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.


 
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SoulFly51

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it is just not forever.

Matthew 25:44-46
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 
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Ben12

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Matthew 25:44-46
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


What is also interesting is what corrupt translators have done with the word aion or aionios which simply means age or ages.

The two words that are mis-translated twelve ways:

1. eternal
2. Course
3. World
4. since the world began
5. from the beginning of the world
6. Ever
7. Forever
8. forever and ever
9. for evermore
10.while the world standeth
11. world without end
12. never.

Then you look at the fact that any of these words can be interchanged with each other.

The Pharisees, according to Josephus, regarded the penalty of sin as torment without end, and they stated the doctrine in unambiguous terms. They called it “eirgmos aidios” (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment), while our Lord called the punishment of sin aionion kolasin (age long chastisement) so be you bias.

I cannot find the word eirgmos in the Bibles original language; by the way the true or root meaning of eternal is without beginning or end, man has a beginning so how can he be an eternal being.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 
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Nadiine

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The part I don't understand is,

Why would God allow Christians who have a very large history of sin to go to heaven, while God also sends men who are agnostics to hell. Even when the agnostic sinned a considerable amount less than the Christian.

How is this just?
It's called SALVATION. An Agnostic and anyone that willfully rejects the payment made by Jesus - the Saviour - has no blood sacrifice over their sin.

Biblically, Jesus came to die to fulfill the OT penalty of the Law which is death for sin. Only BLOOD atones for sin. Life for life (sin brings death/ life is in the BLOOD).

The OT system provided animal's blood for atoning for sin, but that only allowed God to overlook the sin of the people, it didn't REMOVE the sins. God passed over them.
(See Heb. 9-11).
Jesus steps in and being GOD (perfect/flawless) obeys the law that was still in full effect w/ penalties - becomming the PERFECT, SINLESS HUMAN who obeyed the law.
THEN, as the perfect "man" (God Himself in our place as a human) became the perfect Sacrifice to atone for sin.
HOWEVER, THAT SACRIFICE IS ONLY OVER THOSE WHO ACCEPT IT. Being Born again. Repent, believe and confess.

If a person rejects that sacrifice, THEY ARE BACK UNDER THE PERFECT LAW OF GOD WITH FULL PAYMENT OF SIN being mandory. YOu're either under Christ, or your under the law (it wasn't removed, it was fulfilled only if you accept Christ's fulfillment in your stead).

Without Christ, you are responsible to bear the full burden of your sin payment.
THAT is why it's FAIR that genuine born again Christians are given eternal life, and the unsaved who have no blood atonement over their sin are going to pay for their own sins and be separated from God eternally.

It's a choice they made to reject His payment and continue to live in sin without repentance.
 
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Ben12

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We have some many awesome things that are not discussed in scripture organized religion: Tabernacle of David, Melchizedek Priesthood, The Year of Jubilee, Mt Zion all pointing to God restoring, saving all people.

God is not calling all people now only His firstfruits I have post the below thought many times but what matters to our religious brothers is the doom and gloom, the unending punishment, but God's grace endurath forever.

, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time.

Acts 15:14 Declares that he will return again and restore the Tabernacle of David and then he will save the remainder of mankind

See you later tonight I have to leave
 
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threedog

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No one in the bible says anyone has ever went to hell then was let out. It does sound like a good idea.

One time on T.V, there was this catholic priest. And he said that there was this book left out of the bible, and in it somewhere it said that one of the disciples asked Jesus why do people go to hell if God is all forgiveing, and Jesus said after the end of days they will all go to heaven. But I don't know if he is right.

Ever since I saw the show I always wondered if hell was actually the way it was portrayed. In the bible they hardly ever talk about it. We get all idea from hell from books that were not the bible. Like Dante's Inferno. Speculation hell.

Sometimes I just think People who don't know Christ when they die just die, and fade away. But thats probaly because I dont see the point of punishing the decent people with the evil people.
You make excellent sense. however the realities of the afterlife could be just what the Bible speaks for the"unsaved" and or hypocrites.

11) "And I say to you, that many shall come from east and west, and recline at table with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven;

12)
[SIZE=-1]But the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 8:11-12). ... American Standard

Read this in context so that you better understand what is meant by "son's of the kingdom". No matter how a person may interpret this scripture it's highly suggestive that suffering extends in horrific measure beyond the grave.


I may not like it, I may hope it is not true...but it's there!

threedog
[/SIZE]
 
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Tavita

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I would hope all would agree that God keeps His own commandments? And that it is by the Law that man will be judged at the Great White Throne judgment?

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Judgment is according to the Law.

Nowhere in the Law is eternal torment given as punishment for sins done in the flesh. And all sin is judged according to what the sin is, it is not just one general judgment for every sin.

Torture is never given as punishment for sin. If it is, then why is Jesus not in the Lake of Fire now, burning for all eternity?

The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment and torture.
 
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Nadiine

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I would hope all would agree that God keeps His own commandments? And that it is by the Law that man will be judged at the Great White Throne judgment?

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Judgment is according to the Law.

Nowhere in the Law is eternal torment given as punishment for sins done in the flesh. And all sin is judged according to what the sin is, it is not just one general judgment for every sin.

Torture is never given as punishment for sin. If it is, then why is Jesus not in the Lake of Fire now, burning for all eternity?

The wages of sin is death, not eternal torment and torture.
I think if we use the example of Jesus and His death for sin, it doesn't properly represent ANY state that sinful man would actually endure.

1) Jesus didn't enter the Lake of Fire (He literally didn't commit the sins, and was sinless, taking others upon Himself.
2) Jesus' SPIRIT/SOUL didn't DIE either (cease to exist).
God IS Spirit. So neither scenario fits Jesus payment at His physical death. (GOD doesn't die, but he DID shed the BLOOD physically for sin).
The bible says there are 2 deaths, Jesus' was shed physically.

So I don't see how using Jesus' death to prove anihilationism works at all.

We also have plain teachings on how coherant they are after judgment - Luke 16 clearly expresses there is spiritual life after death, it's coherant & conscious.
(Even if it's a parable, that is what it's teaching directly).

To claim souls just cease, is to say, "God ONLY honors the will of people who accept salvation - those who do not, God puts to death and causes their existances to be obliterated".
It removes man's moral freedom to reject God.
Do they get their will and wish in this life to reject God and live eternally outside His presence? As I read my bible, all life is eternal - you will spend it in either place depending on your decision regarding God.

Then we have the problem with punishment vs. RELEASE of punishment.
Annihilationism isn't punishment, it's being freed from punishment and most atheists believe they don't live eternally, and are HAPPY THAT THIS IS ALL THERE IS TO LIFE.
How many nonbelievers believe they'll either be with God (bcuz they're "good" people, or that there is no afterlife)????

It isn't punishment to annihilate a soul, it's lack of punishment for it and a reward of sorts for their life lived without God.

Also, wherever they are eternally they're weeping and gnashing their teeth (in derrision), they're conscious and aware.
Mark 9:43-48 & Luke 12:4-5 - a place of unquenchable flames where where the very bodies of the wicked never die....

Everlasting torment Rev 20:10 I don't know of anything tormenting if someone's annihilation.

Biblically we're grasping at straws when such clear and blatant verbage is used.
I truly believe we're trying to find ways to make God conform to OUR idea of justice and mercy and love - when it's not US people are sinning against and shunning.
And since we don't have the proper relevance of how EVIL and sick sin actually is, we think eternal condemnation is overkill.
But we're not seeing what GOD SEES and what they've done by rejecting the Son of God and His sacrifice.

If we fathomed how evil sin and rejection of Christ were, I think we'd fathom His ability to judge eternally.
 
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Spiritofprophecy

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No one in the bible says anyone has ever went to hell then was let out. It does sound like a good idea.

One time on T.V, there was this catholic priest. And he said that there was this book left out of the bible, and in it somewhere it said that one of the disciples asked Jesus why do people go to hell if God is all forgiveing, and Jesus said after the end of days they will all go to heaven. But I don't know if he is right.

Ever since I saw the show I always wondered if hell was actually the way it was portrayed. In the bible they hardly ever talk about it. We get all idea from hell from books that were not the bible. Like Dante's Inferno. Speculation hell.

Sometimes I just think People who don't know Christ when they die just die, and fade away. But thats probaly because I dont see the point of punishing the decent people with the evil people.
Greetings in the name of Jesus:

I beg to differ respectively.

For the Bossom of abraham is where all of Gods people, were dwelling in Hell, but protected therein.

And were separated from God, which at time had not ability to defeat Satan or God have union yet with man; until the ultimate Sacrifice " Jesus on Cross" was attained.

And these in " Bossom of Abraham" were there waiting for the fulfillment of promise of eternal salvation; which was fulfilled in Cross And perfect Sacrifice of Jesus: of which the yearly animal sacrifices was but a precursor to The cross.

I praise all those who post and seek to discern Gods truths and secrets of hidden revelations.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless Christians in Forum and all who use it.
 
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Nadiine

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The scientists say, 20,000 million years back, happened big bang and the universe formed.

20.000 million years, are nothing compared with the eternity.

Nonacceptance the idea of an eternal punishment, is impossible, is macabre, is absurd, is not an intelligent discernment
Just remember, if all the many verses that tell you that it's VERY TRUE, then you are saying these very things about GOD.
Judging GOD by your flawed standards of Justice, holiness, righteousness, mercy, wrath and love combined.

I'd be VERY careful. I also suggest that you check out a series that R.C. Sproul has done, "The Holiness of God".
When you come to grips with PURE HOLINESS, you'll see how eternal condemnation is mandatory.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GIVEN TIME TO ACCEPT THE LORD in the age of Grace He ushered in. THEY HAVE MERCY RIGHT NOW.
Be careful how you judge God when they're by YOUR standards which defy His own words in scripture.

IT SHOULD COMPEL US TO BE REACHING OUT TO LEAD PEOPLE TO HIS TRUTH - which is what God came to SAVE US FROM.
"you MUST be born again".
 
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Nadiine

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Greetings in the name of Jesus:

I beg to differ respectively.

For the Bossom of abraham is where all of Gods people, were dwelling in Hell, but protected therein.

And were separated from God, which at time had not ability to defeat Satan or God have union yet with man; until the ultimate Sacrifice " Jesus on Cross" was attained.

And these in " Bossom of Abraham" were there waiting for the fulfillment of promise of eternal salvation; which was fulfilled in Cross And perfect Sacrifice of Jesus: of which the yearly animal sacrifices was but a precursor to The cross.

I praise all those who post and seek to discern Gods truths and secrets of hidden revelations.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless Christians in Forum and all who use it.
I find it a slap in the face TO ALL THE MARTYRED CHRISTIANS who brutally and cruelly died for the name of God and sacrificed their lives in torment here IF ALL PEOPLE JUST GET INTO HEAVEN ANYWAYS becuz Jesus died. What a sham. I'd say God isn't just at all to do something like that.
That isn't mercy, it's pure injustice when we're told the punishment awaits us AFTER death.

I'd still love the verses that explain how and WHEN they get out of their punishment too - that's nowhere in scripture, while it elaborately gives you the rundown of how judgment works, and how they get put there and with whom and for how long....

You MUST be born again - not I wish you would be, but you don't have to be.

What's happening as I see it, is you guys use SOME verses (mostly outside their context's) to try to support your theories - BUT THEN HAVE TO UTTERLY IGNORE OTHERS that spell this right out in elaborate detail to make it work for you.
 
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7angel

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Whichever acts of infidelity of the people of Israel, nevertheless, the new Jerusalem has twelve gates with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus chose his twelve apostles and one of them sold it, nevertheless, the new Jerusalem this laid the foundations with twelve stones that take the name of the twelve apostles, this includes Judas Iscariote

REVELATION 21

9 9 One of the seven angels who held the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come here. I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 10 He took me in spirit to a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It gleamed with the splendor of God. Its radiance was like that of a precious stone, like jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a massive, high wall, with twelve gates where twelve angels were stationed and on which names were inscribed, (the names) of the twelve tribes of the Israelites. 13 There were three gates facing east, three north, three south, and three west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve courses of stones as its foundation, on which were inscribed the twelve names of the twelve apostles 11 of the Lamb.

Would not have to be Judas Iscariote in hell?

And the acts of infidelity of Israel where are?
 
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epyon

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No one in the bible says anyone has ever went to hell then was let out. It does sound like a good idea.

One time on T.V, there was this catholic priest. And he said that there was this book left out of the bible, and in it somewhere it said that one of the disciples asked Jesus why do people go to hell if God is all forgiveing, and Jesus said after the end of days they will all go to heaven. But I don't know if he is right.

Ever since I saw the show I always wondered if hell was actually the way it was portrayed. In the bible they hardly ever talk about it. We get all idea from hell from books that were not the bible. Like Dante's Inferno. Speculation hell.

Sometimes I just think People who don't know Christ when they die just die, and fade away. But thats probaly because I dont see the point of punishing the decent people with the evil people.
I have also heard about this book. I believe it is call the Apocalypse of Peter.

 
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Nadiine

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Whichever acts of infidelity of the people of Israel, nevertheless, the new Jerusalem has twelve gates with the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jesus chose his twelve apostles and one of them sold it, nevertheless, the new Jerusalem this laid the foundations with twelve stones that take the name of the twelve apostles, this includes Judas Iscariote
Again, you're using subjects COMPLETELY out of context.
This isn't about people who DIE and are at a final judgment for the works done in their bodies while alive here on earth.
These are relational to Israel and her physical future.

REVELATION 21
9 9 One of the seven angels who held the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come here. I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 10 10 He took me in spirit to a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It gleamed with the splendor of God. Its radiance was like that of a precious stone, like jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a massive, high wall, with twelve gates where twelve angels were stationed and on which names were inscribed, (the names) of the twelve tribes of the Israelites. 13 There were three gates facing east, three north, three south, and three west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve courses of stones as its foundation, on which were inscribed the twelve names of the twelve apostles 11 of the Lamb.

Would not have to be Judas Iscariote in hell?

And the acts of infidelity of Israel where are?
Judas (the son of perdition) is in hell from John 17.
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
ONE CAN BE ADULTEROUS YET GOD'S OWN. Nowhere in the Bible does it say "once saved, YOU NEVER SIN OR STRAY OR COMMIT IDOLATRY".

Those who are SAVED/BORN AGAIN and sealed by God's Spirit, AND WHO REPENT OF THEIR SINS, (which is salvation), are saved even when they continue to sin - we repent in remorse and continue to work to stop sinning).

The LOST reject God ultimately - they are NOT "HIS PEOPLE".
See this:
Matt. 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If you are NOT God's own (born again), you will not enter His kingdom. It cannot be any clearer. (nowhere does it say "you will not enter.... until after you die, and you repent when I put you into some punishment for your sins. Then I'll take you back out and let you enter my kingdom eternally").

Using some analagies over events in the Bible DOESN'T WARRENT DRAWING CONCLUSIONS to it proving there's no eternal judgment.
For that matter, I can take any verses where God DOES use judgment on Israel to prove my point in this.

You're having to erase the clear verses that tell you it's eternal punishment to grasp at straws.
I don't like it any more than you do, but I can assure you, God hates sin alot more than you and I put together and has valid reason for all He does.
 
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Nadiine

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PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GIVEN TIME TO ACCEPT THE LORD in the age of Grace He ushered in. THEY HAVE MERCY RIGHT NOW.

GOD HAS MERCY BY ALWAYS.

AND ITS LOVE IS ETERNAL


Be careful how you judge God when they're by YOUR standards which defy His own words in scripture.

I PRAISE TO GOD AND LIKE DOING IT

So, now you tell God WHO he has to have mercy on? YOU decide that just becuz God is a God of mercy, that HE HAS TO PARDON EVIL? :swoon:

Here's what God says about His own mercy:
Heb. 10:
Christ or Judgment

26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY " And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

(If we refuse the sacrifice of Christ's blood over us for atonement, we are then back under the LAW - that demands penalty of sin. Either Christ paid your sin, or you are under the LAW which imposes penalty.

Rom. 9:
15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

1 Timothy 1:13
even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;
(THE MERCY IS SHOWN DURING LIFE - so that one may turn to accept Christ.)
Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
(once again, THE MERCY IS WITH US HERE, in our ability to accept God's gift)

I'd urge us all to take God's words seriously, He is not tolerant of any sin - if not under Christ, they are under LAW and will bear the full penalty of that law. :help:
 
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