Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Which will not deter me from pointing out your logical fallacies and twisted and out-of-context scriptures etc.Lol, that's not the God I know and love. So ok I'll stop reading your posts.
Jesus contradicts you.. . .
1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5, John 1:3, and many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together – without “hell.”. . . .
I think you missed the point. The eternal fire was prepared for the devil. How many places of eternal fire will there be?Jesus contradicts me? Maybe not. I began this thread at the end of 2016, before I had made a word study on "fire" and related words. You can see it here: Godfire - a Word Study
Among other things, I learned that fire in the Bible is either natural fire or supernatural fire, and the supernatural kind is always associated with God. It is Godfire. You quote a verse which mentions "eternal fire." We know that only God is eternal, so the fire mentioned in that verse must be Godfire, correct? Are you, then, going to imply that it is Hell, when the Bible does not??
Yes just one eternal fire for the everlasting torment and punishment of the wicked.I think you missed the point. The eternal fire was prepared for the devil. How many places of eternal fire will there be?
Matthew 25:41
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mark 9:43-48
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
…..Greek is now, and for 2000+ years has been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis” etc?
EOB, footnote pg. 180
“Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be= = = = = = = = = =
luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the
damned (“the lake of’ fire”).”
The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96= = = = = = = = = =
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]Paul, the same writer, in the same writing, the book of Romans, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below.
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.Scholars unanimously agree that “aidios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
Thus this shows conclusively that “aionios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
= = = = = = = =
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be viewed or D/L at the above link. For any doubts/questions about the EOB version please read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
Yes just one eternal fire for the everlasting torment and punishment of the wicked.
universalism equates to nothing but wishful thinking & fantasy island theology but has nothing to do with Gods world of reality.
...every missing sheep will be accounted for as God gathers together in one the all things into Christ " -...
Dead doesn't mean cease to exist. Death is just a temporary separation of the body from mans spirit/soul.According to the <ahem> standard model, you must be dead to go to Hell, right? Then you suffer in the fire everlastingly, correct? ...But you must be alive to suffer, yes? But you're dead... The standard model leads to confusion, IMHO.
Another problem, no, two problems:
1. Death will be defeated/destroyed. See First Corinthians 15:26 and the taunt against death in Hosea 13:14, echoed in First Corinthians 15:54-55. Now, if Hell is still full of the wicked dead, how can that taunt be made, and how can death be destroyed, let alone defeated?
2. God is going to become All in all. See First Corinthians 15:28. Tell me how that can happen if some/most are in Hell.
I have yet to get a decent response to this on any forum in which I have asked it.
Dead doesn't mean cease to exist. Death is just a temporary separation of the body from mans spirit/soul.
And the same with destroy. Jesus said " destroy" this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up again.
His body( temple) was destroyed (died) yet was raised back to life in 3 days.
hope this helps !!!
When Jesus died( temple destroyed- His Body) was He still alive in paradise ? yes or noIt does not.
Anybody can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective scriptures out-of-context and jamming them together to make it appear it is one continuous narrative.According to the <ahem> standard model, you must be dead to go to Hell, right? Then you suffer in the fire everlastingly, correct? ...But you must be alive to suffer, yes? But you're dead... The standard model leads to confusion, IMHO.
Another problem, no, two problems:
1. Death will be defeated/destroyed. See First Corinthians 15:26 and the taunt against death in Hosea 13:14, echoed in First Corinthians 15:54-55. Now, if Hell is still full of the wicked dead, how can that taunt be made, and how can death be destroyed, let alone defeated?
2. God is going to become All in all. See First Corinthians 15:28. Tell me how that can happen if some/most are in Hell.
I have yet to get a decent response to this on any forum in which I have asked it.
In the same chapter we read this.Yes, but not all are his sheep.
But you don't believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:26-28
Not yet. "Everyone" and "all".Yes, but not all are his sheep.
When Jesus died( temple destroyed- His Body) was He still alive in paradise ? yes or no
And remember what He said to the criminal on the cross- Today you shall be with ME in Paradise.
hope this helps !!!
There is another verse where Jesus uses almost identical words.Again, it does not. Here is my position on what Jesus said to the thief:
Crucified, Jesus told the thief who perceived His Lordship, “Verily I say unto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Luke 23:43. I know that it is almost universally taught that Jesus and the thief were both in paradise THAT DAY, but is it so?
Yes, Jesus and the thief would be together in paradise, at some point in time.
Jesus and the thief both died that day.
Being dead, the thief was in sheol, and still is, as Jesus said, “…no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven…” (John 3:13).
Having taken on our sins, Jesus received the wages of sin (death) “in spades” – yes, He was also dead, very dead, in sheol.
Jesus was helled in the tomb, and undertaken in the bowels of the earth, but He was not in the Hell of Dante, Milton, Baxter or Edwards. The wages of sin are death, just as God says, not a ticket to Hell.
Jesus was “helled” for three days and nights, but He was not held, for He rose from the dead, just as we know that the gift of God is eternal Life.
He told Mary on the morning of His resurrection that He had not yet risen to His Father, so His having been to paradise at that time is doubtful.
The original Greek did not have commas, so the placement of the comma depends on what did or did not happen on that day. “Verily I say unto thee to day,…” is every bit as valid as “Verily I say unto thee, to day…”. However, the former comma placement fits better with what I have pointed out above. It really looks like Jesus and the thief did not make the scene in paradise that day, at least, the thief did not, so the verse should be punctuated so: “Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.” It still makes sense grammatically, and is much more consistent with the context. Those who argue that “I say unto thee to day...” is not a phrase common to the time and place, and therefore the comma should go as the KJV has it, are arguing an irrelevant point.
So, my answer is "no."
There is another verse where Jesus uses almost identical words.
Mark 14:30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. Jesus did not mean that someday Peter would deny Him but that very night.
Jesus would not need to tell the criminal "I say unto you to day, shall you be with me in paradise." The criminal knew Jesus was talking to him that day and not some other day.
How does that view fit with the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?Even if what you say is correct, the thief could NOT possibly have been with Jesus in Paradise that day - because he, the thief, was dead. There is no getting around it: the dead are really dead.
Furthermore, Jesus had this to say about the "dead".
Luke 20:37-38
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
What I said is correct no ifs, ands, or buts but you are so busy trying to think of something to say which might possibly refute what I post that you miss the point entirely.Even if what you say is correct, the thief could NOT possibly have been with Jesus in Paradise that day - because he, the thief, was dead. There is no getting around it: the dead are really dead.
How does that view fit with the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus?
And if you claim it is a parable (rather than a story) and not to be taken literally, why would Jesus give such misleading information about the state of the dead?
I also find 29 references to "the realm of the dead" in the NIV translation.
Reading those passages indicates that the residents of the realm are in a conscious existence in the afterlife. (Isaiah 14:9)
Furthermore, Jesus had this to say about the "dead".
Luke 20:37-38
But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?