Hell is a 404

[Lazarus Short]

I have spent the last two years digging into my KJV to see if the Hell theory holds up or not. I am a former atheist, raised in a damnationist church, a former member of an annihilationist denomination, and am now a proponent of universal reconciliation. So you see, I have seen this subject from every angle. I did not take "hell" at face value, but dug behind it to see what was really meant. God bless center-column references (CCR), for one of my early clues was the word "hell," footnoted in the CCR as "see Sheol." One thing led to another, and by the time I had finished, I had examined every book, every chapter, every verse of my KJV. I delved into Strong's and Young's concordances, non-KJV translations, the Oxford English Dictionary, church history, even Greek and pagan mythology. I may need an asbestos suit very shortly, but here are my considered conclusions:


A CONDENSATION OF CONCLUSIONS



1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation - therefore, Hell is uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5, John 1:3, and many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together – without “hell.”


2. In Genesis 1, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.


3. The Creation is a hierarchy, not a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.


4. God made both good and evil – therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.


5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.


6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. God warns of death, but not of Hell. See Genesis 2:17, 3:3, Romans 6:23.


8. All people die, but none of them go to ECT – only to the grave/pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the CCR.


9. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.


10. ECT depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato.


11. The Law given to Moses does not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments are delivered in the real world. See Exodus through Deuteronomy.


12. All the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4.


13. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there.


14. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Romans 6:7,16.


15. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.


16. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but MK Baxter has Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in ECT, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on…


17. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.


18. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7.


19. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.


20. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.


21. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – either fire or soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.


22. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12.


23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.


24. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is a 404. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

 

[CodyFaith]

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

 

[CrystalDragon]

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Revelation was a message to the church leaders at the time with heavy symbolism regarding the Roman Empire, it shouldn't be taken at face value.

 

[Dave-W]

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

 

[CodyFaith]

Revelation was a message to the church leaders at the time with heavy symbolism regarding the Roman Empire, it shouldn't be taken at face value.

Nope, it's a Revelation John had from the Holy Spirit about the end of the world and a book that was included in the Holy Bible for Christians to be edified and warned. It's the "final chapter", showing what will happen to the wicked and what will happen to the righteous, talks about paradise and talks about damnation. It talks of the finality of all things here on this earth.
There is symbolism yes, but there are also parts that are clear, case and example the above ones.

 

[CodyFaith]

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Mark 9.43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

copycat!!!

 

[Dave-W]

Revelation was a message to the church leaders at the time with heavy symbolism regarding the Roman Empire, it shouldn't be taken at face value.

John was a native Aramaic/Hebrew speaker. Multiple levels of meaning. It needs to be taken BOTH as face value AND symbolic.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Nope, it's a Revelation John had from the Holy Spirit about the end of the world and a book that was included in the Holy Bible for Christians to be edified and warned. It's the "final chapter", showing what will happen to the wicked and what will happen to the righteous, talks about paradise and talks about damnation. It talks of the finality of all things here on this earth.
There is symbolism yes, but there are also parts that are clear, case and example the above ones.

It was written after the rest and almost wasn't added to the Bible. It took centuries for doctrine and the books to be compiled.

John was a native Aramaic/Hebrew speaker. Multiple levels of meaning. It needs to be taken BOTH as face value AND symbolic.

People talk about worrying of a literal Mark of the Beast but I never see anyone looking out for a creature with multiple heads, horns, and crowns rising from the ground.

 

[CodyFaith]

It was written after the rest and almost wasn't added to the Bible. It took centuries for doctrine and the books to be compiled.

Says secular historians.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Says secular historians.

Point me to some religious historians who say otherwise.

 

[CodyFaith]

Point me to some religious historians who say otherwise.

I can point you to believers, who have the Holy Spirit indwelt in them, who say that the Bible was compiled by God himself. I can point you to scripture that says ALL scripture is God-breathed. So there never was "almost not added" - as if people had any option in the matter to add it or not to add it, and as if that takes away from it's value in any sort.

 

[Dave-W]

People talk about worrying of a literal Mark of the Beast but I never see anyone looking out for a creature with multiple heads, horns, and crowns rising from the ground.

Its not here yet.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I can point you to believers, who have the Holy Spirit indwelt in them, who say that the Bible was compiled by God himself. I can point you to scripture that says ALL scripture is God-breathed. So there never was "almost not added" - as if people had any option in the matter to add it or not to add it, and as if that takes away from it's value in any sort.

One verse says "All Scripture is God-breathed". That's circular reasoning, saying the Bible is true because it says it's true. Plus, that verse wasn't the last included in the Bible or anything. Keep in mind what we do have was written decades after the events, and Jesus himself wrote down nothing.

There were many books that didn't make it into the Old and New Testaments but could have been. And it took councils centuries to determine which of those would go into the Bible. If all Scripture is guided by the Holy Spirit, why would it take centuries and many meetings to decide, when it could have just been one council meeting and that's it?

 

[CrystalDragon]

Its not here yet.

Then why does no one ever seem to indicate it as a thing? Why not look all around for it? Why only ever focus on the Mark and none of the crazy triply imagery that almost no one takes as being literal multiheaded things rising up out of the ocean?

 

[Dave-W]

Then why does no one ever seem to indicate it as a thing? Why not look all around for it?

Because when that appears, there will be no mistaking it. No need to try and ferret it out.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Because when that appears, there will be no mistaking it.

Only if the text is referring to literal beasts. If they are figurative, most folks will be clueless as they arrive and depart.

 

[Dave-W]

Only if the text is referring to literal beasts. If they are figurative, most folks will be clueless as they arrive and depart.

I take them as BOTH.

 

[Dave-W]

One verse says "All Scripture is God-breathed". That's circular reasoning,

Welcome to the world of Hebraic logic; used all thru the bible.
It does not fit western logic. Never did, never will.
And that is a GOOD thing.

http://www.thelogician.net/3_judaic_logic/3_chapter_02.htm
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3324
http://www.hoshanarabbah.org/pdfs/heb_grk.pdf

 

[~Anastasia~]

When "all Scripture is God-breathed" was written ... the only Scriptures they had were the Old Testament.

But I do believe the ekklesia was led by the Holy Spirit, and the Councils properly decided Scripture. Revelation was added to the canon at a later date though ...

I do quite agree that the common Dante-esque ideas of hell are mistaken, and do paint a blasphemous picture of God that completely misses His nature.

And I agree/disagree with other various points above.

As far as universal reconciliation, we actually do pray for all to be saved, but we have no assurance that that will happen and it would be wrong to give people an assurance that might end up condemning them because they presume upon it.

God certainly desires all to be saved. But He won't enforce it on anyone that might truly want to be condemned. And Scripture seems to indicate there will be such ones as that.

We pray for all, and hope in God's mercy. But we cannot promise more than we know.

 

[Lazarus Short]

God certainly desires all to be saved. But He won't enforce it on anyone that might truly want to be condemned.

Yes, God desires all to be saved - we all know that. What I went to the trouble of finding out was whether He was ABLE to save us. My finding was that He is able, and then when I considered His omnipotence, it became a "slam dunk." You will not be surprised to learn that I subscribe to Irresistible Grace.