Hell: Infinite torture for a Finite life

[Charlie V]

See #2 - the punishment is not "infinite". Further, who is to say what is a "just" punishment? You? Me?

Yes. You. Me. Other people.

Assuming there is a God, then it is God who gave us the ability to discern the just from the unjust. If He did not then we would be incapable of discussing "just" and "unjust." Those would be nonsense words. It would be like trying to say whether a fanagonamazoo is spookendydosh or not. Those words mean nothing, but "just" and "unjust" mean something, and that something is something we can discern.

Most consider "eternal" to mean without end (regardless of whether or not it had a beginning.) I do not believe in eternal punishment (by either definition.) It is unjust.

In fact, not only can you and I say what is just and what is unjust, there's no one else BUT you and me and the other posters on message boards to say what is just and what is unjust. Last time I checked, God hasn't logged onto this internet message board and typed up a post telling us the answers, and we all have our own holy books and interpretations of those holy books, and we are human.

If I can't say that it's unjust, than another person can't say it's just. If I can't say that it's unjust to punish people without end and God doesn't do it, then someone else can't say it's just to punish people without end and God does do it. All we can do is look at each other blankly and not comprehend the nonsense.

Charlie

PS. On "infinite": "infinite" in the English language doesn't always only mean "without a beginning and without an end." Indeed, infinite things can be within well-defined margins. There are infinite fractions between 0 and 1, because you can keep cutting the number 1 in half infinite times to make the number infinitely smaller, but the result will always be inside the range. A number line that omits negative numbers still goes infinitely forward, although it stops at zero and excludes negative-1. (In other words, you can always make a number larger by adding 1 to it, even if you never subtract, it's still infinite. It has a beginning, but no end. The forward progression is infinite.)

 

[ls1roar]

Humans should not dare to judge God.

Don't we have the ability to judge whether or not God does good or evil? Wasn't this given to us when Adam and Eve supposedly ate from the Tree of Knowledge; it gave mankind a god's knowledge of good and evil. So we have Biblical support for mankind being able to know what is truly good and evil, the same as God does. This gives us the ability to judge him, in my humble opinion.

"And the L[SIZE=-1]ORD[/SIZE] God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life,http://www.bartleby.com/108/66/22.html#14 and eat, and live for ever:" - Genesis 3:22

 

[Charlie V]

Humans should not dare to judge God.

In most cases when people say that, I don't think it's really humans judging God, but humans judging a paradigm of God, or in other words, humans judging other humans viewpoint on God.

For example, a believer in the doctrine of eternal torment in hell might say to the universalist who sheds doubt on the doctrine of eternal torment, "You shouldn't judge God." A universalists reply might be, "It's God who saves all mankind. You're the one judging God, saying He can't be a God of justice if He saves all mankind."

The Christian might say, "God is the Christian God, and we can't judge Him," but the Jew might say, "God is the Jewish God, and we can't judge Him," and the Muslim might say, "God is the Muslim God, and we can't judge Him," and the Wiccan might say, "The gods and goddesses are the gods and goddesses, we can't judge them.."

and within Christianity, the Protestant might say, "God is the way the Protestants say, not the way the Catholics say, and we can't condemn Protestant-views on God because that's judging God," and the Catholic might say, "God is the way the Catholics say, not the way the Protestants say, and we can't condemn Catholic-views on God because that's judging God."

All the while, everyone is judging everyone elses view of God, not God Himself.

I don't think God has spoken from the clouds in a loud booming voice for any person to yell back at Him, "I judge you!" Rather, people are judging other people's claims about God, they're not judging God Himself.

Charlie

 

[DarkWinter]

the reason that people don't understand God is because he is God! If God had an intellect that we could understand, then we would all be God. If God created the universe, i doubt that he shares the same intellect that we do.

 

[loudatheist101]

the reason that people don't understand God is because he is God! If God had an intellect that we could understand, then we would all be God. If God created the universe, i doubt that he shares the same intellect that we do.

That's what they want you to think. Muslims say the same thing about their god Allah.

 

[tcampen]

"Justice" is punishment that fits the crime. Reason and common sense tells us that different crimes warrant different levels of punishment. Understanding justice in this sense, it would appear no human, no matter how horrific the deeds committed during one's natural life span, could ever do anything that would justify eternal torment as depicted in biblical hell. This is because eternal torment will necessarily out weigh anything within a finite lifetime. Now, one could argue things like sins against God are eternal in nature, deserving of eternal punishment - but that is a purely arbitrary rationalization, and not based on reason.

On a related note, "mercy" is punishment that is less than deserved. In other words, less of a response to a wrong than Justice would provide.

Therefore, the concept of an "all just, and all merciful" god is contradictory. One cannot always hand out the punishment that fits the wrong, and simultaneously less than fits the wrong. As such, there can be no "all just, and all merciful" god - just in case you believed in such a thing.

 

[DailyBlessings]

That's what they want you to think. Muslims say the same thing about their god Allah.

Who is to say that they are incorrect? If a primal fact about God is true, than it is true regardless of one's religion.

 

[loudatheist101]

Who is to say that they are incorrect? If a primal fact about God is true, than it is true regardless of one's religion.

But, they believe that Jesus is not the son of God like you do. So, who's right?