Hell: Infinite torture for a Finite life

[ls1roar]

Could a Christian try and explain this one for me? (I was a hardcore Christian for 12 years and I can't think of a good answer)

1. God is perfectly just, and hell is a just punishment for our sins.

2. Hell is a place of infinite torture.

3. We humans, on earth, have lived finite lives and commited a finite amount of sins.

So, for those of us going to hell, we have this simple equation:

infinite torture = finite sin

How is this just? How does this mathematically make sense? Since when does the finite equal the infinite? How can this be morally justified to anyone? We commit 72 years worth of sins on average, and the "just" punishment from god is eternal torture? A punishment that is a million , billion, trillion, gigajillion times worse than the crime?

And saying that that is just the way God works will NOT be an acceptable or moral answer.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Could a Christian try and explain this one for me? (I was a hardcore Christian for 12 years and I can't think of a good answer)

1. God is perfectly just, and hell is a just punishment for our sins.

2. Hell is a place of infinite torture.

3. We humans, on earth, have lived finite lives and commited a finite amount of sins.

So, for those of us going to hell, we have this simple equation:

infinite torture = finite sin

How is this just? How does this mathematically make sense? Since when does the finite equal the infinite? How can this be morally justified to anyone? We commit 72 years worth of sins on average, and the "just" punishment from god is eternal torture? A punishment that is a million , billion, trillion, gigajillion times worse than the crime?

And saying that that is just the way God works will NOT be an acceptable or moral answer.

The most convincing way I've had it explained to me is that sin is the action of an infinitely existent soul; it is the result, then, of an eternally binding separation from the grace of God, and Hell is therefore not only just but a necessary implication of the situation. Paul indeed asserted that sin was not a quantifiable matter but rather a state that one finds oneself in. I'm willing to go with this explanation to a point, but only if we allow hell to be a metaphor of sorts for separation. Not that I think it ought to be considered a fable as such, for such separation has very real implications for us whether or not an afterlife exists, but if Hell is conceived a as literal torture chamber somewhere or other, then the punishment is actually spatially finite in nature (though infinitely long), and thus would require a corresponding amount of evil physical actions to justify its existence. But there is, in any case, no room for a physical hell in the modern understanding of the universe.

 

[Merlin]

Hello,

The issue is rejection of Jesus now=eternal separation. from Him.

Actions have consequences.
Example:
Kill your mother and you'll have no mother.
If you somehow lived forever, the consequences of the onetime act would be forever.

 

[loudatheist101]

Hello,

The issue is rejection of Jesus now=eternal separation. from Him.

Actions have consequences.
Example:
Kill your mother and you'll have no mother.
If you somehow lived forever, the consequences of the onetime act would be forever.

Hell is not just "Not heaven" it is eternal torture.

 

[Merlin]

Hell is not just "Not heaven" it is eternal torture.

Heaven is merely a term which refers to that which is above the ground.
Another word to use is 'sky'.

 

[loudatheist101]

Heaven is merely a term which refers to that which is above the ground.
Another word to use is 'sky'.

We are talking about Hell.

 

[Merlin]

Hell is not just "Not heaven" it is eternal torture

My mistake.
I thought I was responding to "Not heaven"

 

[ls1roar]

The most convincing way I've had it explained to me is that sin is the action of an infinitely existent soul; it is the result, then, of an eternally binding separation from the grace of God, and Hell is therefore not only just but a necessary implication of the situation. Paul indeed asserted that sin was not a quantifiable matter but rather a state that one finds oneself in. I'm willing to go with this explanation to a point, but only if we allow hell to be a metaphor of sorts for separation. Not that I think it ought to be considered a fable as such, for such separation has very real implications for us whether or not an afterlife exists, but if Hell is conceived a as literal torture chamber somewhere or other, then the punishment is actually spatially finite in nature (though infinitely long), and thus would require a corresponding amount of evil physical actions to justify its existence. But there is, in any case, no room for a physical hell in the modern understanding of the universe.

I've heard this line of thinking several times, and while nice to think about, it seems to be merely speculation considering there are numerous verses in the Bible that seem to imply a hell of physical torture that lasts forever. If there is a separation, and not a hell, are those who are separated conscious, or are they snuffed out of life forever, just like in the atheist materialistic universe? These are questions that seem to have no real answer.

Hello,

The issue is rejection of Jesus now=eternal separation. from Him.

Actions have consequences.
Example:
Kill your mother and you'll have no mother.
If you somehow lived forever, the consequences of the onetime act would be forever.

All you have done is restate what I did, in that God likes to punish people infinitely for finite acts. Infinite punishments for one act of murder? I ask you, how is this just? In a world of eternal souls,anyways, the mother continues to live on in hell or heaven, so she is not really gone, just in a different place so your point is moot. Besides, not all of us kill our mother. What about those of those of that live decent, good lives? We have committed a finite amount of "sins" (most of which are not morally wrong to most people), how does this justify an infinite amount of torture? We're talking a trillion whiplashes and being set on fire for just a few years worth of supposed trangressions.

 

[bob135]

If hell really is just separation from God I don't see how this is bad for an atheist.

 

[OneOfHisHandmaidens]

I don't view this as a mathmatical equation. I don't believe it even fits any parameters for one.

How I see this issue is this way:

God created humans with a soul that will live eternally (after the physical body dies). There are only 2 places that soul can go after death...... either to Heaven or to Hell. If you know about or believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ; then your acceptance of His salvation or rejection of it will determine where your soul will be for eternity. Its more about YOUR choice than about God's punishment. He provided a Way to avoid the punishment. He is a loving, good Father and wishes that NO ONE should perish.

He sent His son to take the punishment FOR us.... so that we could spend etenity with Him.

 

[OrestesMantra]

Its more about YOUR choice than about God's punishment. He provided a Way to avoid the punishment. He is a loving, good Father and wishes that NO ONE should perish.

He sent His son to take the punishment FOR us.... so that we could spend etenity with Him.

Yes, but God, being the omnipotent creator of the universe knew ahead of time that human beings would not make very good choices. Knowing this, he still set it up so that a finite amount of bad choices(such as the act of rejecting God) results in an infinite punishment. Does this sound like justice to you? Be honest.

As for hell merely being a separation from God, that is some pretty cushy interpretation, what with the gnashing of teeth, everlasting fire, "torment in flame", lakes of fire, etc. How do you get from burning torment to endless "separation"?


p.s. Do Buddhist monks go to hell?If so, why?Does that sound like just punishment for a life-time of non-violence and peace?

edit:

If hell really is just separation from God I don't see how this is bad for an atheist.

This is ridiculous. Atheists aren't atheists because they have a petty dislike of God or something, they simply don't believe in him.

 

[m9lc]

I don't view this as a mathmatical equation. I don't believe it even fits any parameters for one.

How I see this issue is this way:

God created humans with a soul that will live eternally (after the physical body dies). There are only 2 places that soul can go after death...... either to Heaven or to Hell. If you know about or believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ; then your acceptance of His salvation or rejection of it will determine where your soul will be for eternity. Its more about YOUR choice than about God's punishment. He provided a Way to avoid the punishment. He is a loving, good Father and wishes that NO ONE should perish.

Your explanation makes sense, except for one thing: Hell isn't just "not Heaven". It's eternal torture. To my knowledge, I haven't caused infinite pain to anyone else in my lifetime. So why would I deserve it for myself?

He sent His son to take the punishment FOR us.... so that we could spend etenity with Him.

You can look in my sig to demonstrate how silly it is that Christ's sacrifice (which wasn't really a sacrifice since he resurrected anyway) is necessary to forgive...

 

[Emmy]

Dear SativaDreams. You had 1 or 2 good replies, may I point out, one more? Our life on Earth is a finite one, we are infinite beings, made in God`s image. We are on Earth to learn to say NO to temptation, NO to anything which is not of God. We have been given three score ten years, perhaps four score, PLUS a Saviour, (Jesus Christ) to help us in our quest, to become God`s selflessly loving and caring, and capable of living with a perfect God and each other, Children. Since we are meant to live harmoniously with our Creator/God, for all eternity, this finite life is only temporary. We are given a wonderful choice, SativaDreams, to return to God, to our original home, or choose eternity without God. Jesus died, that we might live, but to live in a perfect Heaven, with a perfect Father, we have to become perfect ourselves. I say this humbly and lovingly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[loudatheist101]

Dear SativaDreams. You had 1 or 2 good replies, may I point out, one more? Our life on Earth is a finite one, we are infinite beings, made in God`s image. We are on Earth to learn to say NO to temptation, NO to anything which is not of God. We have been given three score ten years, perhaps four score, PLUS a Saviour, (Jesus Christ) to help us in our quest, to become God`s selflessly loving and caring, and capable of living with a perfect God and each other, Children. Since we are meant to live harmoniously with our Creator/God, for all eternity, this finite life is only temporary. We are given a wonderful choice, SativaDreams, to return to God, to our original home, or choose eternity without God. Jesus died, that we might live, but to live in a perfect Heaven, with a perfect Father, we have to become perfect ourselves. I say this humbly and lovingly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

Ok, listen. God is all knowing, He knows who will go to hell anyway. So...

Also, burning someone in Hell for enternity for 72 years of sin is like raping, torturing, and burning someone alive for parking in the Handicap Parking reserve. Would an all loving god really do that.

Loudatheist, brother in Science.

 

[m9lc]

Dear SativaDreams. You had 1 or 2 good replies, may I point out, one more? Our life on Earth is a finite one, we are infinite beings, made in God`s image. We are on Earth to learn to say NO to temptation, NO to anything which is not of God. We have been given three score ten years, perhaps four score, PLUS a Saviour, (Jesus Christ) to help us in our quest, to become God`s selflessly loving and caring, and capable of living with a perfect God and each other, Children. Since we are meant to live harmoniously with our Creator/God, for all eternity, this finite life is only temporary. We are given a wonderful choice, SativaDreams, to return to God, to our original home, or choose eternity without God. Jesus died, that we might live, but to live in a perfect Heaven, with a perfect Father, we have to become perfect ourselves. I say this humbly and lovingly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

But Hell isn't just not-Heaven. It's eternal torture.

Also, burning someone in Hell for enternity for 72 years of sin is like raping, torturing, and burning someone alive for parking in the Handicap Parking reserve. Would an all loving god really do that.

Not "like". "Worse than". Rape, torture, and burning alive are all huge, but finite amounts of pain. Hell is infinite.

 

[DarkWinter]

God doesn't do anything to us! We have a choice and if we choose that it's our own making. Death means separation. Just because Atheists don't believe in God, doesn't mean that God isn't around them. We all live on God's earth, we are His creation. But in Hell there is absolutly totally none whatsoever trace of God! Because God left that place as punishment. He doesn't torture us for eternity, he just leaves us to our own sins. And as for Why would an all loving God do that, God isn't just all loving, he is also just.

 

[us38]

God doesn't do anything to us! We have a choice and if we choose that it's our own making. Death means separation.

Just like if I leave a knife within a babies reach, and the baby cuts itself with that knife, it isn't my fault that the baby got cut. It didn't have to do that to itself.

Because God left that place as punishment.

Then it follows that god made humans solely to punish them.

He doesn't torture us for eternity, he just leaves us to our own sins. And as for Why would an all loving God do that, God isn't just all loving, he is also just.

That's the problem. How is infinite punishment for finite transgressions ever just?

 

[m9lc]

God doesn't do anything to us! We have a choice and if we choose that it's our own making. Death means separation. Just because Atheists don't believe in God, doesn't mean that God isn't around them. We all live on God's earth, we are His creation. But in Hell there is absolutly totally none whatsoever trace of God! Because God left that place as punishment. He doesn't torture us for eternity, he just leaves us to our own sins. And as for Why would an all loving God do that, God isn't just all loving, he is also just.

"Leaves us to our own sins"?

Are you saying that Hell is simply a place where unbelievers are left to live together for eternity? Because hey, that doesn't sound that bad to me.

 

[FallingWaters]

Could a Christian try and explain this one for me? (I was a hardcore Christian for 12 years and I can't think of a good answer)

1. God is perfectly just, and hell is a just punishment for our sins.

2. Hell is a place of infinite torture.

3. We humans, on earth, have lived finite lives and commited a finite amount of sins.

So, for those of us going to hell, we have this simple equation:

infinite torture = finite sin

How is this just? How does this mathematically make sense? Since when does the finite equal the infinite? How can this be morally justified to anyone? We commit 72 years worth of sins on average, and the "just" punishment from god is eternal torture? A punishment that is a million , billion, trillion, gigajillion times worse than the crime?

And saying that that is just the way God works will NOT be an acceptable or moral answer.

God is infinitely Holy and therefore sin against Him is infinitely offensive.

 

[DailyBlessings]

God is infinitely Holy and therefore sin against Him is infinitely offensive.

Suppose there are two men, one with twenty dollars in his bank account, and one with a million dollars in his bank account. A thief comes along and steals ten dollars from each of the men. Was the crime against the millionaire more egregious because he was rich?