Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[timothyu]

Romans 8:7 states that the "carnal mind" is hostile to God and cannot submit to His law.

You say that the "us" is "we humans", but that's dead wrong as the verse above clearly shows.

That is why they are commanded to repent. We all have that choice while alive.

 

[Dan1988]

That is why they are commanded to repent. We all have that choice while

That is why they are commanded to repent. We all have that choice while alive.

No, no no. That's not true at all, since it's impossible for anyone to repent unless God first gives them the gift of repentance. You try asking a corpse to repent and see if they exercise their "free choice" and chose to repent. This is exactly what you're suggesting, is possible.

Haven't you heard that you were born dead in sin, how can a dead man exercise his human rights and choose the path to eternal paradise, instead of eternal torment in the lake of fire. Are you suggesting that the vast majority of mankind choses to spend eternity in hell???

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

If you insist on equating a love and reverence for God and His Holy Word as hatred for ones neighbor, by all means, carry on.

Just looking at what is actually being done to the neighbors by the positions Del. Nothing personal. It's just how you happen to see it, but that doesn't mean it adds up

You seem to freely pick and choose whatever words suit your narrative at any given time, so I see no point in discussing this topic any further.

My observations are pretty simple in this regards:

Love neighbors does not equate to promoting them to be burned alive forever for not believing like you.

I'd be embarrassed to try to pin my so called faith in that when faith supposedly works through love and love neighbors

Burning people alive forever is NOT done by faith

As I previously stated, God will do as He pleases.

Fortunately God is quite a bit better than the sum of us

 

[timothyu]

Haven't you heard that you were born dead in sin, how can a dead man exercise his human rights and choose the path to eternal paradise, instead of eternal torment in the lake of fire. Are you suggesting that the vast majority of mankind choses to spend eternity in hell???

Not what I said, but your outlook tells you otherwise. Yes, death was the result of A&E putting their will ahead of the Will of God. It was a factory built safety in case we went rogue like the elohim previously. The dead were dead as resurrection never became a thing until 2000 years back. Choice was what Jesus gave us as to whether we follow the Will of God or our own in achieving the Kingdom. Those that died before Jesus still had been told all through the OT of the same choice, the same choice given A&E. The difference is now, yes, we still will die as soon as we put our will first and we all do, but now we get a chance to repent and find life again, having understood and shown we are worthy of the Kingdom and accept His will over our own. That understanding was not available to A&E as they had not yet taken the knowledge to be able to understand. They were restricted to 'don't touch' as they had no way of understanding why. We do and should make the right decision, not thinking we can have it both ways, pulling a rabbit out of the hat on our deathbeds but lacking the fruits to prove our allegiance to the will of God.

 

[Apple Sky]

• Tartarus is a specific reference to the pagan concept of the 'lowest level of hades'; The word “Tartarus” is arguably the closest word used to this concept of eternal torment but this word is only used in one specific verse: 2 Peter 2:4 which is talking about a place where "fallen angels" are sent and is never mentioned as a destination for humans. - Also note that this same verse clearly limits the time spent in that place to "until judgment".
• Gehenna is an actual physical place in Jerusalem, it was (in the first century CE) possibly a trash dump, garbage we know dead bodies were taken there and burned in a 'eternal fire' (a constantly burning fire that was always burning garbage). it was considered a "cursed place" due to legends about people sacrificing children there. It was mentioned in a lot of parables; often 'jesus' talking about wealthy people ending up in Gehenna (just like all the poor people). essentially saying that all their wealth doesn't save them from eventually dying and being thrown into the trash heap. - The parables did seem to imply that “Gehenna” was some undesirable place but it’s very dishonest to claim that the word literally translates to the common concept called “Hell”.

Yes and here is a map of it, it's supposed to represent the underworld.

Click on the map where ever you want a close up.

https://static-prod.lib.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/thematic-maps/theme-maps/homann-map-cockaigne-1720.jpg

 

[Dan1988]

Not what I said, but your outlook tells you otherwise. Yes, death was the result of A&E putting their will ahead of the Will of God. It was a factory built safety in case we went rogue like the elohim previously. The dead were dead as resurrection never became a thing until 2000 years back. Choice was what Jesus gave us as to whether we follow the Will of God or our own in achieving the Kingdom. Those that died before Jesus still had been told all through the OT of the same choice, the same choice given A&E. The difference is now, yes, we still will die as soon as we put our will first and we all do, but now we get a chance to repent and find life again, having understood and shown we are worthy of the Kingdom and accept His will over our own. That understanding was not available to A&E as they had not yet taken the knowledge to be able to understand. They were restricted to 'don't touch' as they had no way of understanding why. We do and should make the right decision, not thinking we can have it both ways, pulling a rabbit out of the hat on our deathbeds but lacking the fruits to prove our allegiance to the will of God.

Man, you sure used a lot of sticky tape to hold your theology together. It's like the patchwork on a Mosaic Quilt, it's inconsistent and incoherent. Makes no sense at all and it's unbiblical.

I don't know who the "elohim" are that you're referring to. If you mean the "Angels who sinned" then just refer to them as Demons or fallen Angels.

I don't know what you mean by "the resurrection never became a thing until 2000 years back". If you're suggesting that those who died before Christ came into the world, were under a different covenant, then you're wrong again. God only made two covenants with mankind. The first was "the covenant of the law", only Adam and eve were under that covenant. And the rest of mankind is under thew "covenant of grace".

No third covenant was ever made so we are under the same covenant as Abraham (He is a born again Christian), just as Job, Moses, David and all those who lived before Christ came were.

The only difference between Moses and myself, is Moses placed his trust in the coming Messiah and he was saved by the same Lord Jesus who saved me. But I look back and Moses looked forward. None of us met the Lord Jesus,, but both of us were saved by Him.

God never gave anybody a choice, you have no choice. There is no such thing as free will, because everyone is born into slavery to Satan. Nobody can escape Satan's grip on them, if God doesn't free the captive, then nothing else can.

There is no difference now, the only difference is, I know more than Moses and Abraham put together, they would have loved to know what I know but it was hidden from them. I have the completed canon of scripture, while they only has fragments.

The biggest problem with your theory, is that you failed to take onto consideration the fact that a leopard cannpt change his spots. Just as the natural man can't change his nature. We can only act according to our nature, we are all born with a sin nature, so we sin because we are sinners by nature.
You can't, change your own nature, because you don't have access to the reprogram your operating system Only God has access because He knows the the password.

 

[timothyu]

because everyone is born into slavery to Satan. Nobody can escape Satan's grip on them

The only grip the Adversary has is death, and that was overcome. We are free once again to make the right choice, a willing choice based on understanding of how God's will is superior to our instinctive animalistic self-serving will we are born with like the family cat.

 

[Hentenza]

I don't know who the "elohim" are that you're referring to. If you mean the "Angels who sinned" then just refer to them as Demons or fallen Angels.

Elohim is the name of God in the Hebrew Bible.

 

[timothyu]

Elohim is the name of God in the Hebrew Bible.

The elohim are all spiritual beings outside of the physical realm. God is an Elohim but the other elohim are not God. Yet all were referred to as majestic ones. Angels, as we call them, were actually the lower end of the spiritual hierarchy and designated as messengers.

 

[Hentenza]

The elohim are all spiritual beings outside of the physical realm. God is an Elohim but the other elohim are not God. Yet all were referred to as majestic ones. Angels, as we call them, were actually the lower end of the spiritual hierarchy and designated as messengers.

It’s all about the context.

 

[timothyu]

It’s all about the context.

Whose? Explain.

 

[Hentenza]

Whose? Explain.

I agree that Elohim can be translated as angels from the Hebrew. But the actual meaning depends on the context of what Elohim refers to. For example, God is not an angel.

 

[timothyu]

For example, God is not an angel.

True but like angels, God is elohim. He just happens to be the superior one. The other elohim cannot be Him, the creator of all.

 

[Hentenza]

True but like angels, God is elohim. He just happens to be the superior one. The other elohim cannot be Him, the creator of all.

Ok we can agree.

 

[Jipsah]

Are you suggesting that the vast majority of mankind choses to spend eternity in hell???

That's certainly what they say. And it sounds better than saying that God chucks the majority of those He's ever created into eternal torment knowing that's where they'd end up based on His design.

 

[Dan1988]

The only grip the Adversary has is death, and that was overcome. We are free once again to make the right choice, a willing choice based on understanding of how God's will is superior to our instinctive animalistic self-serving will we are born with like the family cat.

All of that is true for those whom God chose to save, before He created the world. It is foolishness to the rest, they will never ever make the right choice. They will remain in their condemned state forever.

Please identify who the "we" are that you speak of, it sounds like your not making any distinction between the children of God and the children of the Devil. These have nothing in common, God wrath abides on those who do not know Him. They are sealed for eternal torment in hell, they will never know Gods love or mercy. They will only experience Gods vengeance and wrath.

Those of us whom God chose to save, are free from Gods judgement, wrath and vengeance. Death and sin have no power over us, Jesus has already destroyed the power of death, on our behalf and we are now dead to sin. We are free in Christ, meaning we will not suffer the penalty for any of our past sins, or present sins or future sins. They are all paid for in full in advance.

 

[Dan1988]

Elohim is the name of God in the Hebrew Bible.

God is described in the Bible by hundreds of distinct names, titles, and descriptive attributes.

The descriptions fall into two main categories:

Names and Titles
The Bible uses a variety of specific names and titles to refer to God, revealing different aspects of His character and relationship with humanity.

• Yahweh (Jehovah): The personal covenant name of God, often translated as "LORD".
• Elohim: The plural form of El, meaning "God," emphasizing His power as the Creator and Judge.
• El Shaddai: Meaning "Almighty God" or "All-Sufficient One".
• Adonai: Meaning "Lord" or "Master".
• Alpha and Omega: The "Beginning and the End".
• The Ancient of Days: Emphasizing His eternal nature.
• Immanuel: Meaning "God with us".
• Prince of Peace: A Messianic title for God the Son, Jesus Christ.

Attributes and Characteristics
God is also described through numerous attributes that detail His nature and character. These descriptions appear in countless verses throughout the Bible. Key attributes include:

• Omnipotent: All-powerful.
• Omniscient: All-knowing.
• Omnipresent: Present everywhere at all times.
• Eternal: Without origin or end.
• Immutable: Unchanging.
• Holy: Set apart from all moral defilement and perfect.
• Just and Merciful: Always doing right while also showing compassion and grace.
• Love: His very nature is love.
• A Consuming Fire: Describing His holiness and judgment against sin.
• Spirit: Indicating He has no physical form.

Ultimately, the vast number of descriptions illustrates the belief that God is an infinite being who cannot be fully defined by human language, but reveals aspects of Himself through His Word.

 

[Dan1988]

That's certainly what they say. And it sounds better than saying that God chucks the majority of those He's ever created into eternal torment knowing that's where they'd end up based on His design.

No, nobody would ever suggest something so ridiculous. Hell is eternal torment in fire, I don't believe anyone is crazy enough to jump into a lake of lava voluntarily. No, the Bible tells us that Jesus casts sinners into the lake of fire while they beg for mercy, but He shows them no mercy.

So the truth is far from anyone choosing to jump into the lake of fire, they are thrown in there against their will.

I'm not going to get into this futile discussion around why God didn't chose to save everyone. It's none of my business and it's none of your business either. It's Gods business alone, He has not revealed His reason for not saving everyone. He has in fact hidden most of what He does from us.

If you seek to get into the mind of God, then you are guilty of practicing Witchcraft. We know what happened to Saul, when He tried to get into the mind of God, via a Witch, he committed suicide right away, so I advise everyone I know, not to dabble in Witchcraft Necromancy.

 

[JulieB67]

No, no no. That's not true at all, since it's impossible for anyone to repent unless God first gives them the gift of repentance.

Your doctrine makes no sense and is totally unbiblical.


II Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

If it were all laid out in stone as you suggest, than God would not have to be so long suffering. If he's already giving them the gift of repentance, why is he so long suffering?

They are sealed for eternal torment in hell

Another unbiblical statement. But yes, let's continue to redefine,-death, perish, destroy, etc..

This verse will always ring true-

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

To state anything other than what this verse plainly states would be a lie. Only one person gets life in that equation. The other perishes.​

All of that is true for those whom God chose to save, before He created the world.

So he created some people he chose to burn for an eternity? Are you actually hearing yourself?

You are confusing certain elect with other Christians. But that's another subject for another day.....

Man, you sure used a lot of sticky tape to hold your theology together. It's like the patchwork on a Mosaic Quilt, it's inconsistent and incoherent. Makes no sense at all and it's unbiblical.

Wow, says the person that posts this-

meaning we will not suffer the penalty for any of our past sins, or present sins or future sins. They are all paid for in full in advance.

Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"

Where's the present and future in that?

You can't, change your own nature, because you don't have access to the reprogram your operating system

So you are basically stating this verse isn't true?

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

We will always fall short and sin in the flesh but to say that verse is not possible is untrue. One can always mature as a Christian and then it becomes easier to put God's will over our own. When we fall, we get back on path. But to say it doesn't matter, we cant change is unbiblical. Repentance is a change of heart and mind. To think differently So your doctrine does not come from the Word of God.

. Death and sin have no power over us,

Christ would state something very different to the Christian churches that had fallen away. Only those that overcome from what where they had fallen would not have their names blotted out. Those that overcome would not be in danger of the second death. Christ is telling people to repent over and over. He's not giving them the gift of repentance. Upon belief in him and true repentance we are given the gift of eternal life. Where are you getting this stuff? The ones he's telling to repent are Christian churches. Why is he telling them to repent if he's already given them the gift of repentance? You make no sense and yet continually insult others on their beliefs.

I John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

If you continue to walk in darkness the truth is not even in you.

It sounds like you're just making up things as you go along because what you are stating is not biblical. Indoctrinated it sounds like. I was once there as well. But the truth can really set us free.

 

[RamiC]

No, the Bible tells us that Jesus casts sinners into the lake of fire while they beg for mercy, but He shows them no mercy.

"34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide his garments." Luke 23:34 ESV

It's Gods business alone, He has not revealed His reason for not saving everyone. He has in fact hidden most of what He does from us.

"9 However, as it is written:

“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[b]—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10 these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us." 1 Corinthians 2

If you seek to get into the mind of God, then you are guilty of practicing Witchcraft.

"31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32 ESV