debiwebi said:
I agree with what you are saying here. What I do not agree with is the once saved always saved issue. That means that anyone can do anything wrong and get away with it essentially and in a post put up by another last night in the other thread would make God inconsistent in nature. God is Lovign and God is fair but He is also Just. Why are we then told in so many different ways to watch how we walk in the eyes of the Lord? it can be taken away because we ourselves can give it away that is why we have Free will. We can either accept or reject at any time. Thus our Salvation is not secure until we have done this over and over again daily in order for us to maintain this acceptance of Him. We are also told what is required of us in order to show this acceptance of Him in our lives. It is true that we do it out of Love for the Lord this I do not dispute. What I am saying is that it can be given away at any time and that therefore we can be disinherited from or dispossessed from or cut off from his heavenly kingdom which would then send us somewhere else by our own choice not his. So the concept of once saved always saved is not in fact scriptural.
OK, faith that provides salvation, also will generate good works:
James 2
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
and faith without works is dead:
James 2
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
but even this faith is only from God:
Ephesians 2
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Paul detailed those entering God's mercy and those also entering disobedience:
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
In the end it is only God's mercy that counts:
Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
So some are given up to disbelief and some are given mercy, but God has also sworn that all will come to him:
Isaiah 45
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
The more sin then even more grace:
Romans 5
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 2
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
This isn't a justification to sin, just a consequence of sin:
Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
So we were all 'saved' from the beginning, we are all just walking different paths to come back.
Philippians 2
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
You mentioned that God is love, just, and fair. The problem is if anyone suffers without end, this can't be love. Endless torment could never equate to love. So God's justice and fairness must provide love for all His creation, or He would have to compromise Himself and His being love.
