Hell a burning issue that needs some answers

[Debi1967]

Ok here are some questions that I am bringing over that someone would like answered truthfully..... they essentially want to know the true premise of Hell and what it really is....these were the questions asked
It would really be directed more towards the eternal torment believing Christians and they're questions everyones asked a thousand times.

How can you accept the idea of eternal torment and accept that God is all Good?
Why is eternal torment necessary?
What purpose does Hell serve?
If God is all powerful, why does he not rescue his tortured children from Hell?

Thank You for your help
In Christ
Debi

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Ok here are some questions that I am bringing over that someone would like answered truthfully..... they essentially want to know the true premise of Hell and what it really is....these were the questions asked
It would really be directed more towards the eternal torment believing Christians and they're questions everyones asked a thousand times.

How can you accept the idea of eternal torment and accept that God is all Good?
Why is eternal torment necessary?
What purpose does Hell serve?
If God is all powerful, why does he not rescue his tortured children from Hell?

Thank You for your help
In Christ
Debi

Hell is the ultimate justice of God handed out to those that reject Him. God rejects no one that calls out to Him, but He is not obligated to save those that reject Him. I want to make clear that we believe that they are people that truly reject God, not some human teaching, church or religion. We don't know those God will choose to save, but all those saved will be saved through Jesus Christ now or in the world to come. The Catholic church contains the fullness of the christian faith, but not necessarily all the faithfull are in full communion with it.
Eternal torment is not necessary, but the only thing possible. Without God, what else is there? They rejected God, let them create their own reality, oh that's right, they can't.............and the sign says abandon all hope all ye who enter here. That is a scary thought
The purpose of hell is the justice of God. He wanted to rescue them, but they refused.

 

[Debi1967]

Hell is the ultimate justice of God handed out to those that reject Him. God rejects no one that calls out to Him, but He is not obligated to save those that reject Him. I want to make clear that we believe that they are people that truly reject God, not some human teaching, church or religion. We don't know those God will choose to save, but all those saved will be saved through Jesus Christ now or in the world to come. The Catholic church contains the fullness of the christian faith, but not necessarily all the faithfull are in full communion with it.
Eternal torment is not necessary, but the only thing possible. Without God, what else is there? They rejected God, let them create their own reality, oh that's right, they can't.............and the sign says abandon all hope all ye who enter here. That is a scary thought
The purpose of hell is the justice of God. He wanted to rescue them, but they refused.

Boughtwith aprice may i quote you just take your name out please that was to good to try and put into my own words?

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

PART 1, SECTION 2 2, CHAPTER 3 3, ARTICLE 12, SUBSECTION 4



IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." 612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. 613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self- exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."



1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. 614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," 615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!" 616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." 617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few." 618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth." 619​

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; 620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance": 621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen. 622​

 

[KennySe]

boughtwithaprice gavea good answer.

And Aaron quoted the Catechism (which is what I was gonna do, as I don't wanna be "off the mark")



Some people choose to reject God; He does not choose to reject us.

 

[Debi1967]

therese I am glad you are here I have a quick question is hell actually a place of fire or is it eternal damnation due to separation from Him????

 

[Debi1967]

I really wish this course would get here already on the catechism so I could learn it properly.........

 

[Debi1967]

Ok now I am being asked what constitutes mortal sin?

 

[thereselittleflower]

therese I am glad you are here I have a quick question is hell actually a place of fire or is it eternal damnation due to separation from Him????

Hi Debi

I just had to restart my browser as I was contemplating what to say . .

I think that "fire" is a best attempt at trying to describe in human terms what it will be like . . do I think it is a literal fire . . no . . I think we don't have a right way of describing it . . will there be suffering and torment? Yes, I believe because it will be what those who go there bring upon themselves in their separation from God . .

There is a Catholic book called "Good Goats: Healing our Image of God" - it carries the imprimatur and Nihil Obstat (I think both .. I would have to look again). It is a short and easy to read book, the 2nd half of the book contains some good information that might help.

The question of hell in Christian thought really revolves around the idea of the everlastingness or eternalness of hell . . and how we understand the greek words usually translated this way . .

The verse referred to in the Catechism above is this one:

Mat 25:41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

Note the words, everlasting fire . .

At the end of this discourse, Jesus says this:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The Greek word for everlasting is aionios . . and refers to ages . .

The Greek word for punishment is kolasis . . and refers to punnishment with an eye towards correction . .something administered to correct one, not retributive . .

It is from such verses that universalists take their position that hell is not forever and ever as most teach today . .the danger in this position is how one can come to the idea that you don't have to worry abou this life, cause if you are wrong, then yeah, you will suffer for an untold period of time, but in the end you will get to heaven . .

Hell is the second death . . Christ came to deliver us from this . . the question is, is the 2nd death as eternal as God is . . or can eternal really only be truly applied to God? Was Jesus trying to say that this everlasting punishment would last as long as God is eternal?

The words translated in the New Testament are aeon and aeonios . . and these words generally apply to an age or ages . .of undetermined length, but something with a beginning and an end. The same is used to describe heaven . .

Before I began to realize how these words had been interpreted, I had to deal with the issues your friend is raising, and what it came down to was this . .

God is love . .this is His character, it is unchanging, and it is true . . I in my finite mind and understanding do not understand how a loving God can send or even allow even a part of His creation to suffer so forever and ever . . what I had to do was come to a point that even though this appeared to grossly contradict who and what I understood my God to be, I had to trust Him that He really does know best and no matter how calloused this appears on the surface, He is all wise and loving and would only permit this if it was for their ultimate good . . even though I could not understand how this could be . .

I rested in the confidence that I could trust God's wisdom and love . .

When I came to understand how these Greek words are used, it began to make sense . . the bible does not tell us what comes after heaven . . and neither does it tell us what comes after hell . . both last for ages of ages . . but not necessarily eternally as God is eternal . . I believe it was Aristotle who coined the term aeon aeones and only applied it to God and in that sense, and only in that sense could it be really understood as eternal . . the application of these words to anything else would be less than the eternal nature of God Himself . .I believe that hell lasts forever in the sense of undetermined ages of ages as I do heaven . . I believe that period will eventually come to an end . . and we do not yet know what God has in mind after that . .

Some believe that a more proper interpretation of aeonios in the scripture references above would be "age-lsating" or 'age-enduring" . .

I hope this might help at least a little . .


Peace in Him!

 

[ps139]

From the CCC:



1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture, became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.

1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:

When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . . But when the sinner's will is set upon something that of its nature involves a disorder, but is not opposed to the love of God and neighbor, such as thoughtless chatter or immoderate laughter and the like, such sins are venial.

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother." The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest. 1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

 

[Debi1967]

Thank you everyone for patiently answering my questions it started out to be an answer for one person then it became many....sheesh ...LOL
All of the answers you are giving are helping a great deal to put an end to myth for some. At least they are not arguing back with me just asking me more questions every once in a while which I think is good. It means they are at least open to the info. I just didn't want to give the wrong answers. Oh and I finally found the thread with the catechism online in it what a dimwit I can be sometimes. I should have figured it would be here DUH..... I usually go searching around the Chapel area I don't know what I must be thinking........It was in front of my face the whole time.

 

[Debi1967]

Ok I just had Apocolypse 7:9-10 thrown at me about the Great crowd.... Aren't these the ones that will be judged????

 

[Debi1967]

Please I really need help with this question please remember this is a mirror thread. I am floating between here and GA with the help of you guys. http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1589575#post1589575

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Whether it is actually firey or not is a bit irrelevant. It is a BAD place to go anyway you slice it.

God wants everyone to love what is good, Him, and God is love.

If you don't want love, you want the abscence of love, which is the abscence of God, which is Hell.

God doesnt throw anyone into Hell, they choose it of their own freewill because they do not want love.

What would "love" mean if it were forced? Nothing! It must be free to mean anything, and freedom means the choice to reject it.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Boughtwith aprice may i quote you just take your name out please that was to good to try and put into my own words?

Hi Debiwedi You can always use any answer that I give you if you want.
This is a public forum. Once I give you my answer, it is no longer mine because I gave it to you .............get it

 

[Debi1967]

Hi Debiwedi You can always use any answer that I give you if you want.
This is a public forum. Once I give you my answer, it is no longer mine because I gave it to you .............get it

You are really too much. LOL I ask permission to be polite and you are confuddled. Now here I am just thinkin it was good ole fashoined Chistianlike behaviour to ask first. I used it anyway. LOL

 

[Debi1967]

Whether it is actually firey or not is a bit irrelevant. It is a BAD place to go anyway you slice it.

God wants everyone to love what is good, Him, and God is love.

If you don't want love, you want the abscence of love, which is the abscence of God, which is Hell.

God doesnt throw anyone into Hell, they choose it of their own freewill because they do not want love.

What would "love" mean if it were forced? Nothing! It must be free to mean anything, and freedom means the choice to reject it.

Brother
I agree with you but do to so many misconceptions on the matter it is confusing to people especially the unbeliever. In order to help with separating fact from fiction one must be ready to answer that question because they see Him in a much different light because of it and due to an unbelievers lack knowledge. So to them it makes the difference. If one wants to be heard by them one must respect this and try to understand. you deal with me with patience when i need to ask what seems to be stupid questions due to my lack of knowledge and so must we with them. No one likes the thought of torment how do you think you would feel on the subject really if you were the unbeliever that was constantly told they were going to Hell. Don't you think this might turn you off instead of turning you on to Christianity. We have a minority of people hear that love to preach this to some and although they are a minority they are very vocal indeed. I have seen many times when one has directly told someone because they do not believe in Christianity they are going to Hell. It would be one thing if along with their message they were preaching the Good News of the Lord but they do not. This is not how we were taught to preach and spread the Gospel by the Lord. And all it does is push people farther away from Christianity not closer to it.
So I do believe it is our job to try to be patient and kind and loving. And it is also our job to try to dispel these notions from peoples minds so that they might be open to asking Him to enter into their hearts.
In Christ
Debi

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I wouldnt try and convert someone by threatening them with Hell, no.

 

[Debi1967]

I wouldnt try and convert someone by threatening them with Hell, no.

Ok well this is why these people are asking because this is the method that some are using with them. It is a shame and it makes it so hard on us that are trying to do what the Lord actually told us to do and to spread the Good News. And then to actually have to answer questions that are unavoidable and at the same time the truth but speak of Hell just so that we can dispell the myth. so maybe we can get past it a little to some and get back on track to the right things.
In Christ
Debi

 

[boughtwithaprice]

You are really too much. LOL I ask permission to be polite and you are confuddled. Now here I am just thinkin it was good ole fashoined Chistianlike behaviour to ask first. I used it anyway. LOL

I do appreciate you asking, it was very flattering of you
I was just trying to be funny
I knew why you asked.
God bless you.