Hebrews

Tanakh said:

The point is that Christianity has maintained that Mary was a Virgin up to the point of when Jesus was born and many, such as the Catholic Church, believe she remained a virgin until death. Isaiah never uses the term virgin and the Septuagint is in Greek not in Hebrew. The Hebrew says almah (young woman), not betulah (virgin). True that a young woman can be a virgin but the text states almah and so if Isaiah meant virgin he would have said so.

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The LXX was a Hebrew commissioned document to put the word of God in the language the people understood (since most Jews spoke Aramaic and Greek). The Hebrew scholars who not only had no ax to grind in this area also did not have the bias non-messianic Jews have had since the advent of Jesus of Nazareth.

Why in heaven's name would they have used the word parthenos? If the Hebrew expectation of a young unmarried woman was not that she was a virgin? otherwise she would be a harlot or adulteress would she not? There are other choice Hebrew and Greek words for those.

Almah And Isaiah 7:14 Ellen Kavanaugh

Non-believers are quick to assert that almah means "young woman" here -- to discredit the prophecy that Mashiach was "born of a virgin." However it seems obvious that in biblical times a young unmarried Jewish woman was assumed to be a virgin. The sign of Mashiach's birth was a miracle -- a virgin birth -- a child without an earthly father. Young married women giving birth would hardly be a sign -- it would be commonplace.
In Song of Solomon 1:3[SIZE=-2]1[/SIZE] and 6:8, Rashi makes almah mean "virgin." That fits. Yet in Isaiah 7:14, Rashi tries to say almah means young woman without virginity being implied. That is quite contrary to how he interpreted the same word in Song of Solomon. Further Rashi acknowledged that other scholars of his day did understand almah in Isaiah 7:14 to mean "virgin."[SIZE=-2]2[/SIZE]
Does almah mean virgin or not? Let's look elsewhere in scripture. Almah is first found in Genesis 24:43, "behold, I stand by the fountain of water; and let it come to pass, that the virgin/almah that cometh forth to draw, to whom I shall say: Give me, I pray thee, a little water from thy pitcher to drink;" . Rabbis agree Rebecca's virginity was understood here. In Exodus 2:8 "And Pharaoh's daughter said to her: 'Go.' And the maiden almah went and called the child's mother" (maiden meaning Miriam -- Moshe's sister -- still a child herself). Rabbis agree this one can mean virgin too.
Probably one of the strongest argument for almah meaning "virgin" is that when the 70 rabbis translated the Septuagint (around 2nd century BCE) they translated almah as parthenos ("virgin" in Greek). There were perfectly good Greek words for young woman, but note, the rabbis chose the word for "virgin. So if modern Judaism wants to debunk almah by saying it can't mean virgin, we see this is newer thinking (not even popularized yet in Rashi's day) and that previously almah was understood to mean "virgin" -- even in Isaiah 7:14. [SIZE=-2]1avid Stern's Jewish New Testament Commentary copyright 1992 (4th edition 1995) p 7.
2: Arnold G Fruchtenbaum's Jesus Was A Jew copyright 1981 (3rd printing 1995) p 52. [/SIZE]

Almah And Isaiah 7:14 (Messianic Judaism)

Tanakh said:

The point is that Christianity has maintained that Mary was a Virgin up to the point of when Jesus was born and many, such as the Catholic Church, believe she remained a virgin until death. Isaiah never uses the term virgin and the Septuagint is in Greek not in Hebrew. The Hebrew says almah (young woman), not betulah (virgin). True that a young woman can be a virgin but the text states almah and so if Isaiah meant virgin he would have said so.

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Thank goodness the NT clears it up for us.

Shalom,

Yashah stated in Matt 5 that He did not come to destroy the Torah, but to do the Torah. He never made the Torah void. Numerous amounts of evidence in the book of Acts reveals to us that Torah was still being kept by His followers. Paul continued to be a Pharisee. Here is an article I wrote concerning the new covenant....


Jeremiah 31:31,"Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah."

This is one scripture that is surely worth noting, because this scripture, at least the phrase "new covenant" is the center of debate, and is missed by many Christians. Most Christians that I have spoken with believe that they are under the new covenant, and that this new covenant was made with them... without the Torah. They insist on believing that this new covenant was made with them, and that they do not have to follow the Torah of Yahuweh our Father.

But, the truth is, this new covenant was not made with Gentiles, rather, as Yahuweh said in Jeremiah 31 & Hebrews 8,"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah."The Hebrew people are the ones that Yahuweh, initially, has made the covenant with, and no one else. This covenant includes the following decrees:

1) I will put my Torah within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people(verse 33). This actually means that your life will be directed, controlled, and governed by the Torah. The "heart" in the Hebraic understanding is the seat of one's moral and ethical decisions, the place where one decides. The phrase "I will be their God, and they my people" is a familiar phrase, which connects with God governing you by his Torah, and that is also in the book of revelation. Revelation 21:3,"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God." How do man become Yahuweh's people? It is by being under the new covenant WITH its three decrees, and that truly includes obedience to the Torah.

2) And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord(verse 34). To "know the Lord" makes use of the word "know" (yadah in Hebrew) in a technical sense relative to covenant making. To "know the Lord" does not mean to "know about the Lord," but to "know" Him in a covenant sense(i.e., to be loyal to Him in regard to the covenant decrees). In short, to "know the Lord" means to be obedient to Him by keeping the commandments of the covenant He has made.

3) For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more(verse 34). This was done, of course, when Jesus came, for his blood covers our sins, never to be remembered anymore. Jesus said in Matthew 26:27-28,"And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

The above three decrees are included in this new covenant, and were only made with Israel & Judah. But what about Gentiles, you may ask? Well, Gentiles who convert to the Jewish faith will be under the three decrees of the new covenant. Yahuweh will write the Torah on the Gentiles hearts and minds, they will know the Lord in the covenant sense, and He will forgive them of their sins.

I want those who believe that Gentiles are to keep a different Torah than what Yahuweh gave to Hebrews, to consider the following verse:

Exodus 12:49,"There shall be one Torah for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."There is one Torah for the Hebrew & Gentile. Two Torahs do not exist. Christians love to hold to the belief that they do not have to keep the Torah, but that means they are not being faithful to the covenant decrees, and more over, not under the new covenant, and more dreadful, being Torahless.

Christians cannot come into the covenant of Yahuweh, and change the Torah and times. The only spirit that does this is the spirit of the anti-Christ. Daniel 7:25,"He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the Torah." When the covenant was made, the three decrees would be here to stay, and no one can change them.. not even Christians.

Where does a Christian fit into this covenant, you may ask again? Let us look at what Paul said in Romans 11:19-20,"Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in', That is true."Christians, here the words of Yahuweh. If you claim to be under the new covenant, then you cannot come in there with the spirit of anti-christ, and try to change the times, and the Torah. You are commanded to keep Yahweh's Torah. If Jesus upheld Torah, then why not you? Do you think Paul agrees with you in not keeping Torah, thus disobeying Jesus?

If you do not want to keep his Torah, then you are not under the covenant, and you are none of his. Christians believe that Paul himself taught against the Torah. Guess what? That would make him an anti-Christ, and a hypocrite, for Paul himself said that he was a Pharisee!(Acts 23:3-6). We know its not true that Paul did not keep Torah, because the Apostles of the Lord would not have accepted him into the Apostolic community.

Paul says something in Hebrews 10:26-28,"For if we go on breaking the Torah deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Torah of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses." This scripture truly speaks for itself.

But, is sin missing the mark, according to Christians, or breaking the Torah? 1 John 3:4,"Everyone who makes a practice of breaking the Torah also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness." If you love Yahuweh, then you would keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath, dietary laws, clothing laws, facial, feast days, wear the tzitzit, menstural, sexual, etc etc. The only person that can make these things a burden is yourself. Do not make the Torah a burden, but live it out with joy, as Yahuweh intends for you to do. He wants you to enjoy loving, and obeying him.

Paul says another thing, Eph 2:12,"remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world." This was the state of Gentiles before they came to Jesus. They were aliens from Israel, and strangers to the covenant. Those who believe that you do not have to keep the Torah under the new covenant are still strangers to to the covenant, obviously, lost. Do not be deceived by the enemy who does not want you to obey the Father.

In closing, Jesus said something very great & and very scary. Matthew 7:21-23,"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of Torahlessness." Basically, those who keep not the Torah, and practice breaking the Torah, will be told to depart from He who kept Torah, Jesus. Them that does not keep Torah will not inherit eternal life, or the kingdomf Of God.

Now, let me make this clear, no one is saved by keeping Torah, but, upon trusting in Jesus for our salvation, we are to be obedient to him.

Those who claim that the law is abolished, done away, and do not need to be practiced under the "new covenant", needs to take a look back at Jeremiah 31:31-34 & Hebrews 8:8-12, and the decrees, and repent of their Torah breaking, or else they will be told to depart from the Lord. Repent(turn to Yahuweh via his Torah), place your faith in Jesus for salvation, and live a holy life by keeping the Torah. LIVE!!!!!!

Shalom

I enjoyed what you wrote but I want to take this part...

2) And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord(verse 34). To "know the Lord" makes use of the word "know" (yadah in Hebrew) in a technical sense relative to covenant making. To "know the Lord" does not mean to "know about the Lord," but to "know" Him in a covenant sense(i.e., to be loyal to Him in regard to the covenant decrees). In short, to "know the Lord" means to be obedient to Him by keeping the commandments of the covenant He has made.

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... one step further... Just as the marriage union has the partners "knowing" each other in a very intimate and personal sense, so I believe that as we are the temple of God, where God wishes to dwell is as personal and intimate as you can get.. so this covenant is that close.

This thread has been derailed because it is no longer looking at the intent of the OP - the letter to the Hebrews. The questions are now quite diverse and should be put in their own threads so that others may answer them instead of hiding them in this thread..

Tanakh said:

No. I would never give up my Jewish heritage to follow Jesus Christ, ever.

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Nor would I.

According to the NT: You don't have to.

I think that this thread makes very clear as to why I will never become a Christian, let alone anything else, because I am bound to Torah law until the day I die.

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Just like everyone else.

And at any rate I could never give up Jewish girls for Christian girls, sorry, just not possible.

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No comment.

Tanakh said:

The fact is that the "young woman" in question is King Ahaz's wife so she is already married and secondly, to play the part of "devils advocate", the verse says "the young woman" and not "a young woman" and so even if it was not speaking of Ahaz's wife it is nonetheless speaking of someone known to him. In this context it is speaking of a sign to the King himself and not someone born 700 years after the fact. If Isaiah meant a young woman who is a virgin then he would have clearly said so but, alas, he does not and simply states young woman and hence the word almah and not betulah. Yes, I realize that in order to conceive under Torah law, one has to be married otherwise the death penalty could be carried out but the verse in Isaiah clearly is refering to a woman who is married. But if you all want to make it into a prophecy about the "Virgin Mary" then go ahead but just remember what rewriting the text has done to humanity's understanding of G-d over the many years. Those who rewrite the text to mean something else will suffer for it as G-d warned.

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Sorry, did the child to which your are refering to...did His kingdom and throne end? if so...then the child could not have any shape or form accomplish the promise.

Tanakh said:

The Gospel of John does converse with The Letter to the Hebrews to a degree and so I was simply connecting the two. I also stated before in the thread that this discussion would go in many different directions. The questions I have asked and that have been asked of me relate in many ways to the OP statement.

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you are likely to get the latger range of answers your crave if you posted some of them separately

The one thing you left out:

Christianity comes from Judaism. It is the tanakh quoted in the New Testament. It is the tanakh that is fulfilled in the New Testament.

Jewish leaders of the day simply refused to go the way of the new covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) and held Judaism ransom not to go there either.

Further, what you compare with Christianity is more a resistance to Christianity than Judaism as it was in the first century CE. which exists to resist. Michael Medved and Dennis Prager made this point and neither one of them are Christian.

Further still, the non-Jewish isms you can point out in Christianity are the result of the Jewish leaders' abdication and dereliction of their duties to the new covenant and the Gentile substitutes doing their best... but the core doctrine is still right on target and in accord with tanakh.

Tanakh said:

It is obviously a well known fact that the differences between Judaism and Christianity are great and numerous and because of this there will never be a theological compromise on the part of either religion. Not that any religion should ever compromise on the basis of "understanding" if that action should cause the religion to go against itself and so in this context, it must be said, the fundamental difference between the Tanakh and the Gospel is on the point of view that one has about the divinity of Jesus Christ because after all this is a core tenet of Christian belief and because the divinity of a man, a person, goes against Jewish Monotheism at every level of understanding and hence truth revealed in the biblical text. No one can deny the exitence of the nature of the universe and so no one can deny the innate nature of humanity and in this I mean to say that in order to truly understand the "Laws of G-d" we must first and foremost comes to terms with the reality of the situation of life so that we can all see the world for what it really is and has always been. This can be best summerized in this accord:

"Hear, O Israel: HASHEM is our G-d, HASHEM is the One and only. You shall love HASHEM, your G-d, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your resources. And these matters that I command you today shall be upon your heart. You shall teach them thoroughly to your children and you shall speak of them while you sit in your home, while you walk on the way, when you retire and when you arise. Bind them as a sign upon your arm and let them be ornaments between your eyes. And write them on the doorposts of your house and upon your gates." - Deuteronomy 6:4-9

"For this commandment that I command you today - it is not hidden from you and it is not distant. It is not in heaven, [for you] to say, "Who can ascend to the heaven for us and take it for us, so that we can listen to it and perform it?" Nor is it across the sea, [for you] to say, "Who can cross to the other side of the sea for us and take it for us, so that we can listen to it and perform it?" Rather, the matter is very near to you - in your mouth and in your heart - to perform it (the law)." - deuteronomy 30: 11-14

In other words if we begin to follow the ways of G-d, to truly seek Him and His commandments, we will find that the answers are right in the law, we just have to look and once we are aware then we must perform the laws. This is the core value of the Torah: "To walk in His ways" so that we "perform His laws and ordinances".

This is the decree of life and as a Jew I have no alternative but to obey and as for the world entire:

"I will make My holy Name known among My people Israel, and I will not desecrate My holy Name any longer; then the nations will know that I am HASHEM, the Holy One in Israel. Behold, it is coming and it will happen - the word of the L-rd HASHEM/Elohim - that is the day of which I have spoken." - Ezekiel 39:7-8

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Tanakh said:

The Letter to the Hebrews (sometimes called The Book of Hebrews) is attributed to the Apostle Paul, although some doubt that he wrote it,

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Paul never quite turned loose of his ministry to the Jews (although he was called an apostle to the nations). I believe the letter to the Hebrews was written by Shaul b'Tarshish in such a way as to disguise his authorship because by that time his name was already sullied in Jewish circles.

Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 In speaking of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire.”
8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
10 He also says, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.”
13 To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

This calls into question your interpretation of whom he wrote the letter to. Why would he disguise his writing if they were believing Jews already?

but it nonetheless is striking to me, a Jew, because it was written to converts from Judaism to Christianity, Messianic Jews if you will,

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No I won't. This was a letter written by a scholar of Torah to people who knew Torah to convince them about the superior Torah the Higher Torah which puts the Mosaic Torah to proper use (the lesser driving the people to the greater).

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Wherefore the law (Torah) was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

This is not antinomianism as some have accused (Romans 3:8)...

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law {Torah}), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law {Torah} but am under Christ’s law {Torah}), so as to win those not having the law.

The book of Hebrews is as a commentary on:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Written to Jews to consider / further their consideration of entering into the New Covenant.

and so my question is that many Christians will state that the "New Testament" is only a fulfillment of the "Old Testament" and yet the Gospels clearly state that the entire "old law" is made void by Jesus Christ:

"But he (Jesus) is worthy of more "glory" than Moses, as the founder of a house has more "honor" than the house itself." - Hebrews 3:3

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says:
~snip~

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As I showed you with Galatians 3:24-25 and 1 Corinthians 9:19-21 the Mosaic Law was to drive men to the Law of God / Law of Christ through the futility of trying to fulfill the Mosaic Law. By seeking mercy rather than justice, God grants us the righteousness of Messiah (which fulfills the Mosaic Law). The Mosaic Law still stands to condemn the unbelievers for their unbelief.

John 5:43-47
43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
44 How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.
46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

Deuteronomy 18:15-19
15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me {Covenant Maker} from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.
16 For this is what you asked of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the LORD our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”
17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you {Covenant Maker} from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.
19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.

John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Sorry to fall off the OP trail for a moment.
I am so glad that I didn't have to give up my Jewish heritage to believe in Yeshua. In fact it has enhanced the whole thing.
Now back to your regularly scheduled posting.