Hebrews 6:3-6

[TheListener]

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” (Hebrews 6:3-6).


For the next 3 scenarios, please tell me if the person is saved or not and why.


1) This man accepted Jesus when he was 12 and lived a wholesome, prayer-filled life until he was 30. He then backslid and engaged in lewd and lascivious conduct. At age 42, he again asked the Lord to return and take over his life, and he then lived an exemplary, unblemished Christian life until his death at age 85.


2) This 55-year-old woman who accepted the Lord as a young girl lived a devout and pristine life, giving to others and constantly praising God until the day she died. However, upon being told her three-year-old granddaughter had been tortured, raped and murdered by five adult men, she questioned God’s existence and had a massive, fatal coronary shortly thereafter.


3) This tyrant hated everyone who was not a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant heterosexual and attempted to exterminate everyone else, thus resulting in the violent slaughter of millions of people. On his death bed, he sincerely asked Jesus to take over his life.

 

[Parture]

All else being equal and as a best guess,

1) He was not actually born again receiving eternal life until the age of 42, since once saved always saved.

2) Her faith was false since it did not stick, yet God is merciful, so this instance may qualify for backsliding though really having eternal life.

3) He was born again for real, because he really gave into John 3.16,18. God is no respecter of persons.

 

[moses916]

Careful, do not fall into judgement by taking it into your hands to judge these situations.

 

[Parture]

Careful, do not fall into judgment by taking into your hands to be willingly undiscerning.

 

[tall73]

You might check the thread on this passage in the expository section too.

Here is a reply based on mine there.

we need to first understand the nature of the problem in Hebrews, why the author said what he did, and then we can know to some degree if it would apply to all people.

The issue in the text is that the verse says they can't repent. Notice, it doesn't say God will not take them back. It says they can't be brought back to repentance. This is somewhat indicative of a state the the Bible describes in different ways

hardening your heart
griveing the spirit
having one's conscience seared, etc.

It seems that the problem is not just that they are tempted to turn to Judaism (partly because of persecution, also mentioned in the book),though that clearly is the case, but in fact, have not been growing in the faith, and it is implied are not learning how to live holy lives.

In other words, they are resisting God's work in them for years, not growing, and now rather than growing they have been in a state of spiritual delcine for some time. Though now they "ought to be teachers" they need someone to teach the elementary truths all over again. They are "unfruitful" patches of land, in danger of being cursed. Even after God impressed them again and again, and did all He could for them, they are not growing.

Their is a fair amount of evidence concerning this. They have stopped meeting together. They have lost sight of Christ as their great need and turned to legalism. They are slowly turning against all that they know. In other words, there are a whole series of problems here that are indicitive of weak faith that is slowly hardening them to God. Soon they will not even listen to Him at all unless they are shocked out of this state. Perhaps this is partly because to respond to God would invite persecution, and hardship. Therefore the author again and again calls them to endurance, groth in holiness, willingness to experience hardship as discipline etc., faith as expressed through suffering (chapters 11 and 12 especially hit this hard). The picture is that they are in danger of falling away completely because the cost is too high, so they tune God out. But by doing so they become deaf to His voice. So he is apparently saying, If you continue to tune me out, and turn away from what you know to be true out of convenience, how can you come back later? They would be essentially sacrificing Christ for their own self-preservation. And of course, would be submitting Him to public disgrace...all the more reason NOT to come back afterwards.

Basically he is showing them the ultimate result if they continue their downward trend away from their faith in Christ. So his application here of someone who has tasted the heavenly gift, etc. is to show the heights they have come from, and the depths to which they are going. And in their case, he does seem quite certain that it would be lasting, because they have over and over again spurned the most real experiences of God through Christ in order to save themselves the physical hardships. To the point that they can barely hear God anymore. Therefore the most shocking words are necessary to get their attention. Much in the same way Christ used shocking words with the pharisees.

Now would this state of gradual decline and resistance of God apply to all cases? It doesn't seem so. Someone who is simply discouraged over something has not tuned God out necessarily. They might be listening for God to explain, but are disenchanted over circumstances.

Someone who makes a mistake and then wonders if God can forgive him likewise might not be in this boat. So the audience is important.


In two cases you answered it for yourself. They did repent, and finished their lives in that state. The text said they could not be BROUGHT to repentance. So this clearly does not apply to them.

The other, the case of the woman, was doubting God's providence, but was not tuning God out necessarily.

I have no clue in the end how God will judge everyone. I am sure there will be some surprises, but this text should not be used as a blanket statement without looking at why it was given.


A final note ,these Christians were pictued as being enlightened, tasing the heavenly gift, etc. and STILL falling away, so I am not sure that does much for the once saved, always saved idea.

 

[TruthSetsYouFree]

I'd just like to add my 2c, if nobody minds...

This verse in Hebrews can be a stumbling block for some who are deeply concerned about their salvation, and therefore I'd like to point out that this verse is speaking about those who are impossible to renew to repentance, therefore meaning that if a person has enough going on to repent of their sins and turn back to God, then they haven't fallen far enough to have this verse apply to them. The Bible is clear that if we can confess/repent of something, we can be forgiven of it (1 John 1:9), so what we need to be concerned about, is if we could care less about repenting... that's where you get in trouble.

 

[ghs1994]

That passage in Hebrews is like a man eating a bowl of brussel sprouts. He sets the bowl of sprouts in front of him. He's heard many stories of how good they are for you. He's seen the increase of health and stamina because of them. He has many infallible proofs that they are the way to gain health. So he takes a bite and as he starts to get a taste, he spits them out, never swallowing. He can't understand why so many people like brussel sprouts. Well, one taste is all he needed and now it's back to what really has some flavor: PIZZA!! He'll never touch brussel sprouts again.



This reminds me that just because those folks tasted, observed and may have even been healed themselves by Christ or the Apostles, doesn't make them a born again Christian. If you only taste, you don't know the satisfaction until you swallow. When you swallow, you want more and more because of how good it really is. But those who never swallow, won't know how good it can be. These folks never gave in to the beckoning of the Holy Spirit in order to be saved. They never received the Spirit. However, the author is only talking of a certain group of people, not necessarily his group as verse 9 says. This passage is just a warning from turning away from the only thing that can save them.

 

[SNPete]

(Hebrews 6:3-6).


For the next 3 scenarios, please tell me if the person is saved or not and why.


1) This man accepted Jesus when he was 12 and lived a wholesome, prayer-filled life until he was 30. He then backslid and engaged in lewd and lascivious conduct. At age 42, he again asked the Lord to return and take over his life, and he then lived an exemplary, unblemished Christian life until his death at age 85.


2) This 55-year-old woman who accepted the Lord as a young girl lived a devout and pristine life, giving to others and constantly praising God until the day she died. However, upon being told her three-year-old granddaughter had been tortured, raped and murdered by five adult men, she questioned God’s existence and had a massive, fatal coronary shortly thereafter.


3) This tyrant hated everyone who was not a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant heterosexual and attempted to exterminate everyone else, thus resulting in the violent slaughter of millions of people. On his death bed, he sincerely asked Jesus to take over his life.

Example one: I like to cite the story of the prodigal son. This speaks directly to your example. Here we have a picture of the child leaving his fathers house to go his own way. The child realizes his mistake and returns to the Father’s house. The father welcomes him back and says that my son, who was once dead is now alive. Saved!



Two: I think the woman remained saved. God is merciful and knows the heart of a person. Besides, it takes a lot more that a period of doubt to lose one’s salvation. Still saved!



Three: I agree with the previous post. John 3:16. The deathbed confession. Is God to small to forgive a lifetime of sin in a few minutes?

I think not. Grace is grace. Saved!

 

[shnibitdohget]

Actually this verses have nothing to do with salvation. Remember, the author is writing to Hebrew Christians who are wanting to turn away from Christianity and go back to the OT Judaism and escape persecution.

Look at the text again..
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come..."

Basically, those who are saved...

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;

To renew them to what? Salvation? No, repentance. Why?...

... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” (Hebrews 6:3-6).

That they crucify (in the 2nd aorist - meaning an action that happened in the past and continues for an unspecified time period). The author is saying, it is impossible for you to be renewed to repentance (and once again having right fellowship with God) while you continue in sin. (e.g. An adulterer could not "repent" of his adultery while he continued in his affair. Likewise, these Jews could not repent of turning back to Judaism to escape persecution while continuing in it!)

See also Heb 10, has the same idea. Basically saying there is no sacrafice they could make in the OT system to cover the sin of turning their back on God's son and trampling his blood underfoot. Basically saying there is no turning back.

Hope this helps.

 

[BubbaGumpShrimp]

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” (Hebrews 6:3-6).


For the next 3 scenarios, please tell me if the person is saved or not and why.


1) This man accepted Jesus when he was 12 and lived a wholesome, prayer-filled life until he was 30. He then backslid and engaged in lewd and lascivious conduct. At age 42, he again asked the Lord to return and take over his life, and he then lived an exemplary, unblemished Christian life until his death at age 85.


2) This 55-year-old woman who accepted the Lord as a young girl lived a devout and pristine life, giving to others and constantly praising God until the day she died. However, upon being told her three-year-old granddaughter had been tortured, raped and murdered by five adult men, she questioned God’s existence and had a massive, fatal coronary shortly thereafter.


3) This tyrant hated everyone who was not a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant heterosexual and attempted to exterminate everyone else, thus resulting in the violent slaughter of millions of people. On his death bed, he sincerely asked Jesus to take over his life.

firstly, we wouldnt know if their repentance was genuine, but if it were Id say they are all 3 "saved"


1) did not commit apostacy, but like the prodigal son strayed for a while.

2) having a lapse of doubt is not a sin or unforgivable. Otherwise 90% of christians would be damned.

3) The parable of the workers who had worked the whole day for a wage, then at the end of the day some came in to work and recieved the same pay. Death bed repentance is just as capable of getting one to heaven as anyone who has been a christian all their lives.



Im just not interested in a Hebrews 6/10 debate at the moment, but I will say that it is about salvation and apostacy.

 

[FearAndTrembeling]

It is a reminder to everyone, that God is God, and that He is faithful and just, and that no man has power to inherit salvation except through Christ. Therefore it is a reminder too all men who profess the name of Christ, that there is no other name given under Heaven where by we must be saved. It is a reminder to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. It is a reminder that It is God who worketh in to will and to do of His good pleasure. It is a reminder, that the Word of God, is the sword of the Spirit. It is a reminder, it is because of His mercy that we are not consumed. It is a reminded that no one is righteous, no not one. It is a reminder God is the righteous one, and man is as falliable as mans word. It is a reminder to make our calling of election sure. it is a reminder to "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Romans 9:15 - For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Proverbs 16:6 - By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Psalms 51:17 - The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Lamentations 3 22 It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. 23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. 24 The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. 25 The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him. 26 It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD. 27 It is good for a man that he bear the yoke of his youth. 28 He sitteth alone and keepeth silence, because he hath borne it upon him. 29 He putteth his mouth in the dust; if so be there may be hope.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Before I comment, I do want to clarify that Hebrews 6 is a arguement of reductio ad absurbdum - a reduction to an absurbity. Not only is it impossible for Christ to be crucified again, but it is also impossible that His saving work is insufficient.


And only God knows the inner person, and can judge their heart.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame” (Hebrews 6:3-6).


For the next 3 scenarios, please tell me if the person is saved or not and why.


1) This man accepted Jesus when he was 12 and lived a wholesome, prayer-filled life until he was 30. He then backslid and engaged in lewd and lascivious conduct. At age 42, he again asked the Lord to return and take over his life, and he then lived an exemplary, unblemished Christian life until his death at age 85.

Likely saved all along, and because he was, the Holy Spirit brought him back to repentence. Perhaps God allowed him to learn the consequences of his sins, which led to respentence...and the wisdom gained when he came back to God led to his furthur sanctification ( sanctification as a life-long process of learning to be holy).

2) This 55-year-old woman who accepted the Lord as a young girl lived a devout and pristine life, giving to others and constantly praising God until the day she died. However, upon being told her three-year-old granddaughter had been tortured, raped and murdered by five adult men, she questioned God’s existence and had a massive, fatal coronary shortly thereafter.

I believe God understands hurt and pain. And she had the Holy Spirit interceding for her:

Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for {us} with groanings too deep for words;

Rom 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to {the will of} God.

3) This tyrant hated everyone who was not a white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant heterosexual and attempted to exterminate everyone else, thus resulting in the violent slaughter of millions of people. On his death bed, he sincerely asked Jesus to take over his life.

Probably not - but that is God's decision as he is the one who knows whther the person truly beleives and repents - or if the guy is still being self-serving by repenting, and not really a believer.