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Discussion Hebrew Roots; error or something else?

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MoreCoffee

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The early Christian church was no more a sect of Judaism than a Christian church would be a sect of paganism if nearly all of its members were converts from paganism. The claim in your post is absurd.

The Judaism of the time of Christ was corrupted by the teachings of the Pharisees. The Lord Jesus Christ warned against it saying:

Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
The Judaism of today is based on the teaching of the Pharisees and it is leaven to the Christian congregation today if any of the faithful receive the teachings of rabbinic Judaism that are contrary to the teaching of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ pronounced a judgement of condemnation against rabbinic Judaism as it was being invented in his day by the Pharisees. He said:
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold? And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift? Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
(Matthew 23:1-38 KJV)

 
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I can, but it doesn't matter, it'll just be another argument. I was just clarifying that I did not advocate adherence to dietary laws.
Excellent! Then we can enjoy a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich together some time.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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You think it's narrow? Then your understanding of what the NEW High Priest did is narrow. You can read about it in Romans.
 
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Yes, Christ is the One whose name we bear, but I found it pretty odd to say that He's a Christian. That must be a Catholic doctrine. I've never heard it before this.
Oh well, you may not have heard it but I tell you that it is a biblical Doctrine.

Have you read the scripture where it says, "
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." (Romans 8:28-30 KJV) Christians are Christ's brethren and share his name and are his body so he is one of the brethren, foremost and saviour though he is.
 
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Well, that's an interesting doctrine to get out of that scripture. It must be a Catholic interpretation.
 
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Well, that's an interesting doctrine to get out of that scripture.
Yes, very interesting and even more enlightening. But since Christ is our light and our wisdom and since the faithful have the mind of Christ it is a good thing to contemplate. Christ is our brother. The faithful are his friends.
 
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Yes, very interesting and even more enlightening. But since Christ is our light and our wisdom and since the faithful have the mind of Christ it is a good thing to contemplate. Christ is out brother. The faithful are his friends.
I agree with what you've said here but I do not accept the doctrine that Christ is a Christian.
 
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Why would that be?

Could we enjoy a Lobster dinner if we met some day?
You can eat lobster, but I'll probably get steak or chicken. I think lobster is the cockroach of the sea...very dirty. Plus I don't like the taste.
 
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I agree with what you've said here but I do not accept the doctrine that Christ is a Christian.
So what is he then if not the founder of Christianity and its first and foremost member?
 
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You can eat lobster, but I'll probably get steak or chicken. I think lobster is the cockroach of the sea...very dirty. Plus I don't like the taste.
No Lobster either?

How about some clam chowder as first course. It's a very lovely and tasty soup.

 
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No Lobster either?

How about some clam chowder as first course. It's a very lovely and tasty soup.

I love clam chowder and I have a recipe I have not tried yet for vegan chowder. It sounded yummy. I also have a recipe for vegan pulled pork. It uses Jackfruit and it tasted pretty awesome. My aunt who is a pork eater loved it.

Is that your proof as to if someone is a believer or not? Why are you taunting me?
 
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Not taunting but it is interesting to see how closely the foods rejected follow the kosher rules of modern Judaism.

My own diet, not religiously determined, includes very little meat. I like fish sometimes, and chicken is tasty. I do like bacon but don't buy it more than a few times a year.
 
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I follow for both reasons: kosher (it's in the Bible which make it much older than modern Judaism) and health. I don't know that I'm totally kosher, but what I'm aware of I try. That's how the Holy Spirit has directed me and I do not expect nor advocate that you or anyone else do it too. I would push it for health though, there is a reason God said it was not food.
 
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God didn't say it was not food. It was forbidden to Israel between the time when the covenant at Sinai was given until the New Covenant in Christ came. It was all food for Noah and all food since Christ.
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
(Genesis 9:1-6 KJV)
Pigs move, lobsters do too, and clams also. They were given by God as food.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
(1 Timothy 4:1-5 KJV)
Pigs, lobsters, and clams are all creatures that God created and are all given by God to us as food.
 
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If that's what you want to believe, you're free to. You read it one way and I read it another. It's my business, nobody else's. I don't judge you, you don't judge me. Good night.
 
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I had a good and now I feel which is probably not very interesting to the folk reading this post so I will stop writing about my nap now.

I am wondering is it true that the Hebrew Roots Movement seeks to restore what it considers to be the 'Jewishness of Christianity'? That's what a web site said (click here for the source). It's an apologetics web site and I cannot vouch for its objectivity or reliability. My experience of apologetics web sites is mixed, some are accurate and helpful and some are closer to being a polemic against various movements.
 
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Steeno7

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You keep repeating that mantra as if it says something about the covenant itself. Jesus is the High Priest of the New Covenant, not the High Priest of the Old Covenant.
 
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You keep repeating that mantra as if it says something about the covenant itself. Jesus is the High Priest of the New Covenant, not the High Priest of the Old Covenant.
I may be mistaken but it looks as if the emphasis on the Lord Jesus Christ being high priest and that being the essential change between Mosaic covenant and the new covenant is so that the Levitical priesthood can remain intact and active so that they can offer service in a restored earthly temple.
 
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