Discussion Hebrew Roots; error or something else?

[Messy]

"Christian" was not a term of endearment though. They did not call themselves that, they were called that by those making fun of them. Much like in the 60's the term "Jesus Freak" was coined by I think some radio personality who was making fun of Christians. It was an insult.

How and when was the word "Christian" first used? The term 'Christian' was used to describe a follwer of Christ in terms of the world, from the world’s point of view. The pagans at Antioch called the apostles "Christians" first (Acts 11:26; 26:28) and used it derogatorily because the apostles didn’t follow the commercial world of the pagans. "Christian" is an adjective, not a noun. The substance is not in the word "Christian", the substance is in the heart of the man it is attempting to describe, and which the pagan user cannot see.
​

Peter said, "1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf". Peter was not calling them Christians, he was saying if you're being insulted and suffering because of their inaccurate portrayal of you don't be ashamed, but glorify God in it.

Oh I heard they called them Christians because they were as anointed as Jesus was.
In the letters they always say disciples or saints.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The Lord Jesus Christ rebuked the Pharisees for both their teachings which he called "the commandments of men" and for their practises observing that The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. (Matthew 23:2-7 KJV)

That was exactly my point. They were burdening with the Rabbinical stage, where as He was taking it to the God intent. He did not tell them that what God wrote was wrong. He corrected them in their misuse of the scriptures.

The Lord also said:

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
(Matthew 23:8-12 KJV)

Which is a timely warning for today and especially for this topic.

He was saying "don't make any "one" person the decider of what you do" There were many called Rabbi (teacher) but no one person should be given the authority to rule over you other than God Himself.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"Christian" was not a term of endearment though. They did not call themselves that, they were called that by those making fun of them. Much like in the 60's the term "Jesus Freak" was coined by I think some radio personality who was making fun of Christians. It was an insult.

How and when was the word "Christian" first used? The term 'Christian' was used to describe a follwer of Christ in terms of the world, from the world’s point of view. The pagans at Antioch called the apostles "Christians" first (Acts 11:26; 26:28) and used it derogatorily because the apostles didn’t follow the commercial world of the pagans. "Christian" is an adjective, not a noun. The substance is not in the word "Christian", the substance is in the heart of the man it is attempting to describe, and which the pagan user cannot see.
​

Peter said, "1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf". Peter was not calling them Christians, he was saying if you're being insulted and suffering because of their inaccurate portrayal of you don't be ashamed, but glorify God in it.

Actually the faithful did call themselves Christians and Acts 11:26 implies that the name Christian was given to them by divine providence.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Oh I heard they called them Christians because they were as anointed as Jesus was.

I learned that years ago from the Assembly of God Pastor I had. They were being insulted.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Actually the faithful did call themselves Christians and Acts 11:26 implies that the name Christian was given to them by divine providence.

They did not and while God apparently allowed them to be insulted, it still was not a term of endearment.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
He was saying "don't make any "one" person the decider of what you do" There were many called Rabbi (teacher) but no one person should be given the authority to rule over you other than God Himself.

The warning about being called rabbi, father, and master (or teacher) is without doubt intended to discourage making distinctions and taking honours in the church. Nobody ought to be elevated and nobody ought to be spoken of with honorific titles.
The Cambridge commentary says:

be not ye called Rabbi] The emphasis is on “ye,” which is expressed in the Greek. Ye as Scribes of the Kingdom of Heaven must not be as the Jewish Scribes.
​

 

[MoreCoffee]

They did not and while God apparently allowed them to be insulted, it still was not a term of endearment.

The faithful are called Christians in 1Peter 4:16 and in Acts 26:28. I do not doubt that the people of Syrian Antioch did intend to ridicule the faithful by calling them Χριστιανούς (Christianous) which appears to be a Greek word with a Latin ending postfixed to it. However the the verse says καὶ εὑρὼν ἤγαγεν εἰς Ἀντιόχειαν. ἐγένετο δὲ αὐτοῖς καὶ ἐνιαυτὸν ὅλον συναχθῆναι ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ καὶ διδάξαι ὄχλον ἱκανόν, χρηματίσαι τε πρώτως ἐν Ἀντιοχείᾳ τοὺς μαθητὰς Χριστιανούς. and the use of χρηματίσαι (Chrematisai) implies that the name was given to the disciples by divine providence.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The holy scriptures are explicit the law of Moses is in fact annulled (Heb 7:18) but the promises to Abraham are not (Gal 3:14,15).

In it's context:

HEBREWS 7:11-28 (AMP)
11 Now if perfection (a perfect fellowship between God and the worshiper) had been attainable by the Levitical priesthood—for under it the people were given the Law—why was it further necessary that there should arise another and different kind of Priest, one after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed after the order and rank of Aaron?
12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity an alteration of the law [concerning the priesthood] as well.
13 For the One of Whom these things are said belonged [not to the priestly line but] to another tribe, no member of which has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is obvious that our Lord sprang from the tribe of Judah, and Moses mentioned nothing about priests in connection with that tribe.
15 And this becomes more plainly evident when another Priest arises Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek,(A)
16 Who has been constituted a Priest, not on the basis of a bodily legal requirement [an externally imposed command concerning His physical ancestry], but on the basis of the power of an endless and indestructible Life.
17 For it is witnessed of Him, You are a Priest forever after the order (with the rank) of Melchizedek.(B)
18 So a previous physical regulation and command is cancelled because of its weakness and ineffectiveness and uselessness—
19 For the Law never made anything perfect—but instead a better hope is introduced through which we [now] come close to God.
20 And it was not without the taking of an oath [that Christ was made Priest],
21 For those who formerly became priests received their office without its being confirmed by the taking of an oath by God, but this One was designated and addressed and saluted with an oath, The Lord has sworn and will not regret it or change His mind, You are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.(C)
22 In keeping with [the oath’s greater strength and force], Jesus has become the Guarantee of a better (stronger) agreement [a more excellent and more advantageous covenant].
23 [Again, the former successive line of priests] was made up of many, because they were each prevented by death from continuing [perpetually in office];
24 But He holds His priesthood unchangeably, because He lives on forever.
25 Therefore He is able also to save to the uttermost (completely, perfectly, finally, and for all time and eternity) those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.
26 [Here is] the High Priest [perfectly adapted] to our needs, as was fitting—holy, blameless, unstained by sin, separated from sinners, and exalted higher than the heavens.
27 He has no day by day necessity, as [do each of these other] high priests, to offer sacrifice first of all for his own [personal] sins and then for those of the people, because He [met all the requirements] once for all when He brought Himself [as a sacrifice] which He offered up.
28 For the Law sets up men in their weakness [frail, sinful, dying human beings] as high priests, but the word of [God’s] oath, which [was spoken later] after the institution of the Law, [chooses and appoints as priest One Whose appointment is complete and permanent], a Son Who has been made perfect forever.(D)


Verse 11, Paul asks, "if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, what need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?"


Verse 12, he answers the question. "When there's a change in the priesthood, it is necessary to change the law regarding that priesthood.

Verse 13, This other priest of whom these things are about is Yeshua and he did not belong to the priestly line of Levites.


Verse 14, Yeshua came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses made no mention of priests from that tribe.


Verse 15, It became quite clear when another Priest arose Who bears the likeness of Melchizedek (Psalms 110:4)


Verse 16, Yeshua was not appointed Priest on the basis of the legal requirement based on His ancestry but on the basis of an endless and indestructible life. The priests before Yeshua were human and they had human needs. They had to eat, rest, sleep, and eventually they died.


Verse 17, Yeshua is after the order of Melchizedek (Melchizedek was also from the tribe of Judah).


Verse 18, The previous physical command is cancelled because of it's weakness (the human High Priest needed to eat, rest, sleep, and eventually they die).


Verse 19, for this law regarding the priesthood did not make anything perfect. Human men who also had to make sacrifes for their own sins as well as others could not bring us closer to God. However, now, we have a hope that we can come close to God.


Verse 20, there was an oath involved with Yeshua being made Priest.


Verse 21, The former priests were not confirmed by an oath by God. God swore that Yeshau was a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.


Verse 22, Jesus is the Guarantee of a better agreement because His Priesthood is forever.


Verse 23, the former line of priest had many because they kept dying.


Verse 24, but Yeshua lives on forever.


Verse 25, Because of this He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him. Why? Because He is always making petition to God and intervening for us.


Verse 26, Yeshua is a High Priest perfectly adapted to our needs.


Verse 27, He has no daily needs as the other priests did. Yeshua met all the requirements of a sacrifice and he offered himself up as the final sacrificial lamb.


Verse 28, for the law of the priesthood (humans from the tribe of Levi) used men as high priest. Men who were frail, sinful, and dying. But God's oath, which was spoken after the institution of the priesthood law, chose as priest One whose appointment as priest is complete and permanent.

BOTTOM LINE: The only difference in the Old Covenant and the New Covenant is the Administrator. The initial administrators were men with weakness who eventually died and another had to take his place. The new Administrator lives forever and is continuously intervening for us. He is there 24/7 to listen to us. That is the ONLY difference in the covenants.

 

[MoreCoffee]

In it's context:

The Amplified Version isn't quite the context one ought to be looking at.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The warning about being called rabbi, father, and master (or teacher) is without doubt intended to discourage making distinctions and taking honours in the church. Nobody ought to be elevated and nobody ought to be spoken of with honorific titles.
The Cambridge commentary says:

be not ye called Rabbi] The emphasis is on “ye,” which is expressed in the Greek. Ye as Scribes of the Kingdom of Heaven must not be as the Jewish Scribes.
​

"As the Jewish scribes. He did not say their teaching of Torah was incorrect.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The Amplified Version isn't quite the context one ought to be looking at.

That's not the point. Did you read my comments below it?

 

[MoreCoffee]

That's not the point. Did you read my comments below it?

Yes.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

The faithful are called Christians in 1Peter 4:16 and in Acts 26:28. I do not doubt that the people of Syrian Antioch did intend to ridicule the faithful by calling them Χριστιανούς (Christianous) which appears to be a Greek word with a Latin ending postfixed to it. However the the verse says καὶ εὑρὼν ἤγαγεν εἰς Ἀντιόχειαν. ἐγένετο δὲ αὐτοῖς καὶ ἐνιαυτὸν ὅλον συναχθῆναι ἐν τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ καὶ διδάξαι ὄχλον ἱκανόν, χρηματίσαι τε πρώτως ἐν Ἀντιοχείᾳ τοὺς μαθητὰς Χριστιανούς. and the use of χρηματίσαι (Chrematisai) implies that the name was given to the disciples by divine providence.

And again, while God may have allowed them to be insulted, it was NOT a term of endearment, nor did they call themselves that. I've also already responded to the 1 Peter 4:16 verse. He was saying that if you're suffering insults of being called Christian, give God glory.

 

[MoreCoffee]

"As the Jewish scribes. He did not say their teaching of Torah was incorrect.

Their judgements while sitting in the seat of Moses were to be obeyed but their commandments were the commandments of men that nullified the Law (Mark 7:7,8).

Of course these comments relate to those under the Law while it was still in force but now it is no longer in force and Pharisees do not sit in Moses' seat any more. ​

Rabbinic Judaism is a new religion with no significant attachment to the holy scriptures without first filtering it through the Talmud. In effect rabbinic Judaism is the logical outcome of Pharisaism. A religion built on the opinions and teaching of "the elders" that sets at naught the commandments of God (Mark 7:9-13).

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

"If any suffer "as" a Christian"

Click on the word "as"

 

[MoreCoffee]

And again, while God may have allowed them to be insulted, it was NOT a term of endearment, nor did they call themselves that. I've also already responded to the 1 Peter 4:16 verse. He was saying that if you're suffering insults of being called Christian, give God glory.

I am a Christian if the name offends then what is to be done? I am not going to abandon the name that God gave to the faithful simply because those who first used it did so in mockery of them. And I am not going to adopt some fanciful name that teachers of the law today think is better.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Their judgements while sitting in the seat of Moses were to be obeyed but their commandments were the commandments of men that nullified the Law (Mark 7:7,8).

Of course these comments relate to those under the Law while it was still in force but now it is no longer in force and Pharisees do not sit in Moses' seat any more. ​

Rabbinic Judaism is a new religion with no significant attachment to the holy scriptures without first filtering it through the Talmud. In effect rabbinic Judaism is the logical outcome of Pharisaism. A religion built on the opinions and teaching of "the elders" that sets at naught the commandments of God (Mark 7:9-13).

The only thing that changed is the High Priest. Went from human to Jesus Christ who never sleeps or slumbers, does not get sick and can't come in today, and lives eternally.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I am a Christian if the name offends than what is to be done? I am not going to abandon the name that God gave to the faithful simply because those who first used it did so in mockery of them. And I am not going to adopt some fanciful name that teachers of the law today think is better.

I never said you should, I was just giving you a history lesson of where the term came from. There's nothing wrong with calling oneself a Christian. I call myself Christian.

 

[MoreCoffee]

The only thing that changed is the High Priest. Went from human to Jesus Christ who never sleeps or slumbers, does not get sick and can't come in today, and lives eternally.

If it truly is your opinion that the only change is the one your post names then what is there left to say but that your post is in error and that the new testament does not teach what your post teaches.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I never said you should, I was just giving you a history lesson of where the term came from.

The lesson in your post is incorrect because it ignores the teaching in Acts 11:26; specifically that the name was give to the faithful by divine providence. And even though the idea of divine providence is only implied and not explicitly stated in the passage it is a serious mistake to ignore it. Besides 1Peter 4:16 tells the faithful not to feel shame because they suffer as Christians because God himself bears this name, that is to say because the Lord Jesus Christ is himself a Christian.

But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or a thief, or a wrongdoer, or a mischief-maker; yet if one suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but under that name let him glorify God. For the time has come for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? And "If the righteous man is scarcely saved, where will the impious and sinner appear?" Therefore let those who suffer according to God's will do right and entrust their souls to a faithful Creator.
(1 Peter 4:15-19 RSV)

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