Hebrew Orthodox?

[Reader Antonius]

I have been doing some research on Hebrew Catholics:

http://www.hebrewcatholic.org/

Is there such a thing as a "Hebrew Orthodox" that is, a Jew who became Orthodox but, in some ways, kept his/her identity as a Jewish Christian.

If so, are there any examples of this in Orthodox Church history?

 

[ma2000]

I don't believe that becomming Orthodox (or Christian) makes you forget your ancestors or your country. In this way, there are many Hebrew Orthodox Christians. This is attested by the large numbers of Hebrews who come to Jordan on Lord's Baptism.

In Romania there are a few well known Hebrew Orthodox, like Fr Nicolae Steinhardt and, according to some sources, Richard Wurmbrand.
Fr Nicolae's book, "Jurnalul Fericirii" (The Diary Of Happiness), is one of my favorite books.

Fr Nicolae Steinhardt

 

[jckstraw72]

i would think when joining Orthodoxy a Jew would leave behind things like Passover and all that bc we have the fulfillment in Orthodoxy. Really, they are embracing and fulfilling their Jewish heritage by becoming Orthodox.

 

[ThePilgrim]

There's a Hebrew convert to Orthodoxy who's a priest who does mission work in Jerusalem, and serves the Liturgy in Hebrew. He's got a growing congregation of mostly converts.

Grace and peace,
John

 

[davidoffinland]

From Finland.

Some years ago I was in contact with the educational director of a Heb Orthodox group...he said that they honored the torah...but they were not members of the Eastern Orthodox nor Oriental Orthodox...but Jews celebrating their Jewishness in a Orthodox way...(high view of Mary...icons, keep the Jewish sabbath, etc) they honored Nestorius and wrote that he was misunderstood..and honored the Nestorian way but not exclusively....some what puzzling because it seemed to be a very small group in the States...they were primarily in the M.E. Perhaps, you can search more on it. Hope this helps abit.

In Him, david.

 

[Prawnik]

Fr. Symeon of St. Isaac of Syria Skete (www.skete.com) was born Jewish.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Fr. James Bernstein, a priest in Washington, is a Jewish convert.

I personally know of two Jewish converts to Orthodoxy.


Mary

 

[ThePilgrim]

At least two, and I think three, of the nuns at Holy Transfiguration in Ellwood City, are converts from Judaism. I also know of multiple other lay converts.

But besides Jewish-ethnicity, what need is there to preserve any of the Jewish religion? It was the position of the early Church that the Church is the true Israel, in continuity with the OT Israel. St. Justin Martyr is very plain about claiming that even the Old Testament Scriptures belong more truly to the Christians than the Jews.

Also, modern Judaism, from which these converts have come, is not the same as ancient Judaism. In fact, they're radically different, because of all the changes that took place after the destruction of the temple.

So yes, there are a number of converts to Orthodoxy from Judaism. They find fullness within the bosom of the Church, in which there is "neither Jew nor Greek."

Grace and peace,
John

 

[davidoffinland]

From Finland.

If you read my post on #5...this group has no connection with the Eastern/Greek or Oriental Orthodox Churches...they may recognize them but they are not part of them...

In Him, david.

 

[E.C.]

From Finland.

Some years ago I was in contact with the educational director of a Heb Orthodox group...he said that they honored the torah...but they were not members of the Eastern Orthodox nor Oriental Orthodox...but Jews celebrating their Jewishness in a Orthodox way...(high view of Mary...icons, keep the Jewish sabbath, etc) they honored Nestorius and wrote that he was misunderstood..and honored the Nestorian way but not exclusively....some what puzzling because it seemed to be a very small group in the States...they were primarily in the M.E. Perhaps, you can search more on it. Hope this helps abit.

In Him, david.

Sounds more like Assyrians with the Nestorian part.
Or a group of Mar Thoma folks from India.

Interesting.


I have heard that the most difficult conversion to go from religion A to religion B is for a Jew to become a Christian.

 

[davidoffinland]

From Finland.

They are not a part of the Assyrian...but closer to the St Thomas group in India....but I do not know the finer points of their doctrines.

In Him, david.

 

[Ivy]

But besides Jewish-ethnicity, what need is there to preserve any of the Jewish religion?

IMHO it would be best if those Jewish believers themselves be the ones to sort through the Jewish religion and decide what they want to discard and keep.

After all, it is theirs.

 

[ThePilgrim]

IMHO it would be best if those Jewish believers themselves be the ones to sort through the Jewish religion and decide what they want to discard and keep.

After all, it is theirs.

No, everyone who comes to faith in Christ must leave their own will behind and accept God's will. If you become a Christian, you cannot decide what parts you will accept, or what parts of a former religion you will retain.

The faith is the same for all, the "faith delivered once for all to the saints."

Grace and peace,
John

 

[Thekla]

it seems that Jewish culture is deeply interwoven with its faith; this is similar to Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy has always been able to "lift" (as in elevate) cultural elements to God. In this way, the culture becomes deeply Christianized (and in times of trial, the culture, now Christianized, becomes a protection for the Church against secularization, attack, etc).

 

[cassc]

I have heard that the most difficult conversion to go from religion A to religion B is for a Jew to become a Christian.

hmmm that's an interesting thought. What about Islam?

 

[the_Abbot]

From Finland.

Some years ago I was in contact with the educational director of a Heb Orthodox group...he said that they honored the torah...but they were not members of the Eastern Orthodox nor Oriental Orthodox...but Jews celebrating their Jewishness in a Orthodox way...(high view of Mary...icons, keep the Jewish sabbath, etc) they honored Nestorius and wrote that he was misunderstood..and honored the Nestorian way but not exclusively....some what puzzling because it seemed to be a very small group in the States...they were primarily in the M.E. Perhaps, you can search more on it. Hope this helps abit.

In Him, david.

I wonder if this is the group you are talking about

http://www.churchofjerusalem.org/

 

[davidoffinland]

From Finland

I think it is but couple years ago it came with a different name...plus I do not see the links to their homepage in the States. If I remember right some one wrote to their forum asking, "Is this group an internet church?" In the States, if my memory serves me, they had a church in Oregon and in TN and couple of other places. If you want to dig further...proceed with caution.

In Him, david.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

First of all I agree that we need to focus on the word convert. That means to change over. Orthodoxy is the fullfillment of Judaism and I think many of our rituals even attest to this. I think if a Jewish person (As long as they were orthodox and not some new-age version of the religion) came to Orthodoxy and viewed Orthdoxy as the fullfilled version of their religion, their past baggage could be of a great spiritual aid. They may more naturally appreciate certain deepr truths of CHristianity that other converts or cradles might not be able to appreciate. But, they need to be ready to realize that this is fullfilled judaism and that to convert necessarily means to go against what you always felt comfrotable with. Jewish people, just as protestant converts of converts from Catholicism need to set aside what they think when converting and accept the Orthodox Way. There are many things as a former protestant that I origianlly thought shoudl change. I would think "But, I think this is wonderful about the Lutheran Church and there is nothing UNorthodox about it, in fact it seems better, so why can't everyone see how brilliant my ideas are?" But, the BIGGEST (but not only) problem with that POV is that I am missig the big picture and I am coming in unwilling to learn and ready to teach. Who am I to think I should teach the Church something? Arrogant. And I ddin't even realize it. I think the biggest stumbling block for anyone to come to Christ is theology and then pride. Once one realizes the OC is the CHurch, if they realize what that means (and especially if a Jewish person realizes who Jesus truly is) then they won't care about anything else except learning how to be Orthodox.

Xpy

 

[Thekla]

I don't want to start trouble here

but I think Orthodoxy may be (uniquely) able to accommodate existing "ethnic expression" without losing its Christian ithos. It is hard to imagine, perhaps, for many of us. Our identity as USAmericans is not so strongly wrapped in a culture. I agree with Xpy - at least from what I've heard from others -- there is much in EO that shows its direct descent from Judaism (to the extent that EO worship is, I've heard in discussion, "familiar" to those accustomed to Jewish worship).

The question becomes, what must be "lifted" into a new/old form.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I don't want to start trouble here

but I think Orthodoxy may be (uniquely) able to accommodate existing "ethnic expression" without losing its Christian ithos. It is hard to imagine, perhaps, for many of us. Our identity as USAmericans is not so strongly wrapped in a culture. I agree with Xpy - at least from what I've heard from others -- there is much in EO that shows its direct descent from Judaism (to the extent that EO worship is, I've heard in discussion, "familiar" to those accustomed to Jewish worship).

The question becomes, what must be "lifted" into a new/old form.

In theory I agree. However, I think we must not only ask about "what" is to be changed but why.