I know. That is where I would have been burned at the stake for believing what I do now (and probably was back then.)
When Jesus walked the Earth, he came as a servant. He washed the feet of man, and in return, the prostitute washed his feet with her tears and dried them with her hair, showing the love that was shown to her. He didn't sit on a throne saying "adore me." Christ also said that as much as one has done to the least, so have they done to Christ.
At the time of the Bible, the idea of royalty, royal blood, Kings and Thrones were common. Today they are not. I think it was described as best as people could understand, but similar to Kungfu Panda, where everyone kneeled in honor, in thankfulness, rather than KP demanding it, so it shall probably be. However, the bible talks of "streets of gold." If there is no monetary system, then the gold will be as worthless as rubble. If we don't have bodies, then there is no need for mansions, no need for protection from the elements. There are times when I have heard people singing in tongues, and heard a chord of harmony, and for that split second, that beautiful chord seemed to be how I imagine God - like something that is all things at once, that ebs and flows in light, that is peace, that is timeless.
I can't really put it into words, but I think it will be nothing like Earth, far less limiting.
No one can blame you for being unable to express an abstract idea fully. Language is just a system of symbols we use to represent everything from "tree" to "love" it's imperfect and crude and many things can only be expressed through a combination of actions, words, ect. It's why we turn to music and the like to express deep emotions.
I think that the idea of an infinite life in a 'heaven' of any sort would be fantastic, but we have to be honest to ourselves about the potential that there really is nothing there but our imaginations. Humans have great mental potential and I think that's why religion is so powerful. We're capable of grasping abstract ideas and we embrace the hype of it all very easily but we forget to follow through with our own thoughts.
It's much like when people buy a car. I sold cars for a while when I was paying for school. It's a psychological game that is played with peoples minds. You build this great image of yourself and the product you sell. Get them emotionally involved in it, make them love it, and want to own it all costs and then when they ''just cant afford not to buy it'' present the numbers and show them the reality of owning what they want.
At that point, people will negotiate a little bit but will still pay more than they intended to own the car they want because they are sold on it already. If they took all the information into account from the get-go they could make a more pragmatic decision with all the facts instead of deciding on their emotions. They would fight for the price they want more because they have a better idea of its worth.
I feel that religion is the same way. The major world religions a.k.a. the "desert dogmas" offer fantastic rewards for subscribing to their ideals. They offer an eternity in heaven with various different rewards depending on which "car" you choose. People get an information overload at the start, they think of all these great things that will happen for them and their friends and they want to share it with everyone they know. It seems like the best thing that could ever happen but again they're making the decision to love it based on what information is given at the start. By the time that theoretical questions are raised about it's legitimacy they love it too much and have put too much time into it to accept that it may have been a bad choice. So people will rationalize for it and make excuses for it in an effort to hold on to those rewards.
I mean when you look at the way religions came about and how they appeal to the masses, you begin to recognize some common trends across all of them. They're selling the same thing, a way to ease the fear of death. Religions began appearing in societies across the globe at about the time that the first sciences appeared and at about the same time that the first philosophers began walking the earth(with the exception of the egyptians).
It was a time when people began to explore their world and question existence. It's oddly coincidental that religion appears at that time and answers these questions and eases these fears and objections.
I guess that my whole point is that religions all offer these great things but, I mean:
"10
He took me in spirit to a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God.
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It gleamed with the splendor of God. Its radiance was like that of a precious stone, like jasper, clear as crystal.
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It had a massive, high wall, with twelve gates where twelve angels were stationed and on which names were inscribed, (the names) of the twelve tribes of the Israelites.
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There were three gates facing east, three north, three south, and three west.
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The wall of the city had twelve courses of stones as its foundation, on which were inscribed the twelve names of the twelve apostles 11 of the Lamb.
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12 The one who spoke to me held a gold measuring rod to measure the city, its gates, and its wall.
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The city was square, its length the same as (also) its width. He measured the city with the rod and found it fifteen hundred miles 13 in length and width and height.
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He also measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits 14 according to the standard unit of measurement the angel used.
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15 The wall was constructed of jasper, while the city was pure gold, clear as glass.
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The foundations of the city wall were decorated with every precious stone; the first course of stones was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald,
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the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh hyacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.
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The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made from a single pearl; and the street of the city was of pure gold, transparent as glass.
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16 I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God almighty and the Lamb.
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17 The city had no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gave it light, and its lamp was the Lamb.
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The nations will walk by its light, 18 and to it the kings of the earth will bring their treasure.
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During the day its gates will never be shut, and there will be no night there.
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The treasure and wealth of the nations will be brought there,
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but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."
all this description of material wealth in heaven seems to go against the philosophy of money having no value in the eyes of christ. Why does god need gold and gems in heaven? If I lived in ancient times and someone told me that this is what heaven is like, why would I not sign up?
The rewards and punishments in the bible seem to strangely coincide with what a man living in those times would desire:
wealth in gold and gems
no same-sex sex
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"Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says."[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1](1 Corinthians 14:34)[/SIZE]
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[SIZE=-1]"Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ."[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1](Ephesians 6:5)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters in everything, and to be well-pleasing, not talking back ."[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1](Titus 2:9)[/SIZE]
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The Qur'an and Islam is just as ridiculous in its beliefs, rewards, taboos, and punishments. I can understand how people can initially overlook the contradictions and the ridiculous expectations of religion but how people continue to rationalize it upon its discovery is beyond me.
[SIZE=-1]My whole point is that heaven is described as this grand place that contradicts much of Christianities own ideals and that even in heaven, you must recognize that there are those that do not enter and you must either forget them or be there for eternity separated from them with no way to get them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Beyond the OP of this thread, the actual motive was to get people to start examining their beliefs. At what point will we grow up and drop our prejudices, fears, and superstitions? We willingly choose to not understand, not tolerate, and not think because of a text that was supposedly written by a god that appears to tailor to greedy chauvinists.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]I will say that the bible holds some good moral truths in it though. We all recognize that it's bad to murder and steal and such but did we really need the bible to tell us that?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]And as I have said before; I do not know what is right but I know what is wrong. There may be a god but its not /that/ god. There may be a heaven but it's not /that/ heaven. At least I would hope not. Streets of gold seem kind of tacky to me.
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[SIZE=-1]One can't find the truth if they've already found it.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Edit: sorry for the long post
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