Heaven and Earth passing away - what does this mean?

[ewq1938]

Im struggling a bit to understand why Partial Preterists use the AD 70 events to define the ending of the old covenant. Is that what is being said? If so I respectfully disagree.

Yes that's what some are saying and it's clearly wrong. Christianity has always understood the old covenant was replaced at the cross by the new covenant. It's a pillar of Christianity that now is being challenged.

 

[timothyu]

When Jesus said it is finished He was referring to what was required of Him to bring the Kingdom to fruition. It was His only Gospel after all. He followed the Father's will to a T (something man likes to sidestep with other meanings because man is not a fan of putting the will of the Father before our own).

 

[Messenger 3k]

What about Pentecost?

Who says they celebrated Pentecost?

Do you not realize that those who received the Holy Spirit were the ones who were not celebrating Pentecost?

Those who were celebrating Pentecost were outside. These included native Jews and foreign visitors.

The apostles were in a house.

Pentecost, also known as the feasts of harvests required offering firstfruits of harvests to God at the temple in Jerusalem

Exodus 23:19,

The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God... (KJV)

Now scriptures say when the day of Pentecost had arrived, they were gathered together in a house; not outside observing the feast.

The KJV puts the day as having "fully come", implying it was well into the day for the festival to have begun.

Acts 2:1-2,

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (KJV)

Now before you argue and say, "well they might have finished observing the festival and were back in...", Scripture says it was 9 o'clock in the morning.

Acts 2:15,

You are wrong to think that these people are drunk. After all, it is only nine o'clock in the morning. (CEV)

More so, Jesus didn't instruct them to wait for the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem because of Pentecost, He instructed them to wait for the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem because it was God's plan that the preaching of repentance began at Jerusalem and spread to the gentile nations.

Luke 24:46-47,

He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem..." (NIV)

Again in Acts 1:8,

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you shall be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (MEV)

Also in line with Isaiah 49:6,

"...I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." (KJV)

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I basically agree with your points, but we need to take into account how the whole seventieth week was determined to establish all requirements (all 6 clauses) of the New Covenant.

"Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to (1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6) And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering." (Dan 9:24,27)
​

If we don't take into account the entire 70th week, our argument is left open to questions about the Jewish Pentecost fifty days after the cross, and also the Gentile Pentecost 3.5 years after the cross.

Martin Luther explains this in his sermon on Matthew 24:15-28

"When Christ sent out the Gospel through the ministry of himself and of the Apostles, it lasted three or three and a half years, that it almost amounts to the calculation of Daniel, namely the 490 years. Hence he also says, Christ shall take a half a week, in which the daily offerings shall cease; that is, the priesthood and reign of the Jews shall have an end; which all took place in the three and a half years in which Christ preached, and was almost completed in four years after Christ, in which the Gospel prospered the most, especially in Palestine through the Apostles (that when they opened their mouth, the Holy Ghost fell as it were, from heaven, as we see in the Acts of the Apostles), so that a whole week, or seven years, established the covenant."​

Having said that, Im struggling a bit to understand why Partial Preterists use the AD 70 events to define the ending of the old covenant. Is that what is being said by PP's? If so I respectfully disagree.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Temple was destroyed.

 

[ewq1938]

Temple was destroyed.

And it was raised again 3 days later.

 

[timothyu]

And it was raised again 3 days later.

A perfect example of how some fail to see the divide between world of man and Kingdom as Jesus taught. Some see a stone pile, some see a saviour. Some look for a physical king, some see a messiah of another world. Some see God through the eyes of man, some see us through the eyes of God.

 

[mkgal1]

Who says they celebrated Pentecost?

Do you not realize that those who received the Holy Spirit were the ones who were not celebrating Pentecost?

Those who were celebrating Pentecost were outside. These included native Jews and foreign visitors.

The apostles were in a house.

Pentecost, also known as the feasts of harvests required offering firstfruits of harvests to God at the temple in Jerusalem

Exodus 23:19,

The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God... (KJV)

Now scriptures say when the day of Pentecost had arrived, they were gathered together in a house; not outside observing the feast.

The KJV puts the day as having "fully come", implying it was well into the day for the festival to have begun.

Acts 2:1-2,

And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (KJV)

Now before you argue and say, "well they might have finished observing the festival and were back in...", Scripture says it was 9 o'clock in the morning.

Acts 2:15,

You are wrong to think that these people are drunk. After all, it is only nine o'clock in the morning. (CEV)

More so, Jesus didn't instruct them to wait for the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem because of Pentecost, He instructed them to wait for the Holy Spirit in Jerusalem because it was God's plan that the preaching of repentance began at Jerusalem and spread to the gentile nations.

Luke 24:46-47,

He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem..." (NIV)

Again in Acts 1:8,

But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you shall be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (MEV)

Also in line with Isaiah 49:6,

"...I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." (KJV)

God fulfilled the Feast of Pentecost/Feast of Weeks (Lev 23:15-21) - it's not about who "was celebrating". The Temple was often called "the House of Yahweh" in the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible. Most likely - the upper room mentioned (in Acts 1:13) that the apostles were in was part of the Temple complex.

In Luke 24:5--53: The Ascension
(Mark 16:19-20; Acts 1:6-11)

When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven. And they worshiped Him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, praising God continually in the Temple.

Acts 1:4-5
And while they were gathered together, a He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with b the Holy Spirit.”

In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said: ‘I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but He that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire.'

Quoting Dr. Kim Riddlebarger: Luke has gone to great lengths to list the 120 present in v. 12-14 of chapter 1, and so we probably should assume that this is the same group present here. Luke now describes the fulfillment of our Lord's promise, recorded in Acts 1:8, that "you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses." Here we learn that "suddenly" God entered into their presence on the Day of Pentecost. God indeed poured forth his Holy Spirit in fulfillment of his promise. And those present heard what sounded like a violent wind. They saw what looked like tongues of fire surrounding each one there. They knew the OT. God's glorious presence in the room, produced the same sensory reactions that have always accompanied his presence throughout redemptive history. Promise has now become fulfillment. They knew what these signs meant.

The presence of a violent wind has strong OT significance. Ezekiel (Ez. 37:9-14) prophesied that the Sovereign Lord would blow on the dead bones in the valley of his vision. The very breath of God was breathed into these bones, and those who were slain came to life - a whole vast army of them! In 2 SA 22:16, the breath of God is said to be God's rebuke of the earth. Job gets his answer to the problem of human suffering from the midst of a whirlwind (Job 38). In John 3, Jesus also foretold of such events when he told Nicodemus, that you must be born again (or from above) and that the Spirit is like the wind, blowing wherever it pleases under the control of God's will, not man's.

The second sign of God's supernatural activity is the appearance of what looked liked tongues of fire. John the Baptist had predicted that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire, fire being associated with both cleansing and judgement. What was audible in the wind, was visual in the tongues of fire. All of those present certainly knew the story of the burning bush in Exodus 3:2-5. They knew that God's presence with his people in the desert was marked by the pillar of fire each night. For as the disciples are empowered to be Christ's witnesses, they will soon be called to confront the unbelieving world with the Word of God. And the Word of God always comes with either blessing or with curse. For, as Paul tells us in Romans 1:16-18, the gospel is the revelation of the power of God unto salvation, as well as the revelation of the wrath of God upon sin. This was a time of awe and wonder, as well as a time of holy fear. How can the disciples continue to fear what mere men can do to them, as they have been doing, when they are seeing with their own eyes, the signs of God's judgement evident in the tongues of fire? God is in their midst in great power and the signs of his presence are now manifest in their midst. They must fear God rather than men.

Luke tells us in verse 4 that "all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit." The promises made by John and Jesus were now a reality. The church, the New Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) was born in an instant! Each of the 120 present in that upper room, from the least to the greatest, were "filled" by the blessed Holy Spirit of God. There are a number of things here that we need to mention.

First of all, the birth of the church, stands in direct fulfillment of the temple imagery, first found in Exodus 40. In the words of one writer (M. G. Kline), "The last chapters of Exodus deal with the construction of the tabernacle under the leadership of Moses and the filling of the finished structure by God's Spirit, visibly present in the form of the cloud of glory (Exodus 40). While the resurrection accounts in the gospels record the raising up of the temple of the new covenant in the sense that Jesus himself is that temple, it is beyond the gospels in the Book of Acts that the further [fulfillment] to the conclusion of the Book of Exodus is found. In the Pentecost-event Christ erects the temple of his church and the Holy Spirit fills the house of God (Acts 2:1 ff.)." The earthly temple described by Moses, is now superceded by the glorious temple that Jesus Christ erects; the temple built without hands, which is his body. This temple, which is even now being formed in their very midst, is filled with God's glory through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. ~ http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/e...O2UNJeUHdGU9H--OB_2Cl7Y211xQ6icoKAPcQjMQgyL8k
​

This all happened 50 days after the Feast of First Fruits (His Resurrection) on the Day of the Feast of Pentecost.

Quoting from linked article:
The First ‘Pentecost’ versus the Eschatological Pentecost. The outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost is the eschatological fulfillment of the first ‘Pentecost,’ that is to say, the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai (cf. 2 Cor. 2:14 to 4:6; Heb. 12:18-24).[5] How so? First, both events occurred on/about the same day of the Hebrew calendar: the sixth day of the third month (Sivan). For example, the people of Israel arrived at Sinai “in the third new moon…on that day” (Exod. 19:1). Upon their arrival, the Lord commanded Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments 11and be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people” (Exod. 19:10-11). Thus, it was about the sixth day of the third month when the Lord descended upon Sinai, three days after Israel reached the mountain, the very day established for the future celebration of Pentecost.[6] Second, fire is associated with the theophany at Sinai and that at Pentecost. Regarding Sinai, Exodus 19:18 declares: “Now Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the LORD had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain trembled greatly” [emphasis mine]. Regarding Pentecost, Acts 2:3 states that “tongues as of fire distributing themselves…rested on each one of them” (NASB, cf. Isa. 5:24-25) [emphasis mine]. Interestingly, Philo, the Jewish philosopher, understood the fire of the Sinai theophany as “flame being endowed with articulate speech [i.e. tongues of fire]” in light of Psalm 29:7 (“The voice of the LORD divideth the flames of fire,” KJV).[7]

Third, the events at Sinai typologically parallel those of Pentecost. Just as Moses the Prophet ascended to the summit of Mount Sinai (Exod. 19:20) to receive the Ten Commandments (Exod. 34:28), Jesus Christ, the Prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:15; cf. Acts 3:22; 7:37), ascended to the heavenly Mount Zion (Heb. 12:22) to ‘receive’ the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:33).[8] Whereas the Decalogue was written by the finger of God (Exod. 31:18) on tablets of stone (Exod. 24:12; 2 Cor. 3:7), God’s law was ‘written’ upon believers’ hearts (Jer. 31:33; 2 Cor. 3:3; Heb. 8:10) by the Spirit of God (Ezek. 11:19-20; 36:26-27).[9] Just as Moses interceded for Israel before God (Exod. 32:11-18; 33:12-23), Christ Jesus, our παράκλητον (paraklēton – “advocate;” cf. 1 John 2:1), intercedes for us before His Father (Rom 8:34; 1 John 2:1). Whereas as Moses descended Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments (Exod. 32:15; 34:29) and placed them within the Tabernacle (Exod. 40:20-21), the Holy Spirit, our other παράκλητος (paraklētos – cf. John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7) who also intercedes for us (cf. Rom. 8:26-27), ‘descended’ the heavenly Mount Zion and ‘wrote’ God’s law upon the heart of believers (Jer. 31:33), whose bodies are now temples for the indwelling Holy Spirit (Ezek. 36:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:19). Just as the Tabernacle was constructed (Exod. 36:1-40:33) after the giving of the Law by the Spirit-filled Bezalel and Oholiab (Exod. 35:30-35) and also served as a location in which Yahweh dwelt (Exod. 40:34-38), the Church was formed by the outpouring of the Spirit and serves as “God’s temple” (1 Cor. 3:16), “a dwelling of God in the Spirit” (Eph. 2:22).[10]

Fourth, just as the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai constituted the establishment of the Old Covenant, the outpouring of the Spirit constituted the establishment of the New Covenant. Fifth, a typological contrast exists between the Old and New Covenants with regard to their natures.[11] The Old Covenant was a “ministry of death, carved in letters on stone” (2 Cor. 3:6-7) and a “ministry of condemnation” (2 Cor. 3:9). Shortly after the Old Covenant was ratified, Israel committed spiritual harlotry via the golden calf, which resulted in the deaths of 3,000 Israelites at the hand of the Levites (Exod. 32:28).[12] Contrastingly, the New Covenant is “the ministry of righteousness” (2 Cor. 3:9) and “of the Spirit” who “gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6). When the Spirit was poured out upon believing Jews at Pentecost, 3,000 souls were added to the Church in response to Peter’s sermon (Acts 2:41).[13] Sixth, whereas the enactment of the Old Covenant at Sinai formed national Israel as God’s special covenant people, the enactment of the New Covenant formed the Church as God’s special covenant people. Because Pentecost is the eschatological fulfillment of Mount Sinai, the Church, by virtue of her union to Christ Jesus– the True Israel, stands as the eschatological fulfillment of Israel as the people of God. ~ How did Christ Jesus fulfill the Feast of Pentecost? (Feasts, #6) | Providence Theological Seminary Blog​

I don't understand why a self-proclaimed Christian would argue against God's fulfillment of promises He had made? ​

 

[mkgal1]

If we don't take into account the entire 70th week, our argument is left open to questions about the Jewish Pentecost fifty days after the cross, and also the Gentile Pentecost 3.5 years after the cross.

Having said that, Im struggling a bit to understand why Partial Preterists use the AD 70 events to define the ending of the old covenant. Is that what is being said by PP's? If so I respectfully disagree.

It's not that the destruction of the Temple is within the 70 weeks (that's when the Old Covenant "disappeared" as described in Hebrews 8:13 and Isaiah 51:6 - it was "waxing away"). Jesus declared Herod's Temple officially desolate when He cleansed the Temple the second time (and emphasized that in His lament over Jerusalem - recorded in Matthew 23:38 and Luke 13:35). There were 40 years between Christ's death on the cross and the destruction of the Temple. I've read that 40 years (like the time the Israelites wandered in the desert) signifies a period that separates two distinct epochs. So the destruction of the Temple is a separate - but associated - timeline from Daniel's 70 weeks.

Christian - I agree with how you have your timeline laid out:

 

[mkgal1]

Yes that's what some are saying and it's clearly wrong. Christianity has always understood the old covenant was replaced at the cross by the new covenant. It's a pillar of Christianity that now is being challenged.

The Old Covenant was *obsolete* but hadn't "disappeared" at the cross.


Hebrews was written around 67 A.D. (from what I understand). If it were true that the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant instantly at the cross - then the Council at Jerusalem mentioned in Acts 15 wouldn't have been a difficult issue - Paul would have just said something like "we don't need to recognize anything from the Old Covenant any longer - it's all been replaced by the New Covenant" - instead, we see the disciples honoring things like special hours of prayer in the Temple (in Acts 3) - and coming to the decision that ordinances meant to keep the People of God from idolatry would be adhered to from the Mosaic Law (the decision made at the Council at Jerusalem).

Hebrews 8:13 ~ By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear

Acts 3:1 ~ One afternoon Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour.

Acts 15:1-2 ~
The Dispute over Circumcision
(Genesis 17:9-27; Leviticus 12:1-8; Joshua 5:1-9)

Then some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” So Paul and Barnabas engaged these men in sharp debate. The two of them were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15:5-7 ~
The Council at Jerusalem

But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.

After much discussion...

Acts 15:19-21 ~ It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead, we should write and tell them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood. For Moses [the Law] has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”​

 

[mkgal1]

What Jesus said the night of the Last Supper:

John 17:1-4 ~
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.​

.....but was ALL accomplished? He hadn't even gone to the cross yet (much less resurrected and ascended to heaven).

 

[timothyu]

Holy - (qadosh) to be set apart for a special purpose (not meaning to be righteous) eg. Holy ground

Spirit - (ru'ach) wind (to follow a recommended path) eg Holy Spirit (see Holy)

In the case of the followers of Jesus the path to the Kingdom, the focus of His Gospel.

 

[Messenger 3k]

God fulfilled the Feast of Pentecost

No one said God didn't fulfill the law. I for one never said that. Your error is in refusing to see all was fulfilled on the cross.

it's not about who "was celebrating

Of course it's about who was celebrating. Had the apostles celebrated the feast of Pentecost, you would have used it as proof of a "yet to be fulfilled parts of the law".
Now you dismiss it because I disproved it.

Scripture is clear on these matters,

Colossians 2:16,

Therefore do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days – these are only the shadow of the things to come, but the the reality is Christ! (NET)

For in the era of the old covenant God says,

“...These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me..." Isaiah 29:13 (NIV)

Then through Jesus, God establishes a new covenant, placing the law directly in their hearts.

Hebrews 10:16,

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. (NIV)

That chapter of Hebrews is clear that this happened on the cross.

Most likely - the upper room mentioned (in Acts 1:13) that the apostles were in was part of the Temple complex.

In Luke 24:5--53: The Ascension
(Mark 16:19-20; Acts 1:6-11)

When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven. And they worshiped Him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, praising God continually in the Temple.

There is no concrete reasoning along the line of scriptures to even arrive at a "most likely" conclusion.

Scripture merely said they returned to Jerusalem and continually praised God especially in the temple while waiting in Jerusalem as Jesus instructed.

The temple was not a hotel. There was at most, rooms for those who served in the temple like the priests, not rooms for visitors celebrating a feast.

They merely met at the temple occasionally and praised God.

Acts 2:46-47,

Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favour of all the people... (NIV)

You've taken that scripture and desperately exploded it out of context.

Quoting Dr. Kim Riddlebarger: Luke has gone to great lengths to...

Quoting myself as earlier: "this doesn't concern me", give me scriptures.

The presence of a violent wind has strong OT significance. Ezekiel (Ez. 37:9-14) prophesied that the Sovereign Lord would blow on the dead bones in the valley of his vision. The very breath of God was breathed into these bones, and those who were slain came to life - a whole vast army of them! In 2 SA 22:16, the breath of God is said to be God's rebuke of the earth. Job gets his answer to the problem of human suffering from the midst of a whirlwind (Job 38). In John 3, Jesus also foretold of such events when he told Nicodemus, that you must be born again (or from above) and that the Spirit is like the wind, blowing wherever it pleases under the control of God's will, not man's.

The second sign of God's supernatural activity is the appearance of what looked liked tongues of fire. John the Baptist had predicted that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire, fire being associated with both cleansing and judgement. What was audible in the wind, was visual in the tongues of fire. All of those present certainly knew the story of the burning bush in Exodus 3:2-5. They knew that God's presence with his people in the desert was marked by the pillar of fire each night. For as the disciples are empowered to be Christ's witnesses, they will soon be called to confront the unbelieving world with the Word of God. And the Word of God always comes with either blessing or with curse. For, as Paul tells us in Romans 1:16-18, the gospel is the revelation of the power of God unto salvation, as well as the revelation of the wrath of God upon sin. This was a time of awe and wonder, as well as a time of holy fear. How can the disciples continue to fear what mere men can do to them, as they have been doing, when they are seeing with their own eyes, the signs of God's judgement evident in the tongues of fire? God is in their midst in great power and the signs of his presence are now manifest in their midst. They must fear God rather than men.

Luke tells us in verse 4 that "all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit." The promises made by John and Jesus were now a reality. The church, the New Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) was born in an instant! Each of the 120 present in that upper room, from the least to the greatest, were "filled" by the blessed Holy Spirit of God. There are a number of things here that we need to mention.

First of all, the birth of the church, stands in direct fulfillment of the temple imagery, first found in Exodus 40. In the words of one writer (M. G. Kline), "The last chapters of Exodus deal with the construction of the tabernacle under the leadership of Moses and the filling of the finished structure by God's Spirit, visibly present in the form of the cloud of glory (Exodus 40). While the resurrection accounts in the gospels record the raising up of the temple of the new covenant in the sense that Jesus himself is that temple, it is beyond the gospels in the Book of Acts that the further [fulfillment] to the conclusion of the Book of Exodus is found. In the Pentecost-event Christ erects the temple of his church and the Holy Spirit fills the house of God (Acts 2:1 ff.)." The earthly temple described by Moses, is now superceded by the glorious temple that Jesus Christ erects; the temple built without hands, which is his body. This temple, which is even now being formed in their very midst, is filled with God's glory through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. ~ http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/e...O2UNJeUHdGU9H--OB_2Cl7Y211xQ6icoKAPcQjMQgyL8k
This all happened 50 days after the Feast of First Fruits (His Resurrection) on the Day of the Feast of Pentecost.

Quoting from linked article:
The First ‘Pentecost’ versus the Eschatological Pentecost. The outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost is the eschatological fulfillment of the first ‘Pentecost,’ that is to say, the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai (cf. 2 Cor. 2:14 to 4:6; Heb. 12:18-24).[5] How so? First, both events occurred on/about the same day of the Hebrew calendar: the sixth day of the third month (Sivan). For example, the people of Israel arrived at Sinai “in the third new moon…on that day” (Exod. 19:1). Upon their arrival, the Lord commanded Moses, “Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their garments 11and be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people” (Exod. 19:10-11). Thus, it was about the sixth day of the third month when the Lord descended upon Sinai, three days after Israel reached the mountain, the very day established for the future celebration of Pentecost.[6] Second, fire is associated with the theophany at Sinai and that at Pentecost. Regarding Sinai, Exodus 19:18 declares: “Now Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the LORD had descended on it in fire. The smoke of it went up like the smoke of a kiln, and the whole mountain trembled greatly” [emphasis mine]. Regarding Pentecost, Acts 2:3 states that “tongues as of fire distributing themselves…rested on each one of them” (NASB, cf. Isa. 5:24-25) [emphasis mine]. Interestingly, Philo, the Jewish philosopher, understood the fire of the Sinai theophany as “flame being endowed with articulate speech [i.e. tongues of fire]” in light of Psalm 29:7 (“The voice of the LORD divideth the flames of fire,” KJV).[7]

Third, the events at Sinai typologically parallel those of Pentecost. Just as Moses the Prophet ascended to the summit of Mount Sinai (Exod. 19:20) to receive the Ten Commandments (Exod. 34:28), Jesus Christ, the Prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:15; cf. Acts 3:22; 7:37), ascended to the heavenly Mount Zion (Heb. 12:22) to ‘receive’ the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:33).[8] Whereas the Decalogue was written by the finger of God (Exod. 31:18) on tablets of stone (Exod. 24:12; 2 Cor. 3:7), God’s law was ‘written’ upon believers’ hearts (Jer. 31:33; 2 Cor. 3:3; Heb. 8:10) by the Spirit of God (Ezek. 11:19-20; 36:26-27).[9] Just as Moses interceded for Israel before God (Exod. 32:11-18; 33:12-23), Christ Jesus, our παράκλητον (paraklēton – “advocate;” cf. 1 John 2:1), intercedes for us before His Father (Rom 8:34; 1 John 2:1). Whereas as Moses descended Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments (Exod. 32:15; 34:29) and placed them within the Tabernacle (Exod. 40:20-21), the Holy Spirit, our other παράκλητος (paraklētos – cf. John 14:16, 26; 15:26; 16:7) who also intercedes for us (cf. Rom. 8:26-27), ‘descended’ the heavenly Mount Zion and ‘wrote’ God’s law upon the heart of believers (Jer. 31:33), whose bodies are now temples for the indwelling Holy Spirit (Ezek. 36:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:19). Just as the Tabernacle was constructed (Exod. 36:1-40:33) after the giving of the Law by the Spirit-filled Bezalel and Oholiab (Exod. 35:30-35) and also served as a location in which Yahweh dwelt (Exod. 40:34-38), the Church was formed by the outpouring of the Spirit and serves as “God’s temple” (1 Cor. 3:16), “a dwelling of God in the Spirit” (Eph. 2:22).[10]

Fourth, just as the giving of the Law at Mount Sinai constituted the establishment of the Old Covenant, the outpouring of the Spirit constituted the establishment of the New Covenant. Fifth, a typological contrast exists between the Old and New Covenants with regard to their natures.[11] The Old Covenant was a “ministry of death, carved in letters on stone” (2 Cor. 3:6-7) and a “ministry of condemnation” (2 Cor. 3:9). Shortly after the Old Covenant was ratified, Israel committed spiritual harlotry via the golden calf, which resulted in the deaths of 3,000 Israelites at the hand of the Levites (Exod. 32:28).[12] Contrastingly, the New Covenant is “the ministry of righteousness” (2 Cor. 3:9) and “of the Spirit” who “gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6). When the Spirit was poured out upon believing Jews at Pentecost, 3,000 souls were added to the Church in response to Peter’s sermon (Acts 2:41).[13] Sixth, whereas the enactment of the Old Covenant at Sinai formed national Israel as God’s special covenant people, the enactment of the New Covenant formed the Church as God’s special covenant people. Because Pentecost is the eschatological fulfillment of Mount Sinai, the Church, by virtue of her union to Christ Jesus– the True Israel, stands as the eschatological fulfillment of Israel as the people of God. ~ How did Christ Jesus fulfill the Feast of Pentecost? (Feasts, #6) | Providence Theological Seminary Blog

These all say nothing.

I don't understand why a self-proclaimed Christian would argue against God's fulfillment of promises He had made?

Correction: ...(your interpretation of) God's fulfillment of (the law, not necessarily) promises He had made.

 

[mkgal1]

No one said God didn't fulfill the law. I for one never said that. Your error is in refusing to see all was fulfilled on the cross.

There is specific timing for the Feast days.

The Cross was the fulfillment of the Feast of Passover.

Quoting Michael Krall:
"In Leviticus 27:34 the last verse in the book says this “These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.”

It is in the book of Leviticus that the ceremonial aspects of the law is clearly laid out. In chapter 23 we read of the 7 feast days which is what we hope to focus on in looking at the fulfilling of the law. The 10 commandments, which was the sum and substance of the Old Covenant, Deut 4:13, was a summary of the whole of the words of the covenant. That is what the last verse in Leviticus, as quoted above, is stating. The feast days are important for they foreshadowed the redemptive work of Christ. The Passover was pointing to redemption from Egyptian bondage and the last feast day is the feast of tabernacles or booths and pointed to their entering into the promised land as stated in Leviticus 23:42-43

“Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.”

We cannot stress enough that these feast days were part of the law which Jesus said not one jot and tittle would pass from it till all was fulfilled. Let us buttress this argument by looking at chapter 34 of Exodus starting in verse 1.

We can see from this chapter that the feast days were indeed part of the law that Jesus said would have to be in force till “all is fulfilled”.

Lets look at the 7 feast days and see when they were or will be fulfilled. There were 4 spring feasts and 3 fall feasts. Most commentators agree that the spring feasts point to Christ’s first coming and the fall feasts to his coming and surrounding events. Lets look at them in Leviticus 23.

5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD’S Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Here we have the first 2 feasts Passover and the feast of unleavened bread. The Passover clearly pointed to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. But that is the only feast day that points to the cross so how can the whole of the law be fulfilled at the cross?

The feast of unleavened bread, leaven typifies corruption, pointed to his burial where his body was prophesied to not see corruption Psalm 16:10. this followed the next day in the Jewish calendar as it followed in the fulfillment seeing Christ was not only our Passover 1Cor 5:7 he not only died on Passover but was buried on the feast of unleavened bread.

Next is the feast of first fruits:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

This feast alone should forever put to rest the notion that the law was fulfilled at the cross since it points to the resurrection of Christ, He being the “first fruits of them that slept 1Cor 15:20.” Christ again followed the type to a tee. He was raised on the feast of first fruits Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Again Christ filled the type to a tee.

Next is the feast of weeks which was 50 days from the first fruits:

15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.​

This was obviously fulfilled at Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2. Just as the Spirit was given on Pentecost and the Church was born and 3000 were make spiritually alive in conversion this filled the type to a tee as well. It was on the feast of Pentecost that the nation of Israel was born and 3000 died."

Quoting from linked article:
50th Day After Jesus’ Resurrection, Acts 2:1-41

Acts 2:1-41 –

The day of Pentecost or Shavuot, the late Spring thanksgiving for the first harvest.

Time frame, the 7th Sunday or 50 days or 7 weeks after the resurrection of Jesus. The first weekly Sabbath after Pentecost was called The Feast of First Fruits.

Also, read Leviticus 23:15-22 about the Feast of Weeks or Shavuot and also Leviticus 23:9-14 about the Feast of First Fruits.

A life-changing experience happened: God sent tongues of fire.

Peter’s first sermon out of many. Now he became the spokesman for the group after he had been filled with the Spirit. ~ 50th Day After Jesus’ Resurrection, Acts 2:1-41 | Bibleview


Jesus had presented Himself alive for 40 days after the Resurrection:

Acts 1:3 ~ To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.​

.....and then told them to "wait for the gift the Father promised":

Acts 1:4 ~ And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss.​

.....which brought them to the Day of Pentecost (ten days later - 50 days after His resurrection):

Acts 2:1 ~ And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place,​

 

[mkgal1]

Now you dismiss it because I disproved it.

You've not "disproved" anything that I've posted. You have a lot of Scripture to deal with that's in opposition to what you're arguing. I don't even understand WHY you'd argue against this? When Jesus said to those He'd appeared to for the 40 days after His resurrection - that they were to "wait for the gift the Father promised" - is it NOT reassuring to you that He fulfilled that promise exactly on time?

Does it not speak to you that - on a day that the Jews were to offer a gift to God - that God, instead, gave THEM a gift that He'd promised them? I wonder what causes a person to be so committed to a belief like that - that causes them to deny recorded, fulfilled promises from God?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You've not "disproved" anything that I've posted. You have a lot of Scripture to deal with that's in opposition to what you're arguing.

Hello mkgal
Check out my thread on Isaiah 66 Mark 9.........

Isaiah 66:22-24 " new heavens new earth" "dead bodies" "worm does not die, unquenchable fire"

The new heavens and earth are also used in this passage. Does vs 24 actually mean that all mankind will go out and look at the dead bodies from one New Moon and one Sabbath to another?

Isaiah 66
22“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure.
23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

 

[Messenger 3k]

There is specific timing for the Feast days.

The Cross was the fulfillment of the Feast of Passover.

Quoting Michael Krall:
"In Leviticus 27:34 the last verse in the book says this “These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.”

It is in the book of Leviticus that the ceremonial aspects of the law is clearly laid out. In chapter 23 we read of the 7 feast days which is what we hope to focus on in looking at the fulfilling of the law. The 10 commandments, which was the sum and substance of the Old Covenant, Deut 4:13, was a summary of the whole of the words of the covenant. That is what the last verse in Leviticus, as quoted above, is stating. The feast days are important for they foreshadowed the redemptive work of Christ. The Passover was pointing to redemption from Egyptian bondage and the last feast day is the feast of tabernacles or booths and pointed to their entering into the promised land as stated in Leviticus 23:42-43

“Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.”

We cannot stress enough that these feast days were part of the law which Jesus said not one jot and tittle would pass from it till all was fulfilled. Let us buttress this argument by looking at chapter 34 of Exodus starting in verse 1.

We can see from this chapter that the feast days were indeed part of the law that Jesus said would have to be in force till “all is fulfilled”.

Lets look at the 7 feast days and see when they were or will be fulfilled. There were 4 spring feasts and 3 fall feasts. Most commentators agree that the spring feasts point to Christ’s first coming and the fall feasts to his coming and surrounding events. Lets look at them in Leviticus 23.

5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD’S Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Here we have the first 2 feasts Passover and the feast of unleavened bread. The Passover clearly pointed to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. But that is the only feast day that points to the cross so how can the whole of the law be fulfilled at the cross?

The feast of unleavened bread, leaven typifies corruption, pointed to his burial where his body was prophesied to not see corruption Psalm 16:10. this followed the next day in the Jewish calendar as it followed in the fulfillment seeing Christ was not only our Passover 1Cor 5:7 he not only died on Passover but was buried on the feast of unleavened bread.

Next is the feast of first fruits:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

This feast alone should forever put to rest the notion that the law was fulfilled at the cross since it points to the resurrection of Christ, He being the “first fruits of them that slept 1Cor 15:20.” Christ again followed the type to a tee. He was raised on the feast of first fruits Lev 23:11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Again Christ filled the type to a tee.

Next is the feast of weeks which was 50 days from the first fruits:

15 ¶ And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

This was obviously fulfilled at Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2. Just as the Spirit was given on Pentecost and the Church was born and 3000 were make spiritually alive in conversion this filled the type to a tee as well. It was on the feast of Pentecost that the nation of Israel was born and 3000 died."

Quoting from linked article:
50th Day After Jesus’ Resurrection, Acts 2:1-41

Acts 2:1-41 –

The day of Pentecost or Shavuot, the late Spring thanksgiving for the first harvest.

Time frame, the 7th Sunday or 50 days or 7 weeks after the resurrection of Jesus. The first weekly Sabbath after Pentecost was called The Feast of First Fruits.

Also, read Leviticus 23:15-22 about the Feast of Weeks or Shavuot and also Leviticus 23:9-14 about the Feast of First Fruits.

A life-changing experience happened: God sent tongues of fire.

Peter’s first sermon out of many. Now he became the spokesman for the group after he had been filled with the Spirit. ~ 50th Day After Jesus’ Resurrection, Acts 2:1-41 | Bibleview


Jesus had presented Himself alive for 40 days after the Resurrection:

Acts 1:3 ~ To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God......and then told them to "wait for the gift the Father promised":

Acts 1:4 ~ And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss.
.....which brought them to the Day of Pentecost (ten days later - 50 days after His resurrection):

Acts 2:1 ~ And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place,

Stop recycling lengthy posts that say nothing but include scriptures jumbled without clear understanding of what they mean.

Take those scriptures and align them for me in buttressing your interpretation.

Your argument is faulty and utterly disjointed. And I've shown this several times by countering your erroneous views with clear and concise scriptural alignment.

First, you premised your argument on the irony that the Holy Spirit was received on the day of Pentecost. Then I showed up and destroyed that idea by showing proving the apostles weren't celebrating Pentecost.

Infact, the irony worthy of note in that scripture was the fact that the apostles were mocked as being drunk with new wine. Whereas new wine is scripturally symbolic for the Holy Spirit, which is what Jesus was referring to in Mark 2:22,

And no one pours new wine (the Holy Spirit) into old wineskins (old heart/spirit). Otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins (renewed heart/spirit from being saved)." (NIV)

I bet you didn't know that.

But I'm the one who's arguing off target.

 

[mkgal1]

Hebrews 10:16,

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. (NIV)

That chapter of Hebrews is clear that this happened on the cross.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 ~ A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Acts 2:4 ~ Then all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:14-17 ~ The apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, so they sent Peter and John to them. When Peter and John came down to Samaria, they prayed that the people might receive the Holy Spirit. As yet the Spirit had fallen on none of them —they had only been baptized in the name of Christ Jesus. So Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.”​

 

[mkgal1]

First, you premised your argument on the irony that the Holy Spirit was received on the day of Pentecost. Then I showed up and destroyed that idea by showing proving the apostles weren't celebrating Pentecost.

Apparently God was "celebrating Pentecost" has been my point.

 

[Messenger 3k]

Apparently God was "celebrating Pentecost" has been my point.

Lol. Okay.