Isaiah 66:22-24 " new heavens new earth" "dead bodies" "worm does not die, unquenchable fire"

[LittleLambofJesus]

Has anyone studied on Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9 concerning the gehenna of fire where he worn doesn't die and fire isn't quenched?

Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Mark 9:43 `And if thy hand may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee maimed to be entering into the life, than having the two hands to go away to the gehenna, to the fire--the unquenchable-- 44 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
45 `And if thy foot may cause thee to stumble, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into the life lame, than having the two feet to be cast to the gehenna, to the fire--the unquenchable-- 46 where there worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
47 And if thine eye may cause thee to stumble, cast it out; it is better for thee one-eyed to enter into the reign of God, than having two eyes, to be cast to the gehenna of the fire-- 48 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched;
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How do others view these videos on the gehenna and worm does no die.

 

[dqhall]

Some parasitic worms ravaged the flesh. Sometimes the worms won. Modern medicine discovered anti-worm medicines.

I suppose many fires in California have been quenched. For some there was no fire department to rescue them.

Those who obey Christ will be saved.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Some cross references to other Biblical passages concerning Isaiah 66:24 Mark 9:43-47

Isaiah 66:24 biblehub

Cross References

Matthew 3:12
His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Mark 9:48
where 'their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.'

Psalm 110:6
He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead; He will crush the leaders far and wide.

Isaiah 1:28
But rebels and sinners will together be shattered, and those who forsake the LORD will perish.
Isaiah 1:31
The strong man will become tinder and his work will be a spark; both will burn together, with no one to quench the flames.
Isaiah 5:25
Therefore the LORD's anger burns against His people; He has raised His hand against them and struck them; the mountains quaked, and their corpses lay like refuse in the streets. Yet through all this, His anger is not spent, and His hand is still upraised.
Isaiah 14:11
Your pomp has been brought down to Sheol, with the music of your harps. Maggots spread out beneath you, and worms cover you.
Isaiah 24:20
The earth staggers like a drunkard and sways like a shack. Earth's rebellion weighs it down, and it falls, never to rise again.
Isaiah 26:11
O LORD, Your hand is upraised, but they do not see it. They will see Your zeal for Your people, and be put to shame. The fire set for Your enemies will consume them!
Isaiah 34:3
Their slain will be left unburied, and the stench of their corpses will rise; the mountains will flow with their blood.
Isaiah 34:10
It will not be quenched--day or night. Its smoke will ascend forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.
Isaiah 51:8
For the moth will devour them like a garment, and the worm will eat them like wool. But My righteousness will last forever, My salvation through all generations.

Ezekiel 39:9
Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out, kindle fires, and burn the weapons--the bucklers and shields, the bows and arrows, the clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.

Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

and look

Isaiah 66:16
For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Psalm 58:10,11
The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked…

Ezekiel 39:9-16
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: …

their worm

Isaiah 14:11
Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Mark 9:44-49
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched…

Revelation 14:10,11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: …

their fire

Isaiah 34:10
It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

and they

Isaiah 65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thessalonians 2:15,16
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: …
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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ........................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. ......
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Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together<1996>.'

Revelation 19
17 And I perceived one messenger standing in the sun, and he cries-out in great voice, saying to all the birds, the ones flying in mid-heaven, "hither! be ye being gathered!<4863> into the Supper of the Great God.
18 That ye may be eating fleshes of kings......[Zeph 1:17/Ezekiel 39:19]
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Buzzards gotta eat! same as worms!!!!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The new heavens and earth are also used in this passage. Does vs 24 actually mean the all mankind will go out and look at the dead bodies from one New Moon and one Sabbath to another?

Isaiah 66
22“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure.
23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

 

[DavidPT]

The new heavens and earth are also used in this passage. Does vs 24 actually mean the all mankind will go out and look at the dead bodies from one New Moon and one Sabbath to another?

Isaiah 66
22“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure.
23From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

24“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Actually this is where Reveletion 20 might help us to make sense of some of these things. If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, and the fact these in Isaiah 66 are looking at this post the 2nd coming, these must be meaning some or all of those left of the nations which came against Jerusalem(Zechariah 14:16-19).

Why might they be looking on these post the 2nd coming? According to Revelation 20 there is a rebellion after the thousand years. So by looking upon these at the beginning of the thousand years, this serves as a fair warning, that if any of them end up transgressing against the LORD as well, what happened to these they are looking upon, will be their fate as well.

But if not any of that, what would be the logic in immortal saints, in the next age, looking upon those that transgressed the Lord in this age? After all, if there are no mortals remaining alive post the 2nd coming, this indicates everyone on the planet would consist of no one but saved saints who have put on immortality at the last trump.

 

[mkgal1]

Actually this is where Reveletion 20 might help us to make sense of some of these things

Beginning from Revelation - in order to try to gain some insight - seems backwards to me. IMO - it makes much more sense to begin in the Old Testament and allow what's written there to inform us about Revelation (and the New Testament, in general).

 

[DavidPT]

Beginning from Revelation - in order to try to gain some insight - seems backwards to me. IMO - it makes much more sense to begin in the Old Testament and allow what's written there to inform us about Revelation (and the New Testament, in general).

Let's start here then.

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Do you see this as a literal event, but not where it might involve literal swords, but meaning that the slain of the LORD shall be many, as in there will be many people killed because of this coming of the LORD? If you take this as a literal event, when do you assume it took place, or when will it take place, assuming you don't already think it has?

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

I would think, in verse 24, the ones they look upon, are the same ones in Isaiah 66:16.

What needs to be determined first is what I initially asked you, in regards to verse 15 and 16. Then based on that, we at least know verse 24 is meaning pretty much immedietely after the fulfillment of verse 15 and 16.

 

[mkgal1]

Isaiah 65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

It seems like this verse offers the most context. Look back at verse 7

Isaiah 65:7-15 ~ your sins and the sins of your ancestors as well, says the LORD. Since they burned incense on the mountains, and mocked me in the hills, I will count out to them full payment for their actions.

The LORD proclaims: As new wine is found in the grape cluster, and someone says, "Don't destroy it, for there is a blessing in it," so I will do for the sake of my servants and not destroy everything:

9 I will bring out offspring from Jacob, and from Judah, heirs to my mountains. My chosen ones will take possession; my servants will dwell there.
10 Sharon will become a pasture for sheep, and the Achor Valley a resting place for cattle, for my people who seek me.
11 But you who abandon the LORD, who forget my holy mountain, who set a table for a god of good fortune, and fill cups of mixed wine for a god of fate:
12 I will offer you to the sword. You will all bow down for slaughter, because I called and you didn't answer; I spoke and you wouldn't hear. You did what I considered evil, and chose what I didn't want.
13 Therefore, the LORD God says: Look, my servants will eat, but you will hunger. My servants will drink, but you will thirst. My servants will rejoice, but you will be ashamed.
14 My servants will sing with contented hearts, but you will cry out from heartache; with broken spirits you will wail.
15 You will leave your name behind for my chosen ones to curse: "May the LORD God kill you! May he call his servants by a different name!"

Quoting from A New Day Dawning: “If you read Isaiah 65 and 66, you will notice that, before God creates the new heavens and a new earth, God predicted that Israel would fill the measure of her sin (65:7); he would destroy them (65:8-15; 66:3-6,15-18,24); create a new people with a new name (65:15-16); then create a new heaven and earth with a new Jerusalem (65:17-19). When God created the new heavens and earth, notice that physical death will remain (Isa. 65:20, 66:24), home construction and agriculture will continue (Isa. 65:21-22), we will have descendants (Isa. 65:23, 66:22), the Lord will hear their prayers (Isa. 65:24), there will still be sin (Isa. 65:20, Mat.12:32, Rev.22:15 ), and it is depicted as a time of evangelism when the Jew and Gentile will be brought together under the banner of God (66:19). The new heavens and earth, therefore, cannot be referring to the eternal state; it must be referring to a period in man's history. This is the period of the Kingdom of God which Christ rules in the hearts of the believers. The Kingdom of God is made without hands (spiritual - Dan. 2:34, 44-45; c.f. Col. 2:10-11).” ~ The 3 Heaven and Earth Systems — A New Day Dawning

​

 

[mkgal1]

Let's start here then.

Isaiah 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Go back a little further in the passage - so we know what "for, behold" is there for.

Isaiah 66:5-13 ~ Hear the word of the Lord, You who tremble at His word: “Your brethren who hated you, who cast you out for My name’s sake, said, ‘Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy.’ But they shall be ashamed.” 6 The sound of noise from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the Lord, who fully repays His enemies! 7 “Before she was in labor, she gave birth; before her pain came, she delivered a male child. 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children. 9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the Lord. “Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God. 10 “Rejoice with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all you who love her; rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her; 11 that you may feed and be satisfied with the consolation of her bosom, that you may drink deeply and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.” 12 For thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; on her sides shall you be carried, and be dandled on her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
​

Verse 5: This is clearly the Lord’s comfort for those who would be persecuted, hated, and cast out for His sake. Albert Barnes (1834), John Gill (1763), and Matthew Henry (1710) all taught that Isaiah was referring to the first century when Jesus, the apostles, and the early church preached the gospel and were opposed by the religious leaders of Israel.

Verse 6: Noise and a voice are heard from the city and the temple, and the voice is the Lord’s as He repays His enemies. Who are His enemies here? The text doesn’t say, at least not explicitly. However, if verse 5 is about the religious (temple) authorities persecuting the followers of Christ, then they are the enemies being repaid here at the time of the temple’s downfall; and Matthew 23 and I Thessalonians 1 also foretell this event:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! …you are sons of those who murdered the prophets… I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth… all these things will come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:29-36).

“For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost” (I Thessalonians 2:14-16).

Verses 7-8: Isaiah sees a woman, identified as Zion (verse 8), in labor. She delivers “a male child” (verse 7) and gives birth to “children” (verse 8). A nation is born “in one day” and “at once” (verse 8). Matthew Poole (1683) and John Gill (1763) are among those who taught that Isaiah foretold what would happen on the day of Pentecost, when 3000 Jews heard Peter preach the gospel and believed (Acts 2:41).

Verses 9-11: For those who love Jerusalem, this birthing is cause for rejoicing (verse 10). They are invited to “feed and be satisfied with the consolation of her bosom” and to “drink deeply and be delighted with the abundance of her glory” (verse 11).

Verses 12-13: This woman is given “peace like a river,” and she is filled with “the glory of the Gentiles” (verse 12). [Interestingly, those who insist that this is a prophecy of Israel becoming a nation in 1948 are often fixated on the goal of “a Jewish state,” and sound as if they would be happy to see each and every non-Jew exiled from Israel. The Jerusalem Isaiah saw would be marked by the glory of Gentiles – of Gentiles finding salvation in Christ.] Those who feed from this woman would be carried on her sides and dandled on her knees. God would comfort them in Jerusalem as one is comforted by his own mother. ~ https://adammaarschalk.com/2014/04/18/galatians-4-shows-that-isaiah-66-is-not-about-modern-israel/







​

 

[DavidPT]

The new heavens and earth, therefore, cannot be referring to the eternal state; it must be referring to a period in man's history. This is the period of the Kingdom of God which Christ rules in the hearts of the believers.

So many things contradict this though. For example, the idea of sheep and wolves living in peace among one another in this age is ludicrous. In the animal kingdom currently sheep and wolves are mortal enemies, they don't live in peace with one another, period. In the spiritual world the same is also true of sheep and wolves, that they are not at peace with each other, as some of the following passages clearly shows.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves
.
Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Luke 10:3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.


There is no such concept in this age after the fall that happened in the beginning, where sheep and wolves are living among each other in peace. It's not true in the animal kingdom, and it's not true in the spiritual kingdom, therefore the NHNE meant in Isaiah 65-66 is obviously speaking of a time that is yet to arrive, a time we are still waiting for.

 

[mkgal1]

So many things contradict this though. For example, the idea of sheep and wolves living in peace among one another in this age is ludicrous. In the animal kingdom currently sheep and wolves are mortal enemies, they don't live in peace with one another, period. In the spiritual world the same is also true of sheep and wolves, that they are not at peace with each other, as some of the following passages clearly shows.

From Adam Maarshchalk:
While this is not true in the animal kingdom, it is most certainly true in Christ, for His Church. I’m referring, of course, to two well-known parallel passages in Isaiah 11 and Isaiah 65:

[Isaiah 11:1-10] There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit… The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious.

[Isaiah 65:25] “The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.

On what authority do I say that this is a present reality? The authority I stand on is the New Testament, which interprets the Old Testament far better than I ever could. Specifically, I would point to the testimony of the apostle Paul in Romans 15. The short study that follows already exists on this blog, but it’s buried in a longer post regarding Revelation 20 and the millennium. It’s a valuable study, so I’d like to re-post it here on its own. Terry Cropper has also posted this study on his “New Jerusalem Community” site (at this link). As Terry says, “Seven centuries before the birth of Jesus Christ, the prophet Isaiah peered into the future and depicted the glorious nature of the Messianic era with these words.” Here’s the study as it appears on Terry’s site:

In what sense is the wolf now dwelling with the lamb (Isaiah 11:6), the cow and the bear grazing together (verse 7), the nursing child playing over the hole of the cobra (verse 8), and the earth full of the knowledge of the Lord (verse 9)? Good question—let’s ask the apostle Paul. He quoted the next verse as being fulfilled in his own lifetime: “IN THAT DAY the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of Him shall the nations inquire, and His resting place shall be glorious” (Isaiah 11:10). Romans 15:12, where Paul cites this verse, reads this way: “The root of Jesse will come, even He who arises to rule the Gentiles, in Him will the Gentiles hope” (Romans 15:12).

The context of both Isaiah 11 and Romans 15 suggests a bringing together in Christ the remnant of God’s people from among both the Jews and the Gentiles. Isaiah uses figurative language; Paul in Romans is more straightforward. Why not? The “mystery of God” spoken of by the prophets had been revealed and was about to be fulfilled in Paul’s day (compare Ephesians 3:6 with Revelation 10:7).

“This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (Eph. 3:6). There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ Jesus (Romans 10:12-13; Galatians 3:28, 5:6, 6:15-16); “the dividing wall of hostility” has been broken down (Eph. 2:14).

The wolf (Gentiles), so to speak, now dwells safely with the lamb (Jews), i.e. among those who belong to Christ. The Gentile nations which were deceived and dwelling “far off” (Ephesians 2:11-22; Romans 9:22-26) prior to Christ’s work on the cross are now brought near (so that without distinction “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”; Romans 10:12-13).

To expand a little bit on this, Paul states in Romans 15:8 his purpose for quoting Isaiah 11:10 four verses later in Romans 15:12.

For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy.

Clearly, then, Isaiah’s prophecy was confirmed (fulfilled) when Jesus came to earth to be a servant even to the point of going to the cross on our behalf. This also brought about a great harvest among the Gentiles. Isaiah 11 goes on to immediately say this:

In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, fromHamath, and from the coastlands of the sea.

Did this not occur on Pentecost, when Jews from “every nation under heaven” were gathered to hear the gospel preached through the mouth of Peter? ~ Romans 15 Shows That Isaiah 11 Is Fulfilled

 

[DavidPT]

Go back a little further in the passage - so we know what "for, behold" is there for.

Isaiah 66:5-13 ~ Hear the word of the Lord, You who tremble at His word: “Your brethren who hated you, who cast you out for My name’s sake, said, ‘Let the Lord be glorified, that we may see your joy.’ But they shall be ashamed.” 6 The sound of noise from the city! A voice from the temple! The voice of the Lord, who fully repays His enemies! 7 “Before she was in labor, she gave birth; before her pain came, she delivered a male child. 8 Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children. 9 Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the Lord. “Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb?” says your God. 10 “Rejoice with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all you who love her; rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her; 11 that you may feed and be satisfied with the consolation of her bosom, that you may drink deeply and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.” 12 For thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; on her sides shall you be carried, and be dandled on her knees. 13 As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
​

Verse 5: This is clearly the Lord’s comfort for those who would be persecuted, hated, and cast out for His sake. Albert Barnes (1834), John Gill (1763), and Matthew Henry (1710) all taught that Isaiah was referring to the first century when Jesus, the apostles, and the early church preached the gospel and were opposed by the religious leaders of Israel.

Verse 6: Noise and a voice are heard from the city and the temple, and the voice is the Lord’s as He repays His enemies. Who are His enemies here? The text doesn’t say, at least not explicitly. However, if verse 5 is about the religious (temple) authorities persecuting the followers of Christ, then they are the enemies being repaid here at the time of the temple’s downfall; and Matthew 23 and I Thessalonians 1 also foretell this event:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! …you are sons of those who murdered the prophets… I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth… all these things will come upon this generation” (Matthew 23:29-36).

“For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost” (I Thessalonians 2:14-16).

Verses 7-8: Isaiah sees a woman, identified as Zion (verse 8), in labor. She delivers “a male child” (verse 7) and gives birth to “children” (verse 8). A nation is born “in one day” and “at once” (verse 8). Matthew Poole (1683) and John Gill (1763) are among those who taught that Isaiah foretold what would happen on the day of Pentecost, when 3000 Jews heard Peter preach the gospel and believed (Acts 2:41).

Verses 9-11: For those who love Jerusalem, this birthing is cause for rejoicing (verse 10). They are invited to “feed and be satisfied with the consolation of her bosom” and to “drink deeply and be delighted with the abundance of her glory” (verse 11).

Verses 12-13: This woman is given “peace like a river,” and she is filled with “the glory of the Gentiles” (verse 12). [Interestingly, those who insist that this is a prophecy of Israel becoming a nation in 1948 are often fixated on the goal of “a Jewish state,” and sound as if they would be happy to see each and every non-Jew exiled from Israel. The Jerusalem Isaiah saw would be marked by the glory of Gentiles – of Gentiles finding salvation in Christ.] Those who feed from this woman would be carried on her sides and dandled on her knees. God would comfort them in Jerusalem as one is comforted by his own mother. ~ https://adammaarschalk.com/2014/04/18/galatians-4-shows-that-isaiah-66-is-not-about-modern-israel/







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In Isaiah 66 it could be possible that it speaks of more than one time period. Maybe some of it does involve the first century. I can for sure see some of it maybe fitting it. But as to verse 15 and 16, and verse24, I don't see any of that fitting that time period. And the fact there is more that one coming, why can't some of it involve the 2nd coming, plus events post the 2nd coming? Why do some tend to think very little to nothing in the OT involves the 2nd coming nor a time post the 2nd coming?

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring(dra'own) unto all flesh.


On a side note----abhorring in this verse is dra'own according to Strong's, and is only used in 2 passages total. The other passage being---

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt(dra'own).


If there is a connection here, and I'm thinking there likely is in some manner or another, that would indicate Isaiah 66:24 can't be meaning before the fulfillment of Daniel 12:2.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually this is where Reveletion 20 might help us to make sense of some of these things. If the thousand years are after the 2nd coming, and the fact these in Isaiah 66 are looking at this post the 2nd coming, these must be meaning some or all of those left of the nations which came against Jerusalem(Zechariah 14:16-19).

Why might they be looking on these post the 2nd coming? According to Revelation 20 there is a rebellion after the thousand years. So by looking upon these at the beginning of the thousand years, this serves as a fair warning, that if any of them end up transgressing against the LORD as well, what happened to these they are looking upon, will be their fate as well.

But if not any of that, what would be the logic in immortal saints, in the next age, looking upon those that transgressed the Lord in this age? After all, if there are no mortals remaining alive post the 2nd coming, this indicates everyone on the planet would consist of no one but saved saints who have put on immortality at the last trump.

Beginning from Revelation - in order to try to gain some insight - seems backwards to me. IMO - it makes much more sense to begin in the Old Testament and allow what's written there to inform us about Revelation (and the New Testament, in general).

As long as one knows that Revelation cannot be fully interpreted without using the Old Testament...........
I have a thread on the allusions in Revelation from the OT is others are interested.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament

I find this person's view concerning the "allusions" found in the book of Revelation that are found in the Old Testament/Covenant rather fascinating.
Would anyone like to put down verses from Revelation and the verses from the OT/OC that are "alluded" to? I think that would be enjoyable and edifying. Thanks

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source!
That's IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!
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Here are some of the ones I have come up with. Please feel free to add or comment on them.

Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Books in Daniel Daniel 7:9 and 11:10.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Cried and joy Temple/City: Ezra 3:12,13 and Reve 18:18, 19:4
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Ear to hear: Isaiah 6:9,10 and Matt 13:15, Reve 2,3,13
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Eat the book Ezekiel 3:1-3 Revelation 10:9-10
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Holy Holy Holy Isaiah 6:6 and Revelation 4:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Jericho, Priest and Trumpets: Joshua 6:4, Hebrews 11:30, Matt 24:31, Reve 8:6
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Lift hands to heaven and swore..: Daniel 2:7 and Reve 10:5
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Light Revelation to Israel and Nations: Isaiah 9:2, Luke 2:32, Reve 1:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah, fire falling, as is also seen in Revelation.
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Moses and Elijah
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Mountain of fire cast into Sea
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Pierced: Zech 12:10 and Reve 1:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sacrifice/Supper of God: Ezek 39:17 and Reve 19:17
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sanctuary/Tabernacle filled with smoke
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Silence/Hush: Zech 1:7, 2:13 and Reve 8:1
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Sodom and Egypt: Matt 2:15, Reve 11:8
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Song of Moses: Exodus 15:1 and Revelation 15:3
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Spirit lifting, taking Ezekiel and John
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Stars 7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Tree of Life and Garden: Genesis 3:24 and Reve 2:7
Allusions in Revelation from Old Testament
Whip.........Nahum 3:2, John 2:15,

 

[DavidPT]

/Nm