Hearing voices - mental illness vs supernatural phenomena?

[JohnClay]

@jacks
Thanks well I asked Copilot about that kind of thing:

are there any examples of God talking to a crowd in the old testament?

Indeed, there are several instances in the Old Testament where God speaks directly to a group of people. Here are a couple of notable examples:

Mount Sinai (Exodus 19-20): One of the most famous instances is when God speaks to the Israelites at Mount Sinai. He delivers the Ten Commandments to Moses in the presence of the people. The crowd hears God's voice and witnesses thunder, lightning, and the sound of a trumpet, creating a dramatic and awe-inspiring scene.

Deuteronomy (Deuteronomy 5): In this book, Moses recounts how God spoke to the Israelites from the midst of the fire on the mountain. He reminds them of the covenant and the commandments that were given to them directly by God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

A prayer (or command) of faith may deliver a believer or an unbeliever. Knowledge of whether the voices started or increased due to medication might be helpful (medicine often causes the voices or increases the problems).

Most of my voices came from lyrics I had heard or books I had read, but the drug use increased my vulnerability to such intrusions.

The Holy Spirit pinpointed the source and taught me how to deal with it.

For example whenever it rained I would sense conflict - until I was inspired to recall the well know lyric "you shall hear the sounds of war in a gentle shower of rain" Bingo... I immediately saw the connection and declared against it in Jesus Name - never had a re-occurrence since in 50 years.

I had a major voice that was like a narrator always observing and giving me a running commentary on my actions. Again the Spirit caused me to recall a book I had read called the Sociological Consciousness by Peter Berger which recommended becoming impassionate to events around you - disconnection from personal emotion, creating a disconnected self.

Immediately I saw the source and renounced the practice, I spoke against the source and Bingo... Voice gone for good.

Some of the 'flash backs' required persistent refusal over time and gradually disappeared.

I learned that He not only defeated the enemy but also removed the memory of them. This opened up understanding about the healing of memories and the power and importance of forgiveness.

 

[soldier of light]

Most of my voices came from lyrics had heard or books I had read, but the drug use increased my vulnerability to such intrusions.

The Holy Spirit pinpointed the source and taught me how to deal with it.

For example whenever it rained I would sense conflict - until I was inspired to recall the well know lyric "you shall hear the sounds of war in a gentle shower of rain" Bingo... I immediately saw the connection and declared against it in Jesus Name - never had a re-occurrence since in 50 years.

I had a major voice that was like a narrator always observing and giving me a running commentary on my actions. Again the Spirit caused me to recall a book I had read called the Sociological Consciousness by Peter Berger which recommended becoming impassionate to events around you - disconnection from personal emotion, creating a disconnected self.

Immediately I saw the source and renounced the practice, I spoke against the source and Bingo... Voice gone for good.

Some of the 'flash backs' required persistent refusal over time and gradually disappeared.

I learned that He not only defeated the enemy but also removed the memory of them. This opened up understanding about the healing of memories and the power and importance of forgiveness.

Sounds like my psychosis

 

[soldier of light]

I thought I had demons fighting against me. I thought i was in a dark pit too. I prefer to think it's psychosis because frankly it scares me. Not the pit but the demons. Sometimes I think it's God's angry voice. That's scary too. So I actually hope it's psychosis. But I have joy, love and peace now. So I don't know what to make of the voices. Sometimes the voice warms my heart with kindness. It's very confusing.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I thought I had demons fighting against me. I thought i was in a dark pit too. I prefer to think it's psychosis because frankly it scares me. Not the pit but the demons. Sometimes I think it's God's angry voice. That's scary too. So I actually hope it's psychosis. But I have joy, love and peace now. So I don't know what to make of the voices. Sometimes the voice warms my heart with kindness. It's very confusing.

PM me if you want to chat about it, I may be able to help.

 

[tturt]

In addition to determining the source, another major consideration is the purpose.

Also, another Biblical example of others hearing God's voice at the same time is from Acts 9 "Then Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked letters from him to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem." Then God spoke with multiple results. "And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one." Though Saul was the only one addressed by Yeshua.

Further in that chapter, the Lord confirmed to Ananias what He had already communicated to Saul.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If someone is hearing voices is that evidence of God/demons or could it just be a brain that is malfunctioning? Is it always the supernatural or always the brain malfunctioning or could it be a mixture? How can people tell the difference?
I guess whenever it happens in the Bible believers would say it involved God, etc, and it wasn't a mental illness - though the Bible sometimes talks about "crazy" people.

The brain is a complex organ. It doesn't necessarily need to be mental illness or supernatural. How many times have any of us thought we heard someone saying our name, but nobody said anything? That doesn't mean we are ill, or that there is anything supernatural--the brain does weird things all on its own.

Now, if someone is hearing voices a lot, so much so that it is a problem, then the most likely culprit is mental illness.

If someone is hearing voices, but all medical effort rules out a psychological or physiological cause; that is to say, if there really is something supernatural, at that point (and only at that point really) should we be concerned of some kind of spiritual delusion and diabolical attack.

The alternative, that it's God, is so utterly remote that it is almost not worth considering at all. That said, we cannot rule it out 100% altogether--but anything that would create spiritual harm is not of God, and anything that lies is not of God.

But way, way, way, way before we even start talking about a supernatural cause, the most clear and obvious thing is that it's purely psychosomatic, a product of one's own brain.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Carl Emerson]

The brain is a complex organ. It doesn't necessarily need to be mental illness or supernatural. How many times have any of us thought we heard someone saying our name, but nobody said anything? That doesn't mean we are ill, or that there is anything supernatural--the brain does weird things all on its own.

Now, if someone is hearing voices a lot, so much so that it is a problem, then the most likely culprit is mental illness.

If someone is hearing voices, but all medical effort rules out a psychological or physiological cause; that is to say, if there really is something supernatural, at that point (and only at that point really) should we be concerned of some kind of spiritual delusion and diabolical attack.

The alternative, that it's God, is so utterly remote that it is almost not worth considering at all. That said, we cannot rule it out 100% altogether--but anything that would create spiritual harm is not of God, and anything that lies is not of God.

But way, way, way, way before we even start talking about a supernatural cause, the most clear and obvious thing is that it's purely psychosomatic, a product of one's own brain.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesus repeatedly dealt with symptoms we would classify as illnesses, as spiritual intrusions.

 

[tturt]

Looking at Acts 9 again, God communicated with Ananias and Saul through visions and told them instructions.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The alternative, that it's God, is so utterly remote that it is almost not worth considering at all.

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

For the believer, hearing God is normative.

 

[ViaCrucis]

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

For the believer, hearing God is normative.

We hear the Lord where He speaks. Through the Gospel, in the Scriptures, in the Sacraments, through the preaching and teaching of His Church.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Carl Emerson]

We hear the Lord where He speaks. Through the Gospel, in the Scriptures, in the Sacraments, through the preaching and teaching of His Church.

-CryptoLutheran

He speaks within - this is fundamental to the indwelling presence of the Spirit, given to those who truely love Him.

See how Jesus went on to argue this point...

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

The same argument is being made today against those who have the indwelling presence of the Spirit and evidence His work in their lives.

 

[ViaCrucis]

He speaks within - this is fundamental to the indwelling presence of the Spirit, given to those who truely love Him.

See how Jesus went on to argue this point...

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.” 39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.

The same argument is being made today against those who have the indwelling presence of the Spirit and evidence His work in their lives.

I'm not seeing how that passage speaks to hearing the literal voice of God.

If the argument is that through the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, our conscience is being shaped by the Spirit, and thus as we grow in Christ our conscience is likewise growing to be defined by Christ--therefore, the conscience when informed by God's word and quicked by the Holy Spirit is trustworthy, ergo our own inner "voice" that cautions, or encourages, or says "that's right" or "that's wrong" is something we should listen to--and that God "speaks" to us in this way, by causing us to grow in Christ and learn the way of Christ so that our conscience becomes a reliable guide--I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

But I'm unaware of anything in Scripture that promises that we should have direct unmediated experience of God as an internalized voice. Everything in Scripture speaks of the mediated experience of God, God working through Means, and that the Holy Spirit uses these Means to bring us faith, strengthen our faith, hold us in faith, and keep us in Christ--encouraging us, working within us, to do good works and live godly lives of service.

It's because the Holy Spirit lives in us that when the Scriptures are read, we hear Christ; or when the Gospel is preached we hear Christ, or when we come to the Table we hear Christ. Christ is here, in our midst, in Word and Sacrament, and it is through the Spirit that we hear, believe, and also obey.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Carl Emerson]

I'm not seeing how that passage speaks to hearing the literal voice of God.

If the argument is that through the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, our conscience is being shaped by the Spirit, and thus as we grow in Christ our conscience is likewise growing to be defined by Christ--therefore, the conscience when informed by God's word and quicked by the Holy Spirit is trustworthy, ergo our own inner "voice" that cautions, or encourages, or says "that's right" or "that's wrong" is something we should listen to--and that God "speaks" to us in this way, by causing us to grow in Christ and learn the way of Christ so that our conscience becomes a reliable guide--I wouldn't disagree with any of that.

But I'm unaware of anything in Scripture that promises that we should have direct unmediated experience of God as an internalized voice. Everything in Scripture speaks of the mediated experience of God, God working through Means, and that the Holy Spirit uses these Means to bring us faith, strengthen our faith, hold us in faith, and keep us in Christ--encouraging us, working within us, to do good works and live godly lives of service.

It's because the Holy Spirit lives in us that when the Scriptures are read, we hear Christ; or when the Gospel is preached we hear Christ, or when we come to the Table we hear Christ. Christ is here, in our midst, in Word and Sacrament, and it is through the Spirit that we hear, believe, and also obey.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesus was only able to do what He saw and heard the Father doing - by the Holy Spirit within Him.

What He was inspired to say angered the religious leaders.

Hearing actual Words from God in a voice may be rare but a healthy believer should daily be guided by the Spirit to walk in the works the Father ordains. This can happen by implanted desire, prompting from a redeemed conscience or intuition, as a conversational relationship with the Father is sustained in continuing prayer. Lead us not into temptation is achieved by the Holy Spirit within constraining us.

It is this daily walk in the specifics of His will that is only possible with the Holy Spirit as our guide.

My sheep hear my voice and they follow me...

So there is a whole dimension of faith in Christian life that opens up with hearing Him by the variety of means He gives us.

 

[soldier of light]

I hear voices. I want to hear God so bad that my mind does I guess but its not real perhaps. Or maybe he does comfort me with good words. I really don't know. The voices scare me sometimes too because it's not normal. Often i end up using Scripture to correct their errors that they speak in my mind. The word is my mind now. I ask God why I'm like this. Is it trauma? I think so but it's just an opinion.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I hear voices. I want to hear God so bad that my mind does I guess but its not real perhaps. Or maybe he does comfort me with good words. I really don't know. The voices scare me sometimes too because it's not normal. Often i end up using Scripture to correct their errors that they speak in my mind. The word is my mind now. I ask God why I'm like this. Is it trauma? I think so but it's just an opinion.

Can you find a Church leader confident to pray with you about that?

 

[RDKirk]

If someone is hearing voices is that evidence of God/demons or could it just be a brain that is malfunctioning? Is it always the supernatural or always the brain malfunctioning or could it be a mixture? How can people tell the difference?
I guess whenever it happens in the Bible believers would say it involved God, etc, and it wasn't a mental illness - though the Bible sometimes talks about "crazy" people.

It depends on whether a supernatural event accompanies the supernatural voice.

From what I see in scripture, when God speaks more phenomena occur or follow than just someone hearing Him.

 

[soldier of light]

Can you find a Church leader confident to pray with you about that?

No I can't. My best bet is to stay away from people's religious and political strife. That way I have joy and peace.

The church is made up of divided political factions. They appear untied as they sit in their pews on Sunday but it's just a show. They're divided by politics in reality. The preacher is blind and doesn't see this. If anyone speaks up about it then they're hated. I think solitude is good for me.

 

[soldier of light]

They're divided by politics in reality. The preacher is blind and doesn't see this.

So if they can't heal their own blindness or their blind flock, how can they heal me?

 

[soldier of light]

I believe avoiding strife and worshipping the Lord is like daily medication. You need a healing environment. The more negativity in your mind the worse it will be. In my non medical opinion