Healthspan, lifespan, exercise - Jordan Peterson, Peter Attia

RDKirk

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It's not that much higher. There are plenty of white people that are overweight or obese.

Usually for white Americans, the more conservative they vote, the heavier they tend to be:

Voting red doesn't make you fat.

But where you live influences your culture, and your culture influences your income, where you live, how you live, what you eat, and then how you vote.

Anyone who would try to establish a direct correlation between voting and obesity is practicing evil science at the level of the Soviets using Lamarck to uphold their New Soviet Man ideologies.
 
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FireDragon76

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Voting red doesn't make you fat.

But where you live influences your culture, and your culture influences your income, where you live, how you live, what you eat, and then how you vote.

Anyone who would try to establish a direct correlation between voting and obesity is practicing evil science at the level of the Soviets using Lamarck to uphold their New Soviet Man ideologies.

Of course, it's a correlation, not causation. I think it reflects something more like tribalism in our current political climate. They call it "the Great American Sorting".

My point is, not all white Americans are thin. In fact most are overweight to varying degrees (around 3/4). Excessive body fat is a problem that effects the entire society, impacting African Americans the greatest, but a problem for Americans in general.
 
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myst33

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Of these figures, only Blacks really stand out as particularly exceptional.

Hispanics are hardly different than Whites, only 6 percent higher BMI. I live in an Hispanic neighborhood, and most of my neighbors are carrying around less body fat than the majority White county just a few miles away, which is predominantly suburban. In addition, if Hispanics are overweight, they tend to be less likely to be morbidly obese, from what I have seen.



The Asian figures need to be treated carefully. Asians have more body fat at a lower BMI.



There are plenty of non-poor whites that are seriously overweight or obese as well, especially in more politically conservative counties in the US.
I am not sure what you are trying to argue against. The position is that the worse economic situation, the more obesity, because also the more junk is eaten, more stress is experienced on daily basis etc.
 
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RDKirk

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Of course, it's a correlation, not causation. I think it reflects something more like tribalism in our current political climate. They call it "the Great American Sorting".
When I see a "scientific" study making that kind of correlation--and that's exactly what that paper does, it does make that correlation--I know they're practicing evil science and I make note of who sponsored the study. They implied causation, and they deliberately intended that implication. Honest scientists not driven by ideology would never have written that paper.
My point is, not all white Americans are thin. In fact most are overweight to varying degrees. Excessive body fat is a problem that effects the entire society, impacting African Americans the greatest, but a problem for Americans in general.
If you look even casually at why obesity would be common among blacks and certain whites, one of the first things evidence is commonality of culture.

Black people in the South obviously (obvious when you take a clear look at it) share much of the culture of white people in the South, particularly food (but many other cultural factors as well). Moreover, black people in the North represent a migration of that Southern culture from the South--particularly food--to the North. What Northern white people think of as "soul food" all Southers (black and white) call just "food."

Paradoxically (but not really a paradox, when you take a clear look at it) a black person who votes conservatively is more likely to also be slender and even more wealthy. Oh, he may still be wrong in how he votes, but he's voting based on rational decision-making rather than going with the flow of Black culture. If he's making rational, counter-cultural political choices, he's more likely to be operating counter-culturally in his dietary choices.
 
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RDKirk

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I am not sure what you are trying to argue against. The position is that the worse economic situation, the more obesity, because also the more junk is eaten, more stress is experienced on daily basis etc.
And while whites in the South indeed are more conservative as a region, they also have much the same diet as blacks in the North. As well, the typical Southern diet tends to cross economic boundaries. That wealthy Southern white man loves his fried chicken as much as the poorer whites and the blacks in both the South and the North. What they all eat is the same, and the effects on weight are the same.
 
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FireDragon76

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And while whites in the South indeed are more conservative as a region, they also have much the same diet as blacks in the North. As well, the typical Southern diet tends to cross economic boundaries. That wealthy Southern white man loves his fried chicken as much as the poorer whites and the blacks in both the South and the North. What they all eat is the same, and the effects on weight are the same.

The correlation between voting behavior in the 2016 election, and obesity, is at the county level and occurs nationwide. It isn't merely confined to the southern US.

I suspect that people that are more conservative or reactionary about their politics, are less likely to select foods for their nutritional value, and more likely to select foods because that are perceived as traditional or comforting.
 
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RDKirk

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The correlation between voting behavior in the 2016 election, and obesity, is at the county level and occurs nationwide. It isn't merely confined to the southern US.

I suspect that people that are more conservative or reactionary about their politics, are less likely to select foods for their nutritional value, and more likely to select foods because that are perceived as traditional or comforting.
Except that hypothesis fails completely with regard to African-Americans, who are simultaneously more liberal and more obese. It fails most completely with black women, who are simultaneously the very most liberal group in America and also the very most obese.

That's a clue that there is no politics>obesity correlation with any useful directness.
 
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FireDragon76

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Except that hypothesis fails completely with regard to African-Americans, who are simultaneously more liberal and more obese. It fails most completely with black women, who are simultaneously the very most liberal group in America and also the very most obese.

That's a clue that there is no politics>obesity correlation with any useful directness.

Generalities can always have exceptions.

Within African Americans as a demographic, there are class disparities in BMI, with wealthier AA's being thinner than those who are poorer. Perhaps this is why there is more obesity among African Americans, since more live in poverty than whites or Asians.
 
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RDKirk

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Generalities can always have exceptions.

Within African Americans as a demographic, there are class disparities in BMI, with wealthier AA's being thinner than those who are poorer. Perhaps this is why there is more obesity among African Americans, since more live in poverty than whites or Asians.
Yes, there are class disparities among African-Americans in obesity--the same disparity that there is with whites. Those wealthier African-Americans are also more conservative in at least some areas of their live, their wealth being a direct result of a more conservative lifestyle. Profligates don't become wealthy.

The correlation of obesity with class is far more demonstrable than the generality of obesity with political party affiliation.
 
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FireDragon76

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We have been discussing resistance of muscles to protein synthesis signalling. According to Dr. David Sinclair, a research scientist who studies the mechanisms of aging at Harvard, this resistance is due to aging of the blood vessels, so they no longer communicate well with muscle cells to deliver protein for muscle protein synthesis:




Researchers that have looked at some of the so-called Blue Zones, areas of the world that have the longest-lived people, such as Sardinia or Ikaria, have noted that many of the elderly people have good cardiovascular health, even in old age. They also don't seem to have as many frail people among the elderly. Their diets are also relatively lower in protein compared to an American diet.

According to Dr. Michelle Miche's review of a meta-analysis and several studies of protein supplementation in the elderly, there is no benefit in muscle strength from increased protein consumption in elderly populations that have adequate protein intakes. On the contrary, most of the sources of the "more protein for the elderly" comes from opinion papers in medical journals, not actual research.




Link to one of the main studies referenced:


This goes with alot of things I've been reading about the impact of poor cardiovascular health on multiple organ systems. Poor bloodflow affects every organ in the body, not just the heart. There's even evidence Alzheimer's is due mostly to poor blood flow to the brain.
 
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timewerx

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We have been discussing resistance of muscles to protein synthesis signalling. According to Dr. David Sinclair, a research scientist who studies the mechanisms of aging at Harvard, this resistance is due to aging of the blood vessels, so they no longer communicate well with muscle cells to deliver protein for muscle protein synthesis:




Researchers that have looked at some of the so-called Blue Zones, areas of the world that have the longest-lived people, such as Sardinia or Ikaria, have noted that many of the elderly people have good cardiovascular health, even in old age. They also don't seem to have as many frail people among the elderly. Their diets are also relatively lower in protein compared to an American diet.

According to Dr. Michelle Miche's review of a meta-analysis and several studies of protein supplementation in the elderly, there is no benefit in muscle strength from increased protein consumption in elderly populations that have adequate protein intakes. On the contrary, most of the sources of the "more protein for the elderly" comes from opinion papers in medical journals, not actual research.




Link to one of the main studies referenced:


This goes with alot of things I've been reading about the impact of poor cardiovascular health on multiple organ systems. Poor bloodflow affects every organ in the body, not just the heart. There's even evidence Alzheimer's is due mostly to poor blood flow to the brain.

Some of the things I read is that for those who are physically active or exercise regularly gets adaptations that makes their body use protein more efficiently and adaptations that protects against muscle loss.

So you may not need as much protein. I don't meet the daily minimum intake myself but no negative consequences at all. I'm still getting stronger in training and gaining lean mass.
 
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FireDragon76

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Some of the things I read is that for those who are physically active or exercise regularly gets adaptation that makes their body use protein more efficiently and adaptations that protects against muscle loss.

One thing exercise is believed to do is encourage growth of new blood vessels.
 
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FireDragon76

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I seem to have hit a fat loss plateau, at 21.9 percent body fat, and 174 lbs. It's been holding for nearly a week.

I've been focusing more on low intensity steady state cardio, but it doesn't seem to be budging the numbers. I've also been in a consistent 500 calorie deficit, according to Cronometer, burning about 300 extra calories per day in exercise or activity. Maybe I need to increase the intensity of resistance training. It no longer seems like I'm building muscle.

One thing cardio exercise does seem to do is reduce my non-exercise activity (pacing, just general physical activity). I've got an Amazon Fit band on a Cyber Monday sale and I'm going to start tracking my total movement during the day.
 
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timewerx

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One thing exercise is believed to do is encourage growth of new blood vessels.

That allows better delivery of nutrients throughout your body and not just nutrients like protein but also oxygen.

Better oxygen delivery allows you to increase the intensity of aerobic exercises. Aerobic activities prefer fat metabolism over glucose.
 
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Larniavc

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One of the problems they discussed why people don't exercise is lack of time and the lack of time is mainly due to work / jobs. People working extra long hours to pay for the high cost of living. And the high cost of living they blame to the horrible economic efficiency of the country. Tons of money wasted in programs that deliver poor value for the money.
I mostly loath Peterson but this point is well made. Both my wife and I have decided to work part time so that we have more quality time with each other and our son.

You never hear about people on their death bed saying they wish they put more hours in at work.
 
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Larniavc

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And they started talking about "Universal Basic Income" and even incentivizing exercise. People receiving compensation/money simply for exercising. Which may sound absurd at first but considering the staggering monetary losses in curing sick people and the lost productive time....It may actually start making sense to pay people who are making an effort in disease prevention like exercising.
Crikey. Two things that both Peterson and I agree on. Must be a blue moon month.
 
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