Healing, and the truth in God's Word.

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
I have spent a great deal of time seeking God's wisdom on why so few people walk in the fullness of God's glory.

Since this is the Word of Faith Forum, I may make a presumption that we believe in healing as part of the attonment of Christ.

First we have the promises of Christ taking our burden of sickness.
Isaiah 53: 5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Matthew 8: 17. That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

1 Peter 2: 24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

The promises in God's covenant with those who are in Christ simply amazing.
Theologians cannot twist them, nor remove them.
Why does the Church world fight so hard against the joy in Christ?

Heres what I have started to believe:

From the beginning after Christ ascended to His rightful place, Christians were persecuted to death.
This was horrible Nero burned us and used Christians as night lights.
Gnostic teachings from Jews pounded away at the early Churches.
Paganism was forced to intermingle among Christianity, if you do not believe this look at our dollar bill and other common things , like our names for days.
Even our day of worship is named from pagan roots.
God's Word was removed and only given by those chosen, it wasent until 1300 plus years after Christ, that great men risked everything to bring it to the common man.
So moving on during the reformation, doctrines sprung up that changed the focus of the gospel, to that which seemed good to them.
This is why cessationism was the major point of view for hundreds of years, and the battle go's on today.
Bless God for the Spiritual movement at the turn of the last century.

Hebrews 4: 2. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Part 1
 

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Part 2.
Going back to why people do not walk in divine health, have authority over devils or never suffer lack.
It's easy to see a generational curse of unbelief.
Yes they believe in salvation, and yes many believe in God's giving divine healing, but even though they confess it have they recieved God's Word in their Spirit Soul and Body?
Who in the time of Christ had the Faith of King David or the Prophets?
Who today can claim the Faith in Mark 11 vs 23?
One man in the last century who had great Faith was Smith Wigglesworth.
His great Faith was due to Reading nothing but God's Word.
No preacher or critic could dampen his Faith.
God's Word is true, Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Great things happen among people that have never been taught not to believe.
For the rest of us:

Philippians 3: 13. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

It's not a hobby or part time Job, Christ the hope of glory in us every moment.

Hebrews 1: 10. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11. They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12. And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

It's not our Father who has removed his glory, it is us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hhodgson
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Part 2.
Going back to why people do not walk in divine health, have authority over devils or never suffer lack.
It's easy to see a generational curse of unbelief.
Yes they believe in salvation, and yes many believe in God's giving divine healing, but even though they confess it have they recieved God's Word in their Spirit Soul and Body?
Who in the time of Christ had the Faith of King David or the Prophets?
Who today can claim the Faith in Mark 11 vs 23?
One man in the last century who had great Faith was Smith Wigglesworth.
His great Faith was due to Reading nothing but God's Word.
No preacher or critic could dampen his Faith.
God's Word is true, Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Great things happen among people that have never been taught not to believe.
For the rest of us:

Philippians 3: 13. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

It's not a hobby or part time Job, Christ the hope of glory in us every moment.

Hebrews 1: 10. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11. They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12. And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

It's not our Father who has removed his glory, it is us.

.
I have found, there are those who believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, but when the need arises, they come online and boldly ask for prayer, what is that all about?
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
.
I have found, there are those who believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, but when the need arises, they come online and boldly ask for prayer, what is that all about?

Just that there is a difference between believing that we must be healed by Jesus and asking to be healed.
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Since this is the Word of Faith Forum, I may make a presumption that we believe in healing as part of the attonment of Christ.
Yes I believe that Jesus has fully and totally healed all Christians of the ills, huts, sinns etc that separet us from God and he has fully restored that relationship.
Nothing is as important as this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: now faith
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Just that there is a difference between believing that we must be healed by Jesus and asking to be healed.

.
That doesn't make sense, if your not healed by Jesus, then who is the one doing the healing.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,750
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,779.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Isaiah 53 Good News Translation (GNT)
53 The people reply,

“Who would have believed what we now report?
Who could have seen the Lord's hand in this?
2 It was the will of the Lord that his servant
grow like a plant taking root in dry ground.
He had no dignity or beauty
to make us take notice of him.
There was nothing attractive about him,
nothing that would draw us to him.
3 We despised him and rejected him;
he endured suffering and pain.
No one would even look at him—
we ignored him as if he were nothing.

4 “But he endured the suffering that should have been ours,
the pain that we should have borne.
All the while we thought that his suffering
was punishment sent by God.
5 But because of our sins he was wounded,
beaten because of the evil we did.
We are healed by the punishment he suffered,
made whole by the blows he received.
6 All of us were like sheep that were lost,
each of us going his own way.
But the Lord made the punishment fall on him,
the punishment all of us deserved.

7 “He was treated harshly, but endured it humbly;
he never said a word.
Like a lamb about to be slaughtered,
like a sheep about to be sheared,
he never said a word.
8 He was arrested and sentenced and led off to die,
and no one cared about his fate.
He was put to death for the sins of our people.
9 He was placed in a grave with those who are evil,
he was buried with the rich,
even though he had never committed a crime
or ever told a lie.”

10 The Lord says,

“It was my will that he should suffer;
his death was a sacrifice to bring forgiveness.
And so he will see his descendants;
he will live a long life,
and through him my purpose will succeed.
11 After a life of suffering, he will again have joy;
he will know that he did not suffer in vain.
My devoted servant, with whom I am pleased,
will bear the punishment of many
and for his sake I will forgive them.
12 And so I will give him a place of honor,
a place among the great and powerful.
He willingly gave his life
and shared the fate of evil men.
He took the place of many sinners
and prayed that they might be forgiven.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
.
I have found, there are those who believe the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, but when the need arises, they come online and boldly ask for prayer, what is that all about?

Rather than placing God's Word first, having Faith that all of the promises of God are yes and amen, in desperation they cry out.
This is where it gets confusing, since they are saved in Christ God's mercy is their answer.
Yet without Faith it is impossible to please God, so some have denied His Word to the point that their prayers are not answered.
It is the if it be thine will clause.
If they would stand on God's Word by Faith, they would know it's God's will.
His Word will not return void.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Just that there is a difference between believing that we must be healed by Jesus and asking to be healed.

You must believe beyond your human understanding.
There are two types of faith.
One is brought about by our minds,as we evaluate the probility of a certain thing coming to pass.
The other is Faith that comes from knowing God in our Spirit.
This Faith is beyond our human understanding, yet it is brought about by our personal relationship in Christ, and knowing God's will through The Holy Spirit.
Often we walk blind.
Picture walking through a dark forest at night, no way out you are lost and in danger.
Then you get a overwhelming sense that your not alone and this trial will pass.
So you start to praise God in Prayer, and you hear in your entire being go this way.
So you go, then you hear come up here.
You look as best you can ,and there is a hill.
You think for a moment I am going to fall in rocks.
You hear no come up now.
You take a great step by blind faith. You know you are walking with the Holy Spirit and He has given you the power over your fears.
And you suddenly see the lights of a town, and a clear path to it.
You have never been directed by God in a personal way as a friend, and you are overwhelmed with joy to tears.
You say my God knows and loves me of all people, He loves me.
Your Faith is Spiritually powered now, you have been touched by God.

For many they forget the Forest and the joy, they fall back on their own mental ability and stumble.
We must walk and talk with God every day every night.
We must know the events in our lives were not by chance.
Our choices are our own ability, or to be tempted into darkness by Satan, or put our lives in God our Fathers Hands.
And we trust him even when the other choices seem more pleasing.
Walk by Faith not by sight.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Isaiah 53 Good News Translation (GNT)
53 The people reply,

“Who would have believed what we now report?
Who could have seen the Lord's hand in this?
2 It was the will of the Lord that his servant
grow like a plant taking root in dry ground.
He had no dignity or beauty
to make us take notice of him.
There was nothing attractive about him,
nothing that would draw us to him.
3 We despised him and rejected him;
he endured suffering and pain.
No one would even look at him—
we ignored him as if he were nothing.

4 “But he endured the suffering that should have been ours,
the pain that we should have borne.
All the while we thought that his suffering
was punishment sent by God.
5 But because of our sins he was wounded,
beaten because of the evil we did.
We are healed by the punishment he suffered,
made whole by the blows he received.
6 All of us were like sheep that were lost,
each of us going his own way.
But the Lord made the punishment fall on him,
the punishment all of us deserved.

7 “He was treated harshly, but endured it humbly;
he never said a word.
Like a lamb about to be slaughtered,
like a sheep about to be sheared,
he never said a word.
8 He was arrested and sentenced and led off to die,
and no one cared about his fate.
He was put to death for the sins of our people.
9 He was placed in a grave with those who are evil,
he was buried with the rich,
even though he had never committed a crime
or ever told a lie.”

10 The Lord says,

“It was my will that he should suffer;
his death was a sacrifice to bring forgiveness.
And so he will see his descendants;
he will live a long life,
and through him my purpose will succeed.
11 After a life of suffering, he will again have joy;
he will know that he did not suffer in vain.
My devoted servant, with whom I am pleased,
will bear the punishment of many
and for his sake I will forgive them.
12 And so I will give him a place of honor,
a place among the great and powerful.
He willingly gave his life
and shared the fate of evil men.
He took the place of many sinners
and prayed that they might be forgiven.

I do not harrass over what Bible you want to use.
If you go to Matthew 8 vs 17 you find wittness that the words in Isaiah 53 were given by Isaiah the prophet, due to the statement which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet.
The great Isaiah scroll was found in the 1940s.
The King James translation was found to be very well translated from the scroll.
As in all translations there are words that are impossible to translate from one language to another.
In this case in the King James the words are italized, and the contextual integrity of the Word is still revelant.
But Lord knows I do not want a Bible debate, I have gotten to the point if a person wants to use a Bible written in Ebonics, go ahead.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hhodgson
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
"For lack of knowledge....." Hosea

"Many are sick and dying ...." Corinthians

"the truth will be called a lie, and the lie published as the truth.... " ?

" for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie... "

" God created everything simple; man came up with many devices..."

" Society is death dealing...." (not good; not desiring healing ) Galatians

The poor honest folk are oppressed, who will fight for them ?

Those who would (and did) heal, where did they go ? Why is it forbidden ?

Who gathers together to talk about God ? (the few) Malachi ....

Truth lovers. Truth seekers. Love not the world, nor the things of the world .....

The flesh profits nothing.... The Spirit gives life......

Love of money.... bad company corrupts good morals .... stand not in the presence of the wicked .... nor sit in the seat of scoffers....

Healing is simple. Sickness is more profitable.

Jesus says "You must be holy" as well as "go and sin no more, or you may be in worse condition than before" .....

"Whoever thinks in their heart sinning willingly, I (God) do not hear their prayer" ....

No surprise "few" find the narrow road to joy, peace, health, healing, life, salvation (Jesus) ....
 
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
.
That doesn't make sense, if your not healed by Jesus, then who is the one doing the healing.

Those who teach the health, wealth and prosperity nonsence also include that we must be healed, that being sick, dying, blind, an amputee etc is all down to your not having faith.

Jesus never promises that he will heal us of all ills, only that he will heal us of the death dealing illness that is being an enemy of God.

Having been saved there is nothing to stop us asking for an illness to be healed. That may be heal;ed through a doctor or it may be miraculusly healed or it may kill you.

That is God's choice, we don't manipulate him into having to heal us.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: JIMINZ
Upvote 0

Tolworth John

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mar 10, 2017
8,278
4,678
68
Tolworth
✟369,679.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You must believe beyond your human understanding.
There are two types of faith.
One is brought about by our minds,as we evaluate the probility of a certain thing coming to pass.
The other is Faith that comes from knowing God in our Spirit.
This Faith is beyond our human understanding, yet it is brought about by our personal relationship in Christ, and knowing God's will through The Holy Spirit.
Often we walk blind.
Picture walking through a dark forest at night, no way out you are lost and in danger.
Then you get a overwhelming sense that your not alone and this trial will pass.
So you start to praise God in Prayer, and you hear in your entire being go this way.
So you go, then you hear come up here.
You look as best you can ,and there is a hill.
You think for a moment I am going to fall in rocks.
You hear no come up now.
You take a great step by blind faith. You know you are walking with the Holy Spirit and He has given you the power over your fears.
And you suddenly see the lights of a town, and a clear path to it.
You have never been directed by God in a personal way as a friend, and you are overwhelmed with joy to tears.
You say my God knows and loves me of all people, He loves me.
Your Faith is Spiritually powered now, you have been touched by God.

For many they forget the Forest and the joy, they fall back on their own mental ability and stumble.
We must walk and talk with God every day every night.
We must know the events in our lives were not by chance.
Our choices are our own ability, or to be tempted into darkness by Satan, or put our lives in God our Fathers Hands.
And we trust him even when the other choices seem more pleasing.
Walk by Faith not by sight.

Sorry I fail to see how this has anything to do with whether one believes that we must be healed or that God heals inaccordance with his will.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Those who teach the health, wealth and prosperity nonsence also include that we must be healed, that being sick, dying, blind, an amputee etc is all down to your not having faith.

.
Now I understand your statement which I responded to.

I don't believe that Just because someone is Saved, they are automatically healed, although that has happened, but as a general rule, no.
:amen:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Those who teach the health, wealth and prosperity nonsence also include that we must be healed, that being sick, dying, blind, an amputee etc is all down to your not having faith.

Jesus never promises that he will heal us of all ills, only that he will heal us of the death dealing illness that is being an enemy of God.

Having been saved there is nothing to stop us asking for an illness to be healed. That may be heal;ed through a doctor or it may be miraculusly healed or it may kill you.

That is God's choice, we don't manipulate him into having to heal us.

What separates you from a sinner?
Do you believe you have salvation in Christ?
If so what gives you the reason to believe in salvation?
Did Christ give us anything else but salvation?
Is salvation a thing that happens, then we simply mirror the world, then die go to heaven and be happy.
Is it fire insurance ?
If God heals according to his will, then for those in Christ God has already given healing.

We do not serve a God who is a respecter of persons.
God will not break his Coveanut with mankind provided in the Blood of Christ.
We indeed know Gods will, By His Word.
We know Gods will by Christ in us.
We know Gods will because when we took on salvation, we took on His will.

Ephesians 3: 16. That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17. That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18. May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19. And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,


Galatians 4: 1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5. To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Those who teach the health, wealth and prosperity nonsence also include that we must be healed, that being sick, dying, blind, an amputee etc is all down to your not having faith.

Jesus never promises that he will heal us of all ills, only that he will heal us of the death dealing illness that is being an enemy of God.

Having been saved there is nothing to stop us asking for an illness to be healed. That may be heal;ed through a doctor or it may be miraculusly healed or it may kill you.

That is God's choice, we don't manipulate him into having to heal us.
Why do you add "having been saved" ?

Did Jesus not heal everyone who came to Him in all the Gospel Accounts - not just believers and disciples, but everyone who came to Him ?

When unbelievers, or not-yet-disciples get healed today, (more often than believers get healed perhaps) , WHO heals them ?
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Sorry I fail to see how this has anything to do with whether one believes that we must be healed or that God heals inaccordance with his will.

My bad, I was trying to convey Spiritual Faith as opposed to human Faith.
My analogy was not well done.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
"my " statement ?

Every idea/ phrase a quote directly from Scripture (I think).

Are you making a point?
You are welcome to simply say what you believe.
I don't want a throw down debate, but I do not want to censor your opinion either.
 
Upvote 0