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Head vs Heart

TreasureHunter12

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We all have our own strategies for coping with the pain of life. It wasn't until I gained clarity on my approach that I became interested in what Jesus taught and how it applied to my life.

When we are in pain, our heads can lead us toward a solution that can be categorized as masking, building, or destroying. Examples of masking include compulsive eating or ingesting drugs; building may mean achieving at work or shaping your body at the gym; destroying examples include habitual gambling or even self harming. Over time, we will develop a preferred go-to behavior or two.

The most popular religions provide ways to accommodate these characteristics as well. One can build themselves up through their religious identity and can also destroy themselves and others through extremism. The religious person is also given rituals and techniques to mask their pain such as through prayer or scripture study.

None of these strategies can cure the affliction we are faced with; they are all coping mechanisms, evidenced by the simple fact that pain and suffering eventually returns to our lives. Nevertheless, the head keeps us coming back through its endless rationalizations and justifications. Thought cannot free us from these half measures and non solutions. It is thought that lead us there to begin with.

While the head pulls hardest for our attention when in pain, there is another option, which is the heart. The head offers comfort, falseness, and failure; the heart offers pain, truth and success. It is the heart that lets us know that we are still in the same place we were when we started, that the pain we currently feel is the same pain from the beginning.

Our heartache leads us to the truth. The drug addict doesn't free himself when he listens to the voice in his head that says he'll quit after his next high. He quits when he is silent and heartbroken. The one that tries to fix the problem with their head is always struggling, always in recovery. Once we are able to see the emptiness of our coping strategy through our heart, it becomes useless to us. The head, being dominant over the heart, will then guide us toward another go-to strategy until our heart can once again free us.

Eventually, if we are lucky, we gradually become more aware and more confident in trusting the heart. We see these strategies as basically all the same -- all coping mechanisms existing within the domain of the head -- and we reject all of them. When pain revisits, we refuse to be pulled into our head. The effect is we become more self aware. We realize the obvious idea that all pain originates within the body. This causes us to be more internally focused rather than externalizing our pain.

I believe Jesus is describing this process when he says in the Gospel of Thomas the following:

"Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." (56)

"Whoever has come to know the world has discovered the body, and whoever has discovered the body, of that one the world is not worthy." (80)


When we observe our pain within, we become more aware of our internal coping mechanisms and similarly how fruitless they are for solving the problem. We notice the unconscious tendency to escape from the pain. We notice the impulse to protect ourselves using anger. We notice how strong this pain-avoidance mechanism is and how much it dictates our personality and everyday behavior. We become less and less tolerant of these unconscious protective measures and feel more and more rebellious as the tension grows each time we experience suffering or unfulfillment. Finally, the next time we are in a pain state, we consciously resist our protective impulses and we bring our awareness into our pain. If we continue is this direction long enough, continue to be guided by heart over head, we will be cured.

I believe Jesus is describing this approach when he says the following:

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." (Matthew 16:25)

"Whoever is near me is near the fire, and whoever is far from me is far from the (Father's) kingdom." (Thomas 82)


I am not trying to convince you of the benefits of this approach - that would be trying to use the head to guide which will fail. I would encourage you, the next time you are in despair, to be conscious of how you are going about resolving the problem. Are you in your head? If so, consider bringing your focus to your heart and body.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I always equated the phrase "listen to your heart" with the idea of paying attention to your feelings/emotions regarding a choice/problem. Is this what you mean? If you meant something else I'm afraid I don't understand and you'll need to clarify...

That said, I think it's almost always wrong to consider your emotions as the most important factor in a choice (in fact, I would suggest to most people that they try to ignore their emotions altogether). The only time I would suggest "following your heart" is when all the intellectual considerations are small/equal or the goal of the choice at hand is emotional satisfaction. Since that's rarely the case...people should consider ignoring their hearts and using their heads more.
 
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TreasureHunter12

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I always equated the phrase "listen to your heart" with the idea of paying attention to your feelings/emotions regarding a choice/problem. Is this what you mean? If you meant something else I'm afraid I don't understand and you'll need to clarify...

That said, I think it's almost always wrong to consider your emotions as the most important factor in a choice (in fact, I would suggest to most people that they try to ignore their emotions altogether). The only time I would suggest "following your heart" is when all the intellectual considerations are small/equal or the goal of the choice at hand is emotional satisfaction. Since that's rarely the case...people should consider ignoring their hearts and using their heads more.
I'm explaining where to put our awareness. Have you ever realized that it is impossible to think, analyze, or engage in self-talk when your awareness is outside of your head? For instance, if you place your full awareness on an object away from you, it is impossible to simultaneously engage in thought unless your awareness gets sucked back into your head.

To answer your question, I'm not talking about making emotional decisions, but rather literally bringing your awareness into your heart/torso area.

If you observe yourself in any type of distress, you'll notice that your awareness is forcefully being pulled into your head where the racing thoughts are. If this happens, you will inevitably latch onto a solution to resolve the painful experience. This is mostly an unconscious process that we are held hostage by. However, we do have the capability of directing our conscious awareness away from our head and into our heart, thereby opting out of this continuous cycle of sweeping the problem under the rug. When we do this, we are exercising our free will and becoming more conscious especially when stressed.

This is a very ambitious practice. It's about saying that none of the options that my head provides for me will cure the problem, so I am not acting. If you do this wholeheartedly, your attention will naturally be drawn toward your heart area when dealing with suffering. This process exists outside of the intellect and outside of emotion; it's intuitive and subtle.

It's difficult to describe so I'm using a lot of words but it is very simple in practice. What I have learned over time is that life will give us the bare minimum of what we will accept. It is only after we firmly and repeatedly reject what is offered, that we can have better. We are provided with many pain relief options, but until we reject them all, we are spinning our wheels. This may not seem it has much to do with religion, but this is what mental/spiritual development is all about.
 
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Chris B

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"The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked."
Jeremiah 17:9.

Not being a Christian I don't have to go that far, but I have little doubt that keeping one's head to check what one's feelings and emotions are saying is more critical in catching errors than the reverse.

The things that emotions or feelings are really good at is announcing their existence. Quite often with persistence and intensity.
Whether there is anything of truth about them beyond that is more difficult.
It is actually known, if one pauses to think, that an argument shouted or loaded with emotion is not in the slightest more likely to be true because of such. And yet many people (most?)still fall for that, time and time again.
Thus, all too often, emotions.

That doesn't mean cool mind is perfect. Far from it.
But at least cool mind can pick up the concept of its own imperfect nature and examine it, and work with it.

TreasureHunter12:
"None of these strategies can cure the affliction we are faced with; they are all coping mechanisms, evidenced by the simple fact that pain and suffering eventually returns to our lives. Nevertheless, the head keeps us coming back through its endless rationalizations and justifications. Thought cannot free us from these half measures and non solutions. It is thought that lead us there to begin with."

Want to bet? I take that paragraph as having had insufficient thought applied to it.
Have we established that there is anything abnormal if "pain and suffering eventually returns to our lives."
"Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upwards" (Job 5:7).
It's a particular handling of suffering (it leans towards the Buddhist view) that a high priority is not to experience suffering, or that suffering is inevitably associated with wrong.
Both may be true, in times and places but neither is necessarily true.
So I suggest that "I am suffering" or "I am hurting" is not of itself a *reliable* guide to anything being wrong. Or to the nature of the wrong or its solution, if there is one.

Yes, it is quite possible to think too much, to bad effect.
But it is my rough estimate that for every one person who overdoses on thinking
about fifty have it as a deficiency disease.
 
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Extraneous

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Listening to your heart can either be good or bad. It depends on what is in your heart. If you see that your heart is wicked, and you repent, and begin to learn what is right, then you have put right thinking in your heart. The heart and mind work together in that way.
 
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Extraneous

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Phillipians 4:7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Proverbs 4:23 Keep your heart with all diligence,
For out of it spring the issues of life.
 
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GrowingSmaller

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Peace zone:


I have been told that the intellect creates feelings, for example if you are in danger the intellect realises this and creates fear. So it would follow that htere is no basic opposition betweeen feeling and thought.

On the other hand it has been said (in a shia source) that the sleep of one who uses his intellect is better than the vigil of one who does not, and likewise the meal of one who uses his intellect is better than the fasting of one who does not, and the staying at home of the one who uses intlellect is beetter than the jihad of the one who does not.

The emphasis is on thinking things through and listening to instruction etc. Opposed to whim and thoughtlessness.

In a sunni hadith there is talk of the heart (but I think this means the mind or our psychology as a whole, see link):
"In the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be sound, all the body is sound and which, if it be diseased, all the body is diseased. This part of the body is the heart..."
 
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Ana the Ist

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It's pretty obvious to me now that I misunderstood you. I don't know if it's my inability to understand, or if it's your inability to clearly express your ideas. Either way, I've got more questions now than I did originally.


I'm explaining where to put our awareness. Have you ever realized that it is impossible to think, analyze, or engage in self-talk when your awareness is outside of your head?

No...I never realized that...mainly because no matter how hard I try, I don't stop thinking...even when I'm completely focused on something external.

Maybe this will help...when you completely focus on something external...what is it that you believe you're doing if not thinking/analyzing?

To answer your question, I'm not talking about making emotional decisions, but rather literally bringing your awareness into your heart/torso area.

If you observe yourself in any type of distress, you'll notice that your awareness is forcefully being pulled into your head where the racing thoughts are.

This doesn't seem to be the case for the me. Let's say I've badly broken my leg....my attention will almost exclusively be on my broken leg.



If this happens, you will inevitably latch onto a solution to resolve the painful experience. This is mostly an unconscious process that we are held hostage by. However, we do have the capability of directing our conscious awareness away from our head and into our heart, thereby opting out of this continuous cycle of sweeping the problem under the rug. When we do this, we are exercising our free will and becoming more conscious especially when stressed.

This is a very ambitious practice. It's about saying that none of the options that my head provides for me will cure the problem, so I am not acting. If you do this wholeheartedly, your attention will naturally be drawn toward your heart area when dealing with suffering. This process exists outside of the intellect and outside of emotion; it's intuitive and subtle.

It's difficult to describe so I'm using a lot of words but it is very simple in practice. What I have learned over time is that life will give us the bare minimum of what we will accept. It is only after we firmly and repeatedly reject what is offered, that we can have better. We are provided with many pain relief options, but until we reject them all, we are spinning our wheels. This may not seem it has much to do with religion, but this is what mental/spiritual development is all about.

Hopefully your answers will help me make sense your post here.
 
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TreasureHunter12

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Not being a Christian I don't have to go that far, but I have little doubt that keeping one's head to check what one's feelings and emotions are saying is more critical in catching errors than the reverse.
I explain in my second post that I am not advocating emotional decision making. I should have anticipated this miscommunication when I made the OP.

Have we established that there is anything abnormal if "pain and suffering eventually returns to our lives."
It's not a question of whether suffering is abnormal, but it's about whether or not we have a desire to cure it. I feel strongly that everyone has moments when they feel this desire, usually during and soon after they experience suffering. That desire should be seized and held onto.

Yes, it is quite possible to think too much, to bad effect.
But it is my rough estimate that for every one person who overdoses on thinking
about fifty have it as a deficiency disease.
The problem is when we think to resolve our pain those thoughts are influenced by emotion at an unconscious level. We agree we want to avoid emotional decision making.
 
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TreasureHunter12

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Listening to your heart can either be good or bad. It depends on what is in your heart. If you see that your heart is wicked, and you repent, and begin to learn what is right, then you have put right thinking in your heart. The heart and mind work together in that way.
The OP is describing accurately what it means to repent. To repent means to use your awareness to go deeper and deeper into yourself.
 
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TreasureHunter12

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It's pretty obvious to me now that I misunderstood you. I don't know if it's my inability to understand, or if it's your inability to clearly express your ideas. Either way, I've got more questions now than I did originally.




No...I never realized that...mainly because no matter how hard I try, I don't stop thinking...even when I'm completely focused on something external.

Maybe this will help...when you completely focus on something external...what is it that you believe you're doing if not thinking/analyzing?
I'm sure you're familiar with mindfulness, right. The idea is when you observe thought, you can't be hijacked by it. That which observes is your awareness.

You can focus on something outside of you without moving your awareness. What I meant was to actually move your full awareness outside of your head, and then if you begin thinking notice that your awareness is back inside your head. It's an awkward exercise but an important insight.

This doesn't seem to be the case for the me. Let's say I've badly broken my leg....my attention will almost exclusively be on my broken leg.
Your thoughts and focus will be on your broken leg, but your awareness will be located in your head. This is something that has to be observed by practicing self awareness and mindfulness.
 
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Extraneous

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The OP is describing accurately what it means to repent. To repent means to use your awareness to go deeper and deeper into yourself.

Im not so sure that the OP is entirely correct. Emotions can be harmful in our decision making but they can also be valuable, as with love for example. Love is both a way of life and an emotion, and our emotional pain can help us understand how to better love others, so emotions are important part of the mind and heart, if they have proper guidance, such as scripture. The OP seems to suggest that prayer and scripture meditation is only a mask, but its more than that. Scripture mediation helps us meditate on how to love others, for example. I wont try to analyze the whole OP, its a bit long. If i have misunderstood this part of it however, im willing to go that far and discuss it alittle
 
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TreasureHunter12

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Im not so sure that the OP is entirely correct. Emotions can be harmful in our decision making but they can also be valuable, as with love for example. Love is both a way of life and an emotion, and our emotional pain can help us understand how to better love others, so emotions are important part of the mind and heart, if they have proper guidance, such as scripture. The OP seems to suggest that prayer and scripture meditation is only a mask, but its more than that. Scripture mediation helps us meditate on how to love others, for example. I wont try to analyze the whole OP, its a bit long. If i have misunderstood this part of it however, im willing to go that far and discuss it alittle
I would say this thread isn't about decision making in general, but rather decision making specifically regarding pain resolution. When attempting to resolve pain, emotion leads to error. When someone is unfulfilled and they decide that they'd be happy if only they had more money, it is emotion that gives rise to those erroneous thoughts. When I'm proposing to reject the head in that situation, I'm actually saying to reject the hidden emotion that drives that thinking.
 
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Extraneous

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I would say this thread isn't about decision making in general, but rather decision making specifically regarding pain resolution. When attempting to resolve pain, emotion leads to error. When someone is unfulfilled and they decide that they'd be happy if only they had more money, it is emotion that gives rise to those erroneous thoughts. When I'm proposing to reject the head in that situation, I'm actually saying to reject the hidden emotion that drives that thinking.

The scriptures teach that if we show mercy, we will be shown mercy. We reap what we sow. We are taught to sow to the spirit. I think that is an important part of pain resolution. Many people say in order to get over emotional trauma, that we should try to forgive those who hurt us. I believe thats true.
 
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TreasureHunter12

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The scriptures teach that if we show mercy, we will be shown mercy. We reap what we sow. We are taught to sow to the spirit. I think that is an important part of pain resolution. Many people say in order to get over emotional trauma, that we should try to forgive those who hurt us. I believe thats true.
I agree. The emotional, impulsive thinking that wants revenge when we feel wronged is similar to the emotional thinking that I am saying to separate yourself from in this thread. Jesus teaches to forgive internally, in heart and mind. He's not teaching morality; he's teaching something more. Likewise, when he says to turn the other cheek.
 
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Extraneous

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I agree. The emotional, impulsive thinking that wants revenge when we feel wronged is similar to the emotional thinking that I am saying to separate yourself from in this thread. Jesus teaches to forgive internally, in heart and mind. He's not teaching morality; he's teaching something more. Likewise, when he says to turn the other cheek.

I didnt quite understand the entirety of the OP, but i understand and agree with what you say here.
 
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timewerx

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When we observe our pain within, we become more aware of our internal coping mechanisms and similarly how fruitless they are for solving the problem. We notice the unconscious tendency to escape from the pain. We notice the impulse to protect ourselves using anger. We notice how strong this pain-avoidance mechanism is and how much it dictates our personality and everyday behavior. We become less and less tolerant of these unconscious protective measures and feel more and more rebellious as the tension grows each time we experience suffering or unfulfillment. Finally, the next time we are in a pain state, we consciously resist our protective impulses and we bring our awareness into our pain. If we continue is this direction long enough, continue to be guided by heart over head, we will be cured.

In the emotional aspect, this could be a good advice.

But trying to suppress the physical aspect of our defense mechanisms, no that is not a good advice. Such aspect of defense mechanisms can save lives.
 
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TreasureHunter12

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In the emotional aspect, this could be a good advice.

But trying to suppress the physical aspect of our defense mechanisms, no that is not a good advice. Such aspect of defense mechanisms can save lives.
There is no danger of that happening. When facing a life threatening situation, all philosophy goes out the window and our defense mechanism will take over automatically.

I'm talking from the perspective of when there is no imminent threat present.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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To repent means to use your awareness to go deeper and deeper into yourself.
That sounds more like introspection; 'to repent' usually means 'to feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin'.

Was it a typo or have you found another meaning for it?
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm sure you're familiar with mindfulness, right. The idea is when you observe thought, you can't be hijacked by it. That which observes is your awareness.

You can focus on something outside of you without moving your awareness. What I meant was to actually move your full awareness outside of your head, and then if you begin thinking notice that your awareness is back inside your head. It's an awkward exercise but an important insight.


Your thoughts and focus will be on your broken leg, but your awareness will be located in your head. This is something that has to be observed by practicing self awareness and mindfulness.

What do you think "awareness" is?
 
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