Head covering

[seeking.IAM]

I don't think it's fair to insinuate that any woman who doesn't cover has a "lazy interior life."

I don't either, yet I think there is something to be said for being mindful about approaching worship as something special to be done thoughtfully. Your preferred modest attire and my suit for example. Biblical references say, "take off your sandals, you are standing on Holy ground." Yet the modern church dresses for worship no different than if they were working in the garden. Okay, I know I have a few quirks, pet peeves, and biases. Guilty as charged.

 

[Margaret3110]

I don't either, yet I think there is something to be said for being mindful about approaching worship as something special to be done thoughtfully.

I agree with that.

Biblical references say, "take off your sandals, you are standing on Holy ground." Yet the modern church dresses for worship no different than if they were working in the garden.

Is that true? I don't pay a whole lot of attention to what the people in my congregation wear, but I definitely have the impression that most people dress up. Men tend to wear suits or at least business casual sort of clothing and women tend to wear suits or dresses. Some people may not be able to afford those kinds of clothing though or maybe they are uncomfortable in them for various reasons. I'd rather someone was in church in sweatpants than not there at all.

Now my son wears shorts and a t-shirt to church. He is autistic and has major sensory issues with clothing. I am just happy he's wearing anything.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Is that true? I don't pay a whole lot of attention to what the people in my congregation wear, but I definitely have the impression that most people dress up.

I truly believe God accepts us as we are so if sweats is the best one can do to attend church, or what gets us into church, that is good enough. I don't set standards for other people. But as for me I will not approach worship casually as if it was any other day or any other event. That's me and what I prefer, and if I'm the odd ball for being over-dressed so be it. If a head covering, veil, long skirt, or suit and tie, puts one more in the spirit of worship, that is what s/he should do.

I have quite a few decades under by belt by now. My observation is that dress in the U.S. has become much more casual in general over my lifetime, and that carries over into church. Today, I also find it congregation-specific. I recently located to a different city and attend the same denomination. My former church was very formal. Even the ushers were required to be in suits. My new church is very informal with everything from men in shorts to business casual. I had the only tie in the place last Sunday. I think there was one other jacket.

I think the flavor of the church is also in play. Churches appearing more like a theater with a stage and a drum set lend themselves to different kind of attire than worshipping in a gothic cathedral in my experience and opinion.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

From what I read, the instructions to wear a veil isn't put as something she has a choice about. It is presented as an instruction that applies to all women and always will apply. It is a matter of obedience to God and isn't a thing just for that particular time. It's part of Gods plan for women... not something that can be discarded because of 'but these days'!
Why is this disobedience of being unveiled tolerated and even encouraged? This instruction is clear and for all women of the new covenant. There is no theological justification for going against this clear instruction and sheer idolatry to change what you think God is like to suit current fashions.
The sense that all Christians make up the church and therefore are always 'in church' is true, also Christians are instructed to pray continuously.. nott just at particular ritual times. Therefore veiling should continuous for women. They should wear it throughout the day and stop this disobedient sinning.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

From what I read, the instructions to wear a veil isn't put as something she has a choice about. It is presented as an instruction that applies to all women and always will apply. It is a matter of obedience to God and isn't a thing just for that particular time. It's part of Gods plan for women... not something that can be discarded because of 'but these days'!
Why is this disobedience of being unveiled tolerated and even encouraged? This instruction is clear and for all women of the new covenant. There is no theological justification for going against this clear instruction and sheer idolatry to change what you think God is like to suit current fashions.
The sense that all Christians make up the church and therefore are always 'in church' is true, also Christians are instructed to pray continuously.. nott just at particular ritual times. Therefore veiling should continuous for women. They should wear it throughout the day and stop this disobedient sinning.

I can sympathise with your inclination, it's just that Paul seems to specifically address the activities of praying and prophesying that require head covering for women - so all day may be stretching it a bit. One might argue a believer may pray all day, but that does not seem to be Paul's angle in his text obviously.

I think most modern Western female believers nowadays find the head covering awkward because it's clearly perceived as archaic and counter-cultural, and probably also because most/many will experience no specific spiritual benefit from wearing a covering. So they might argue: if my spiritual life is not different with/without covering, why bother; then maybe it's really not that important to God? Maybe it's only cultural after all ... ? (personally I don't think that's the case, but I'm just sketching the mainstream consideration at this point)

 

[Tellyontellyon]

I can sympathise with your inclination, it's just that Paul seems to specifically address the activities of praying and prophesying that require head covering for women - so all day may be stretching it a bit. One might argue a believer may pray all day, but that does not seem to be Paul's angle in his text obviously.

I think most modern Western female believers nowadays find the head covering awkward because it's clearly perceived as archaic and counter-cultural, and probably also because most/many will experience no specific spiritual benefit from wearing a covering. So they might argue: if my spiritual life is not different with/without covering, why bother; then maybe it's really not that important to God? Maybe it's only cultural after all ... ? (personally I don't think that's the case, but I'm just sketching the mainstream consideration at this point)

You're right... A lot of things may seem pointless in a modern perspective. But obedience is about obedience. God wants it. A certain way... it's not about what anybody else wants or their personal comfort.
Otherwise just throw out the whole Bible.

 

[DragonFox91]

Up until World War II, men & women BOTH covered their heads. Men & women both wore hats everywhere. That only went away relatively recently. Our forefathers erred in this by going away w/ it & we are all directly going against what the Bible says by coming up w/ excuses why it means something else. Notice how very fundamental groups still wear head coverings? Archaic? Counter-cultural? We find it awkward? How rebellious are we!

 

[Tellyontellyon]

The teachings seem very clear, there is a clear scriptural direction for women to cover their heads.
This rebellion must be repented. Opposing God is a clear sin, and without complete repentance... how can they be saved?

 

[Sketcher]

I've seen some Christian women who cover their heads. There seems to be a fairly clear direction about this in 1 Corinthians, so how come this isn't followed very much?
The injunction seems to say while praying, but isn't prayer something that can happen at any moment?
Why aren't Christian women covering their heads?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I interpret 1 Corinthians 11:15 to mean that long hair is good enough, and if people would give me the side eye if I had hair that long, then that length is long enough for a woman. I really don't have the personal authority over other women that have it shorter, and it would be very rude to accuse a woman of wrongdoing if it turned out that she had a medical condition that affects her hair growth.

 

[rturner76]

I've seen some Christian women who cover their heads. There seems to be a fairly clear direction about this in 1 Corinthians, so how come this isn't followed very much?
The injunction seems to say while praying, but isn't prayer something that can happen at any moment?
Why aren't Christian women covering their heads?

In the church of my youth (African Methodist Episcopalian), I remember the older ladies in the church's front row wearing what looked to me like crochet doilies clipped to the top of their heads on the first Sunday of the month which was also the Sunday that communion was offered. The younger women didn't seem to observe that tradition and as the elder ladies were called home to God, no other women took their place in the following of that tradition.

My feeling is that the covering of one's head (both men and women) would seem to come from the Old Testament or more specifically from the time of the Israelites. I had a Jewish friend when I was young who told me they wear yamakas (men) and headscarves (women) to remind them that something is above them and that they are under God's covering. I think that was brought forward in the early Christian communities by Jews who accepted Christ but still kept Kosher rules. You can still see the tradition kept by nuns and some priests from the Roman Church.

One thing that is sort of interesting is that many Muslims keep this tradition alive with the women wearing hijabs and men wearing koofies. It's very similar to what the Jews wear as they believe in the God of Abraham.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

In the church of my youth (African Methodist Episcopalian), I remember the older ladies in the church's front row wearing what looked to me like crochet doilies clipped to the top of their heads on the first Sunday of the month which was also the Sunday that communion was offered. The younger women didn't seem to observe that tradition and as the elder ladies were called home to God, no other women took their place in the following of that tradition.

My feeling is that the covering of one's head (both men and women) would seem to come from the Old Testament or more specifically from the time of the Israelites. I had a Jewish friend when I was young who told me they wear yamakas (men) and headscarves (women) to remind them that something is above them and that they are under God's covering. I think that was brought forward in the early Christian communities by Jews who accepted Christ but still kept Kosher rules. You can still see the tradition kept by nuns and some priests from the Roman Church.

One thing that is sort of interesting is that many Muslims keep this tradition alive with the women wearing hijabs and men wearing koofies. It's very similar to what the Jews wear as they believe in the God of Abraham.

It's in Corinthians, Paul is saying that Women should cover their heads when praying. It's New Testament/Covenant.

 

[rturner76]

It's in Corinthians, Paul is saying that Women should cover their heads when praying. It's New Testament/Covenant.

That makes sense since the New is not supposed to contradict the Old