I can give you about 10 NT verses/passages stating that ...
one must endure (in faith, etc.) to the end (of life) to be saved.
I find those levels misleading and am also not sure if level 1 qualifies as faith. (for example, "I agree with what you're saying on paper, but do not trust you.")Level 1 -- strictly intellectual
Level 2 -- deeply heart-felt unto being born-again
Level 3 -- possessing the spiritual power gift of faith (1 Cor 12)
(This faith is far beyond what the normal BAC has!)
Level 3's belief/faith is a gift almost exclusively possessedlevel 3 sounds like a maturity of trust,
but is usually called surrender.
Are you talking about a righteousness gained through some form of legal obedience?All verses below are from the NKJV.
“… everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.”
(1 John 2:29)
“… whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God …”
(1 John 3:10)
“He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous.” (1 John 3:7)
“In this the children of God and the children of the devil
are manifest: whoever does not practice righteousness
is NOT of God, NOR is he who does NOT love his brother.”
(1 John 3:10)
“… whoever fears Him and works righteousness
is accepted by Him.” (Acts 10:35)
“… (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness”
(Romans 6:16)
“… slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:19)
God does NOT practice righteousness for BACs.
BACs must do the practicing of righteousness for themselves.
From the verses above, do we agree?
God only invites into heaven …
those who have a standing of righteousness before Him,
those whom He considers righteous.
Before I got on this site, I was not aware that it is commonly believed God predestined many to eternal fire.Surely, no one here believes that God controls everyone's destiny!
Because we most definitely have free will.
Because God didn't create no robots here, hear?
Because God doesn't want to be worshipped by robots.
etc.
There’s nothing in any of this that says the unregenerate love God.
Regeneration isn’t New Covenant.God recognized thousands of Old Testament believers, who lived under the Law, who loved God before the New Covenant regeneration of the Spirit.
Exodus 20:4-7 (WEB)
4 “You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 you shall not bow yourself down to them, nor serve them, for I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 and showing loving kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
???Until you anticipate revelation.
God is in control of everything.
Mkay.Until you cannot distinguish between Genesis 15:5 and 1 Cor 15:1-4
Before I got on this site, I was not aware that it is commonly believed God predestined many to eternal fire.
This works-salvation stuff makes the inevitability of good works coming out of salvation necessary to salvation. I've already explained in this thread what I mean and why this conflation of terms is in error.
This is bald-faced works-salvation, explicitly and repeatedly denied by Scripture:
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:3-10 (NASB)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
It's been my experience that those who champion a works-salvation perspective always play fast-and-loose with Scripture, carefully editing out and ignoring the immediate context, in particular, of the prooftexts from Scripture that they use to make their case. Above is a good example.
Romans 5:18-21 to Romans 6:1-6 (NASB)
… In light of all of these things, Paul wrote in a sort of surprised manner at the beginning of chapter 6, wondering why on earth the Roman Christians were caught up in sin. All that was theirs in Christ, the grace given to them in Jesus, and the perfect justification, meant that they were now free from the power of sin.
Regeneration isn’t New Covenant.
Jesus told Nic that he must be born again. Any idea what covenant they were under when He said that?Easy to say. And if you choose to believe that, then that is your free will choice. The Scriptures teach that regeneration is for the New Covenant. You have to actually make an effort to reject the many Scriptures in God's Holy Word that discuss Regeneration in the New Covenant to hold onto your belief.
Regeneration has been around as long as men had God given Faith, for Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Abel had Faith Heb 11:4Regeneration only occurred after Christ Jesus appeared to bring salvation (Titus 3:4-6)
Titus 3:4-7 (WEB) 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly, through Jesus Christ our Savior; 7 that being justified by his grace, we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
That is why the believers could not receive the Spirit until Jesus was glorified.
John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink!” 38 “He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.
I don't exactly subscribe to the pentecostal/charismatic doctrine on this.Level 3's belief/faith is a gift almost exclusively possessed
only by those whom Jesus has baptized with the Holy Spirit.
(There are 9 of these spiritual power gifts described in 1 Cor 12).
Do you personally know anyone who has any of these 9?
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