The Scriptures definitely do teach about when we first believed (initial salvation). At some point, the Christian had to have believed in Lord Jesus to be saved.
I've not denied that salvation happens within time, only that it happens progressively such that the saved individual is not really saved by grace but must ultimately earn their salvation - a thing the Bible rules out completely - by living righteously. This works-salvation stuff makes the
inevitability of good works coming out of salvation
necessary to salvation. I've already explained in this thread what I mean and why this conflation of terms is in error.
One has to endure in the faith, demonstrated in a holy life before God, to receive eternal salvation or eternal life in the end.
This is bald-faced works-salvation, explicitly and repeatedly denied by Scripture:
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
2 Timothy 1:9
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
Titus 3:5-7
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Peter 1:6-9 (WEB)
6 Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved in various trials, 7
that the proof of your faith, which is more precious than gold that perishes even though it is tested by fire, may be
found to result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ — 8 whom, not having known, you love. In him, though now you don’t see him, yet believing, you rejoice greatly with joy that is unspeakable and full of glory, 9
receiving the result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:3-10 (NASB)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
8 and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
It's been my experience that those who champion a works-salvation perspective always play fast-and-loose with Scripture, carefully editing out and ignoring the immediate context, in particular, of the prooftexts from Scripture that they use to make their case. Above is a good example.
How does Peter describe the salvation of the believers to whom he is writing?
Verse 3:
"...who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again..." Upon whom is the onus for salvation here? The believer? No. It is
God who has caused the believer to be born again. And it is God's
mercy that is the key thing in the believer's salvation, not their good works.
Verse 4:
"...an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away..." Does Peter write here of the spiritual inheritance of salvation as a tenuous reality for the believer, resting entirely upon their success in living right? Not at all. He emphasizes the indestructible and permanent nature of their inheritance, instead. But why remark on this if, by their sin, believers can eradicate that imperishable inheritance? It's hardly "imperishable," in a practical sense, if it may be lost by their failure to live righteously. Peter's words become a sort of taunt, if the enduring and pure inheritance he describes may be readily lost by a believer's inevitable migration into sin.
Verse 5:
"who are protected by the power of God through faith for salvation..." Peter rather confounds the works-salvation idea by plainly stating here that the believer is protected
by the power of God. In regard to what? Peter answers: "for
salvation." The believer isn't left to rely upon his own frail power in maintenance of his salvation but is protected by the inexhaustible power of God, guarded by it, for salvation.
Verse 7:
"so that the proof of your faith..." Does Peter mean "proof" in the sense of "evidence"? No. "Proof" in this passage means "
testing," not evidence. Peter isn't saying that believers must
give evidence of their faith, they must prove they're saved, but that their faith will be "put to the test" by "various trials." Peter, here, presupposes that those to whom he wrote had faith, not that it was in doubt whether or not they did and so needed to prove, or show, that they did. He wasn't suggesting that they might have lost their salvation and needed to give evidence that they hadn't.
Verse 9:
"obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls..."
"For by grace you have been saved by faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works..." Peter notes here that it is
by faith, not by works, that those to whom he was writing had obtained the "salvation of your souls." In this he agrees entirely with the apostle Paul, ruling out salvation by works in doing so.
Unless, by faith, we live a holy and righteous life before God, we will not take part in the Resurrection of Lord Jesus.
Romans 6:1-5 (WEB) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be!
We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5
For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection
Romans 5:18-21 to Romans 6:1-6 (NASB)
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
These two passages have been artificially separated from each other. Originally, there was no chapter break, dividing Paul's thought, but a single continuous line of reasoning. One cannot properly understand, then, the first part of
chapter 6 of
Romans apart from the immediate context of the end of
Romans 5.
Particularly when the two passages are taken together, a works-salvation view cannot be sustained from them.
Verse 18 (chapter 5):
"...through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men." As Paul does repeatedly throughout his various NT letters, he emphasizes in this verse the fact that the righteousness within which all believers stand before God - and in which they MUST stand, if they are to be accepted by Him - is
not their own righteousness but
the righteousness of Christ, extended to them via the "one act of righteousness," the atoning work of Christ on the cross, out of which resulted the "justification of life to all men." All believers obtain a right-standing before God, they are declared righteous (ie. justified) by Him, ONLY because of the atonement of Christ for their sin at Calvary. His sacrifice - and NOTHING ELSE - makes a person
perfectly righteous (
verse 19). And it is only such righteousness God will accept; it this righteousness that satisfies His standard and relieves us of the impossibility of meeting it with our own imperfect, finite righteousness. Under this circumstance that Paul describes, works-salvation is clearly ruled out.
Verse 20:
"...where sin increased, grace abounded all the more..." Here's a remark that the works-salvation folk don't like to talk about. If God's
grace abounds more in response to our sin, rather than His condemnation (
Romans 8:1), what fear is there of losing one's salvation? God's grace is far, far greater than all my sin, as the hymn says, and is not withdrawn by God when I sin but
expanded to cover my sin! This is so because of the perfection of Christ's atoning work on the cross, his shed blood cleansing us from
all sin. We can't exhaust the supply of grace we have been given in and through the eternal and infinite Jesus Christ our Saviour. But this quite fractures the idea that our righteousness is vital to our keeping our salvation. It is divine grace and the perfect righteousness of Christ upon which my salvation rests (
verse 21), not me and my flawed good works.
In light of all of these things, Paul wrote in a sort of surprised manner at the beginning of
chapter 6, wondering why on earth the Roman Christians were caught up in sin. All that was theirs in Christ, the grace given to them in Jesus, and the perfect justification, meant that they were now free from the power of sin.
He doesn't threaten the sinning Romans with the loss of their salvation, however, but instead wonders aloud at the incongruity of their sin with the truth of their union with Christ, with their identity in him. Paul's concern wasn't that the Roman believers would sin themselves out of their salvation but that they were acting out of character with who they were as people spiritually united with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, and living unnecessarily under the power of "the old man."
Verses 1, 2: "
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Paul doesn't say anything here about losing salvation. He says nothing about earning it, either. Shouldn't he, though, if works-salvation is true? Shouldn't he be warning the Roman Christians that they had sinned themselves out of God's family and had better return to sin-free living immediately?
Instead, Paul writes to the Romans as those who are "dead to sin and alive unto God through Jesus." His concern isn't that the Romans have sinned themselves out of the kingdom but that their sin requires divine grace to increase. Paul goes on to confirm the spiritual identity of the sinning Roman believers, explaining who they are in Christ, not how to get back into the family of God. He writes of accomplished spiritual fact, not of salvation the Romans have lost and must now retrieve, or that they must by their own efforts make a reality.
Here, then, are two of the passages you've offered as ground for a works-salvation perspective, neither of which at all support such a view. I don't have the time to do the same with each of the other Scripture references you've offered, but they all fail in more or less the same way to support a works-salvation doctrine.
