"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

BCsenior · Apr 18, 2021

aiki said:
Loss of salvation is nowhere threatened
anywhere in the NT.

So, you believe that BACs can be habitual unrepentant adulterers
until death and still go to heaven?
Or, do you think that God will convince them to repent before death?

Don't forget that all humans are created with free will.
And if they have been brainwashed re: OSAS eternal security,
they might just not be open to correction, thinking they're A-OK.

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

Hammster said:
Okay. Abraham believed God and was considered righteous, correct? But nothing was said that would be equivalent to our hearing the gospel today, and believing unto justification. So there’s no reason that Noah wasn’t justified in the same way.

They simply put God's will ahead of their own. The same simple thing Jesus said was expected of us.

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

Guojing said:
So its a different good news than what Abraham received in Genesis 15:5.

Everybody has their version of good news but Jesus spoke of only one (His Gospel of the Kingdom), that God would soon dwell among man permanently and the Adversary would be out of a job (along with a lot of churches and religions).

BCsenior · Apr 18, 2021

Michael Collum said:
I don't see a contradiction (in the 2 set of NT verses).

What level of belief do you think John 3:16 is talking about?

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

Hammster said:
Paul thinks differently. He only had one gospel. (See Galatians 1:6-10)

The same one Jesus taught mentioned in #503. (not just the partial one most mention)

Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God

Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

BCsenior · Apr 18, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
His death as an acceptable sacrifice-reconciliation.

It seems like you are trusting completely in what
God's grace did for you when you were FIRST saved.
But, INITIAL salvation is not FINAL salvation.
Because, for one reason ...
salvation is dependent on the process of sanctification.

In Romans 6:16-19, Paul makes it clear that:
--- being a slave of sin results in eternal death
--- being a slave of obedience results in righteousness
--- being a slave of righteousness results in holiness

I've actually had people say that Romans 6 does NOT apply to BACs.

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

BCsenior said:
But, INITIAL salvation is not FINAL salvation.

Yes. Which would comply with
Matthew 13:
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

It can be accepted but lost

Minister Monardo · Apr 18, 2021

BCsenior said:
I've actually had people say that Romans 6 does NOT apply to BACs.

I am not sure how that would work.

BCsenior said:
It seems like you are trusting completely in what
God's grace did for you when you were FIRST saved.
But, INITIAL salvation is not FINAL salvation.
Because, for one reason ...
salvation is dependent on the process of sanctification.

I do not believe that I contradicted this statement in any way.
Maybe you could go back and look at my entire post and not respond to one statement
while informing me of what I "seem to be trusting". There was much more to my post
than the one line you are quoting.

Guojing · Apr 18, 2021

timothyu said:
Everybody has their version of good news but Jesus spoke of only one (His Gospel of the Kingdom), that God would soon dwell among man permanently and the Adversary would be out of a job (along with a lot of churches and religions).

True, as long as you also recognize too that it was never meant for gentiles, Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, we are in agreement

aiki · Apr 18, 2021

BCsenior said:
So, you believe that BACs can be habitual unrepentant adulterers
until death and still go to heaven?

??? Why would I believe that? Such a person would, obviously, never have been saved.

BCsenior said:
Or, do you think that God will convince them to repent before death?

What do you think genuine spiritual regeneration does to a person, exactly?

BCsenior said:
Don't forget that all humans are created with free will.

Did I seem in danger of forgetting this?

BCsenior said:
And if they have been brainwashed re: OSAS eternal security,
they might just not be open to correction, thinking they're A-OK.

You seem to have a low view of the power of the Spirit at work in a born-again person.

Guojing · Apr 18, 2021

Hammster said:
The point is, it was THE gospel, not A gospel. So to Noah, he believed what was revealed to him in the same way Abraham believed.

What gospel do you think Abraham was preached to at genesis 15:5?

Are you assuming it was also 1 cor 15:1-4?

aiki · Apr 18, 2021

BCsenior said:
But, INITIAL salvation is not FINAL salvation.

Nowhere is this ever stated in Scripture. Never is the phrase "initial salvation" or "final salvation" ever used in the New Testament. This unbiblical language is merely a cover for works-salvation which the Bible flatly and repeatedly rejects. (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5)

Hazelelponi · Apr 18, 2021

BCsenior said:
Believe it, or not ...
I discovered years ago on Christian forums that
women tend to talk about NT doctrine in view of
their own particular life experiences!

I present NT verses for BACs in general ... for whomever
might benefit from it ... and women tend to make it personal.
Lord, whatever I present and to whomever it applies, let it help them!

It has little to do with "personal".. it's general.

Anyone who is not hanging onto Christ and His work for their salvation (like their lives depends on it) when they die are going to hell, period. It doesn't matter how many works someone does, it is only Christ who saves.

And that is the point your posts skip over... we need to be teaching people to be like the tax collector beating his breast begging Gods mercy, and not like the Pharisee head held high.

We aren't righteous, we all need a Messiah... a false sense of righteousness is just false.

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

Guojing said:
True, as long as you also recognize too that it was never meant for gentiles, Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, we are in agreement

But it does now and remains the same. Simply put... Kingdom special, not the Jew or Gentile.

Gregory Thompson · Apr 18, 2021

BCsenior said:
What level of belief do you think John 3:16 is talking about?

explain "level" - it's not a video game.

Guojing · Apr 18, 2021

timothyu said:
But it does now and remains the same. Simply put... Kingdom special, not the Jew or Gentile.

Show scripture in which the resurrected Christ explicitly told the 11 that his previous command in Matthew 10:5 no longer holds.

And no, the popular answer, Matthew 28:19 is not it. If it was, then Peter's reaction to Cornelius in Acts 10:28, and his response to the Jewish believers in Acts 11:4-17 will make no sense.

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

Guojing said:
Show scripture in which Jesus explicitly told the 11 that his previous command in Matthew 10:5 no longer holds.

Because the gentiles were brought into the fold. You know the books/scriptures.

Guojing said:
And no, the popular doctrine, Matthew 28:19 is not it. If it was, then Peter's reaction to Cornelius in Acts 10, and his response to the Jewish believers in Acts 11:4-17 will make no sense.

I agree that the nations were all 12 tribes of the House of Israel.

Guojing · Apr 18, 2021

timothyu said:
Because the gentiles were brought into the fold. You know the books/scriptures.

I agree that the nations were all 12 tribes of the House of Israel.

Still waiting for the scripture.

timothyu · Apr 18, 2021

Guojing said:
Still waiting for the scripture.

You don't need the scriptures (Ephesians) to know the Jews and Gentiles were united to become one in the Messiah. The council in Jerusalem had accepted Paul and the gentiles. Peter had been the first to speak to the gentiles. All were on Team Jesus. Nobody divvied up Jesus' teachings between the two at the time.

Guojing · Apr 18, 2021

timothyu said:
You don't need the scriptures (Ephesians) to know the Jews and Gentiles were united to become one in the Messiah. The council in Jerusalem had accepted Paul and the gentiles. Peter had been the first to speak to the gentiles. All were on Team Jesus. Nobody divvied up Jesus' teachings between the two at the time.

So you do agree that it was only until at least mid Acts, after Stephen was stoned, that things have changed.

Alright then we are in agreement.

"He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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