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If Noah had not obeyed, then it would have been a false faith, which is no genuine faith at all.
Enough of the Eisegesis/Exegesis fifty dollar words - please argue from scripture instead of arrogance. No scripture states that Holy Spirit regeneration precedes repentance. Peter in Acts 2:38-39 implores the crowd to act in "repentance and baptism" for the "remission of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit" - which arguably includes regeneration and salvation. If those convicted by the Holy Spirit were already regenerated before repentance, then it would be deceptive for Peter to say that they must repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.They were "cut to the heart," the Holy Spirit having already regenerated and convicted them. You can't get around the necessary process. First regeneration, then works. Therefore, repentance and baptism are necessary expressions of that heart that was already transformed.
I already stated that it is necessary but not sufficient.
It is a necessary effect.
Not a necessary cause.
Calvinism agrees with #2 on account of the wider Doctrine of Total Depravity, along with all the verses that support it. You cannot deny this without making a complete contradictory trainwreck of scripture.
You said:Calvinism can agree with #3 if (a.) the verse is stated from man's non-omniscient POV, and (b.) God is not rolling dice out of control. <-- God does not throw dice. God is always in-control.
Enough of the Eisegesis/Exegesis fifty dollar words
- please argue from scripture instead of arrogance. No scripture states that Holy Spirit regeneration precedes repentance.
Peter in Acts 2:38-39 implores the crowd to act in "repentance and baptism" for the "remission of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit" - which arguably includes regeneration and salvation.
If those convicted by the Holy Spirit were already regenerated before repentance, then it would be deceptive for Peter to say that they must repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Recognition of sin is not enough for salvation - witness Judas.
It is a necessary effect.
Not a necessary cause.
Interesting distinction you are making here, but either way, you are still saying that without works, one's faith cannot be genuine.
Isn't that the same as saying without works, faith will not be able to save you?
Jesus didn’t say that faith leads to regeneration.
A “belief” necessitates a “work of that belief” if one is serious about that belief.
For example: If Rick was serious in his belief in being a fire fighter, he would do the work of a fire fighter.
The same is true with a Christian's faith in Jesus Christ. If a person truly has “faith” in Jesus, they will in time do the “work of faith” that Paul talks about in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Why? Because the faith and the work of faith are connected. They are two sides of the same coin. For this is why faith without works is dead (James 2:17). This is why we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
No. Because it's judged retroactively. There's a huge difference between "front-loading" works to precede salvation, vs. "back-loading" as the proof of salvation.
Front-loading = Salvation by works, which contradicts Paul.
Back-loading = No contradictions.
#1 and #2 are tied together in that those who perish are perishing because they received not the love of the love of the truth.
That's a bit of a stretch. Nowhere does Paul suggest that he is referring from his earthly perspective.
That they might be saved shows that they did have a chance at salvation pure and simple.
Oh, so you are back-loading works into salvation.
No wonder, thanks for clarifying your doctrine.
You might find this discussion thread on another forum interesting
Back-loading Works into the Gospel:
Not a problem for me, you are free to hold whatever doctrine you want to hold for yourself.
Then I don't understand why you referred me to a twelve page thread in another internet forum somewhere else entirely.
You are misreading this. God told them to get new hearts. Later, in chapter 36, He says He will give them new hearts because they can’t do it themselves. So I’ve shown that you can’t please God in the flesh. You keep putting forth things that people can do that please God, but they are done in the flesh. It just doesn’t work that way.
That was when I learned for the first time what back loading works actually meant.
Then maybe you can cut through the 12 pages of extras and explain why it's bad.
Back loading works into salvation is a very common doctrine held by people who want to reconcile Paul with James, as I already stated earlier in this thread here "He who practices righteousness is righteous" (1 John 3:7)
For me, I prefer the clarity of Romans 4:5 and not try to sneak works into salvation thru the backdoor.
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