He stood at the door and knocks ...

[ananda]

When Messiah spoke to the Laodicean congregation (Rev 3:14-22), do you believe it is significant that He was standing outside the door, knocking for them to let Him in (v20)?

ἰδού, ἕστηκα ἐπὶ τὴν θύραν καὶ κρούω ἐάν τις ἀκούσῃ τῆς φωνῆς μου καὶ ἀνοίξῃ τὴν θύραν εἰσελεύσομαι πρὸς αὐτὸν καὶ δειπνήσω μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ

"See, I stood at the door and I knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I shall come in to him and shall dine with him, and he with Me."

 

[JRSut1000]

Of course, God doesnt force Himself on anyone and just barge right in. He may knock...a lot to get one's attention but He wont force anyone to accept and love Him.

 

[ananda]

Of course I guess what I would have assumed was that Messiah should have already been in the congregation, but I am reading that He implied that He was not, in the sense that He was knocking at their door!

 

[Lulav]

Very astute! I never looked at it that way before.

I remember years ago I volunteered to make some banners to decorate the space we were using for the Purim Spiel. As an artist I always have way too many ideas, but this time I had artists block (like writers blocks but not with words. ). The date came closer and closer and I couldn't settle on anything and it was starting to scare me, I didn't think I'd get it done in time. (The Lord knows I futz with things until the last moment and he didn't want me to have a second to spare, literally I was putting the finishing touches on them in the building only an hour or two before it started. )

But when he revealed to me what he wanted on those banners, one of them was that very verse. I didn't' question why, I guess being raised in the Church and seeing that picture by Warner Sallman three or four times a week it didn't register.

I changed the wording from 'sup' to 'Oneg' and Yeshua wasn't pictured , only the door but the words were there.

I think many think this is for unbelievers that visit the church to help in the calling but what if it's not? What if it's a subtle hint for those part of the congregation? Like in Laodecia, they thought they were part of the body, they were called a 'church', put they were also told that they could loose their place in the menorah.

 

[yedida]

When Messiah spoke to the Laodicean congregation (Rev 3:14-22), do you believe it is significant that He was standing outside the door, knocking for them to let Him in (v20)?

ἰδού, ἕστηκα ἐπὶ τὴν θύραν καὶ κρούω ἐάν τις ἀκούσῃ τῆς φωνῆς μου καὶ ἀνοίξῃ τὴν θύραν εἰσελεύσομαι πρὸς αὐτὸν καὶ δειπνήσω μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ καὶ αὐτὸς μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ

"See, I stood at the door and I knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I shall come in to him and shall dine with him, and he with Me."

I'm more of a person who looks at the words and the ways they are used. In this statement, if you've translated it correctly, two different tenses are used in one clause - I stood, I knock. There's something there too, a past tense to a present tense. Normally, it would be - I stand and I knock or I stood and I knocked - why the combination?

 

[Lulav]

to stand here brings a picture to mind that he was previously sitting. Was he upon the throne, and he had to get up?

Does the standing indicate waiting?

lots to ponder..........................

 

[yedida]

to stand here brings a picture to mind that he was previously sitting. Was he upon the throne, and he had to get up?

Does the standing indicate waiting?

lots to ponder..........................

That's just it, he doesn't use stand, which could be continuous. Instead, he uses stood, a thing done in the past and yet, he knocks which can be continuous also. As you pointed out, did he arise from the throne to stand in the past? Where is he now, if he stood but does no longer stand and yet still knocks......questions upon questions.....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

to stand here brings a picture to mind that he was previously sitting. Was he upon the throne, and he had to get up?

Does the standing indicate waiting?

lots to ponder..........................

I find it interesting that Stephen saw Jesus standing in Acts 7. Not sure if there is a significance to that or not

Matt 22:44 "Said the LORD to the Lord of Me 'be sitting out of rights/dexiwn <1188> of Me until ever I may be placing the enemies of Thee a footstool to Thy feet'.
[Psalm 119:1]

Acts 7:56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens having been opened and the Son of the Man standing/estwta <2476> (5761) out of rights/dexiwn <1188> of the God!"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7588224/#post58419173
Was Stephen a liar? or a prophet?

 

[brinny]

I find it interesting that Stephen saw Jesus standing in Acts 7. Not sure if there is a significance to that or not

Matt 22:44 "Said the LORD to the Lord of Me 'be sitting out of rights/dexiwn <1188> of Me until ever I may be placing the enemies of Thee a footstool to Thy feet'.
[Psalm 119:1]

Acts 7:56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens having been opened and the Son of the Man standing/estwta <2476> (5761) out of rights/dexiwn <1188> of the God!"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7588224/#post58419173
Was Stephen a liar? or a prophet?

Whoa! Awesome! Standing rather than sitting...that's powerfully meaningful!

 

[visionary]

I know that the Lord used that very verse for me to open up my heart/temple door and let Him in. He came and did sup with me in all His Holiness.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

That's just it, he doesn't use stand, which could be continuous. Instead, he uses stood, a thing done in the past and yet, he knocks which can be continuous also. As you pointed out, did he arise from the throne to stand in the past? Where is he now, if he stood but does no longer stand and yet still knocks......questions upon questions.....

Very interesting.
This interlinear I use also seems to agree with that. Thoughts?

[best to download to use the more advanced features of it]

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Reve 3:20 Behold! I have stood/stand upon the door and I am knocking.
If ever anyone should be hearing of the voice of Me, and should be up-opening the door, I shall be entering toward him, and I shall be dining with him and he with Me.

Greek NT - Textus Rec.) Revelation 3:20 idou esthka epi thn quran kai krouw
ean tiV akoush thV fwnhV mou kai anoixh thn quran eiseleusomai proV auton kai deipnhsw met autou kai autoV met emou

 

[ananda]

I'm more of a person who looks at the words and the ways they are used. In this statement, if you've translated it correctly, two different tenses are used in one clause - I stood, I knock. There's something there too, a past tense to a present tense. Normally, it would be - I stand and I knock or I stood and I knocked - why the combination? ... he doesn't use stand, which could be continuous. Instead, he uses stood, a thing done in the past and yet, he knocks which can be continuous also. As you pointed out, did he arise from the throne to stand in the past? Where is he now, if he stood but does no longer stand and yet still knocks......questions upon questions.....

Due to the nature of NT Greek, I believe both "stood" and "stand" are correct in context of the perfect active indicative word &#7957;&#963;&#964;&#951;&#954;&#945; in this verse. I chose "stood" in my translation because I believe the emphasis is on the action which Messiah completed in the past, but does not eliminate the connotation that his standing still continues to this day: "Messiah stood up in the past, and is standing now".

"Knock," &#954;&#961;&#959;&#8059;&#969;, however, is in the present tense: "Messiah is continuously knocking."

 

[yedida]

Whoa! Awesome! Standing rather than sitting...that's powerfully meaningful!

I used that very verse earlier today along with the Mt. 3 verses where Yeshua/God one and the same are concerned - those two verses just don't work.
Brinny, if you want an awesome description, check out the one in Rev. 1:12-16. Now that's awesome!!

 

[ananda]

... But when he revealed to me what he wanted on those banners, one of them was that very verse. ...
I changed the wording from 'sup' to 'Oneg' and Yeshua wasn't pictured , only the door but the words were there.

Thanks for sharing, Lulav! It is a verse that I keep close to my heart as well ...

I think many think this is for unbelievers that visit the church to help in the calling but what if it's not? What if it's a subtle hint for those part of the congregation? Like in Laodecia, they thought they were part of the body, they were called a 'church', put they were also told that they could loose their place in the menorah.

That's what I'm thinking ... it was hint mainly for the congregation, since the letter from Yeshua was addressed to them, no? ...

 

[ananda]

I know that the Lord used that very verse for me to open up my heart/temple door and let Him in. He came and did sup with me in all His Holiness.

Amein, He did the same for me with this verse as well

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Amein, He did the same for me with this verse as well

Me too

Btw, what do you mean by this under your user name? Just curious. Thanks

"Non-Pauline Messianic"

 

[visionary]

Me too

Btw, what do you mean by this under your user name? Just curious. Thanks

"Non-Pauline Messianic"

He doesn't need Paul to be a believer..

Now don't tell anyone.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He doesn't need Paul to be a believer..

Now don't tell anyone.

My lips are sealed

 

[yedida]

Due to the nature of NT Greek, I believe both "stood" and "stand" are correct in context of the perfect active indicative word &#7957;&#963;&#964;&#951;&#954;&#945; in this verse. I chose "stood" in my translation because I believe the emphasis is on the action which Messiah completed in the past, but does not eliminate the connotation that his standing still continues to this day: "Messiah stood up in the past, and is standing now".

"Knock," &#954;&#961;&#959;&#8059;&#969;, however, is in the present tense: "Messiah is continuously knocking."

I can live with that. I sometimes tear things apart due to the words chosen.....

 

[ananda]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Me too

Btw, what do you mean by this under your user name? Just curious. Thanks

"Non-Pauline Messianic"​

He doesn't need Paul to be a believer..

Now don't tell anyone.

My trust, faith, and obedience rests upon Messiah, not Paul.