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You obviously consider my posts to be wrong you asked me more than once to show that BDAG, ESV, Bible Hub etc. are wrong since I clearly disagree with them.Can you quote my words where I claimed that you were wrong?
What is the difference between a question and a statement? Please quote my words where I claimed that you are wrong.You obviously consider my posts to be wrong you asked me more than once to show that BDAG, ESV, Bible Hub etc. are wrong since I clearly disagree with them.
Do you understand the word "consider?" As in "You obviously consider my posts to be wrong,,,?"What is the difference between a question and a statement? Please quote my words where I claimed that you are wrong.
Let's focus.Do you understand the word "consider?" As in "You obviously consider my posts to be wrong,,,?"
How many times does Der Alte have to post the exact same paper to you for you to get that what you are working from is outdated? I'm Greek Orthodox and we updated our own translations to fit the meaning of the Greek:Let's focus.
You claim that translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically not justifiable.
Please prove your claim.
Let's focus on the logic.How many times does Der Alte have to post the exact same paper to you for you to get that what you are working from is outdated?
NO. And I'm done dealing with a fool who refuses to listen. You refuse to listen to anyone but yourself. Even though Der Alte and I are very much theologically different from each other, we still acknowledge that language and translations can be tweaked. Grasped was a poor choice of translation at least for today's English speaker and Der Alte has present enough information for you to accept that.Let's focus on the logic.
Let proposition P1 = Translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable.
True?
I said no such thing. Go back and carefully read my posts. I won't ask again. Neither you nor BDAG or any of the versions has taken into consideration two very important words "τὸ εἶναι"/to einai" as if they were not even there, which correctly translated means "the being." c.f. my post #28 above.Let's focus.
You claim that translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically not justifiable.
Please prove your claim.
Proposition P1 = Translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable.NO. And I'm done dealing with a fool who refuses to listen.
The premise is wrong. BDAG should read "In some circumstances translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable." Because the context of the word in Php 2:6 it is not grammatically correct to translate ἁρπαγμὸν as a thing to be grasped. To repeat in Php 2:6 in the phrase "τὸ εἶναι ἴσα Θεῷ" einai is V-PAN, verb, present active infinitive literally "the being equal [with] God" was a then and there present reality not something Jesus would have to take or grasp for. Scholars can be wrong.Proposition P1 = Translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable.
You have just claimed that P1 is false. Can you prove it? I am all ears
Let proposition P1 = Translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable in Philippians 2:6.The premise is wrong. BDAG should read "In some circumstances translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable."
Did you actually read the post you quoted? It appears not. Is that the only sentence in the BDAG entry for Arpagmon?Let proposition P1 = Translating ἁρπαγμὸν, as "a thing to be grasped" is grammatically justifiable in Philippians 2:6.
True?
P1 does not mention BDAG. Please stay focused if you can.Did you actually read the post you quoted? It appears not. Is that the only sentence in the BDAG entry for Arpagmon?
BDAG appears to contradict themselves. First they say "The articular infinitive is functioning as a direct object. Translating the article is thus not helpful." Then they translate "τὸ εἶναι"/to einai," "to be" a future tense vice present tense. "To einai is a present active infinitive which should be translated as "the being." Another case of old scholars stubbornly not wanting to give up their long held beliefs. According to my first Greek professor that was a problem translating the NIV. Jesus existed as equal to God, that equality was not something for Jesus to consider and decline as BDAG makes it appear. Is this not also essentially explained with kenoō in the next verse?A couple comments if I may:
- The articular infinitive is functioning as a direct object. Translating the article is thus not helpful.
- BDAG 2. As equal to ἅρπαγμα, someth. to which one can claim or assert title by gripping or grasping, someth. claimedw. change fr. abstr. to concr.
- Is this not essentially explained with kenoō in the next verse?
- Who, existing in [the] form of God regarded to be equal with God not something to claim/assert by gripping [it] (holding onto it) but He emptied Himself taking [the] form [of a] slave.
I don't think we are communicating. I thereby restBDAG appears to contradict themselves. First they say "The articular infinitive is functioning as a direct object. Translating the article is thus not helpful." Then they translate "τὸ εἶναι"/to einai," "to be" a future tense vice present tense. "To einai is a present active infinitive which should be translated as "the being." Another case of old scholars stubbornly not wanting to give up their long held beliefs. According to my first Greek professor that was a problem translating the NIV. Jesus existed as equal to God, that equality was not something for Jesus to consider and decline as BDAG makes it appear. Is this not also essentially explained with kenoō in the next verse?
Oh, surely not! I'm just this old dude over here who doesn't know what he is talking about. You should be able to quickly put me in my place and show how my posts are in error.I don't think we are communicating. I thereby rest
You've said this. I didn't; nor did this ever enter my mind. On the contrary, I've asked you to quote my words where I assert the above and you never did. This is all in your head—not my head. Continuing thinking like this would only hurt yourself. Jesus loves you, brother.Oh, surely not! I'm just this old dude over here who doesn't know what he is talking about. You should be able to quickly put me in my place and show how my posts are in error.
I have been hearing such warnings for longer than you have been alive but I'm still going strong. Bon Chance.You've said this. I didn't; nor did this ever enter my mind. On the contrary, I've asked you to quote my words where I assert the above and you never did. This is all in your head—not my head. Continuing thinking like this would only hurt yourself. Jesus loves you, brother.
GDL (another old guy BTW) made the comments re: the articular infinitive - not BDAG. Apology for any confusion.BDAG appears to contradict themselves. First they say "The articular infinitive is functioning as a direct object. Translating the article is thus not helpful." Then they translate "τὸ εἶναι"/to einai," "to be" a future tense vice present tense. "To einai is a present active infinitive which should be translated as "the being." Another case of old scholars stubbornly not wanting to give up their long held beliefs. According to my first Greek professor that was a problem translating the NIV. Jesus existed as equal to God, that equality was not something for Jesus to consider and decline as BDAG makes it appear. Is this not also essentially explained with kenoō in the next verse?
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