Have you done any good with your judging?

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

And I have seen just as many "fundies", "homophobes", "bigots", "haters", "literalists", "Bible-thumper" comments intended to impugn on this site and many others.

one who disagrees with the lifestyle is not a bigot or homophobe. one who uses derogatory terms or specifically seeks out to pick on that sin alone probably is.

Have you not seen how many times the gay people on this site call others bigoted or hate-filled?

yeah. Yeah I have. And as for those Non-Christian gays who do this, I can't say anything because they are not living that life. but for those who are Christian or claim to be, i expect that they are going to be an example of christ and not be mean and hateful. honest is one thing. mean and hateful is another.

Are we now talking about what society does or are we talking about this forum? If you want to go outside this forum, I can show you all sorts of attacks perpetrated by gays.

actually i'm talking about the christian community in general, but was using examples from here to give a clearer picture.

honestly, sir, I don't, personally, buy the "you say we did it, but look what they did"...it reminds me of my daughter when i tell her not to do something and she says "but you..." or "but suzy does this...".

We as a Christian community need to be responsible for ourselves and lead by example as best we can. We are not going to be perfect, but we should put forth our best effort.

For the purposes of THIS Christian forum, who has said that they hate gay people? Again, outside of this forum , I can show you numerous accounts of gay people expressing hate for those who point out gay sex acts as sinful.

can't name names, can't repost things. I already gave the quotes of things I have read. I have already recongized that it isn't everyone, but it's enough people here and in the general christian community that I wanted to discuss this. As you will see I don't frequent here often, because I find it oft times comes down to insults, but this was very disconcerting to me.

I catch what you're saying and am in agreement with you on this.

and that is 100% the point of this thread. There must be a better way then being so mean about it. And we need to check our christian brothers and sisters who use derogatory terms and insults.

As there is also a difference between being told that it is sin to run with a dish and I hate you because you run with dishes.

yes there is. that's what I'm saying.

But this is what people who are Christians need to get past. It does not matter what they think. We are judged by what God says.

See, to a degree I agree (hey it rhymes, sweet).

But, I also think that it is WRONG to be a bad example and have them thinking we are hateful people, because we are acting like it (or there are enough of us acting like it to give that impression). If we are not setting the correct example, then we are dishonoring God and the Sacrifice. IMO.

What He says is the standard of righteous judgment by which Christians are to teach, correct, rebuke and train in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16

As a Christian who has placed your faith in Jesus Christ, you should KNOW that His Word is TRUTH because He says so and HE cannot lie.

MMM...he CAN lie. He SHOULDN'T. But he can...cause he has free will and is still a fleshly being.

There is NOTHING for you to prove if you are a Christian. You trust Christ and HE has given His Word.

This goes right back to folks saying they are Christians but lacking the faith that God is big enough to keep simple little men from changing His Word.

off topic, moving along lol.

You know as I have said, and I haven't been around to read every thread, but I haven't seen any Christian in this forum say that they hate gays. So where is this idea of hatred coming from Christians coming from?

If I say what God's Word says about the sin being committed, why is that hatred other than the fact that God hates sin?

I didn't say it was....I said read the rest of my posts and you will see that I have not said that....I'm talking about those who ARE hateful. I am not singling you out at all...I'm speaking in generalities of what I have seen on or around here and in the christian community.

See. Why would you even say that without knowing what God's Word says about judging? As it stands, there is no Biblical support for you to say that none can righteously judge but God when His Word shows just the opposite.

And when Christ was with sinners, HE witnessed Himself. He is truth and that's what Christians are to witness. many in this forum don't want to hear the truth.

I say that because I know it is true, though I know some disagree with them. I don't see anywhere it says in the bible that we should judge one another. If someone asks me if I believe something is a sin, then I will, yes, judge that action, based on my knowlege of scripture and what I know from prayer, as sin or no sin. But I will not judge that person. Because I have yet to fully remove the plank from my eye.

And as I have said, I haven't seen any Christian expressing hatred of any person. Hatred for sin maybe. But not hatred of a person.

If gays don't want to be discriminated against because of their orientation, then they need to stop assuming that people hate them because of that orientation.

sorry to say..they do have people hate them for their orientation....

Then WHY talk to them at all? If you saying something to them can't draw them to Christ, why be a jerk and pick on them? Why not just say "they will or they won't, it's up to them" Why witness? Why preach? Why try at all?

Click to expand...

14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" Romans 10:14-15

The Christian is the instrument tht Christ uses to deliver His Word that makes men free. Christ draws men unto Himself via truth and the truth is to be delivered by the people of God. That truth is His Word, The Good News.

[/QUOTE]

But you just said that no one can draw a person closer to Christ and now it seems you are saying they can...I think they can...but I'm confused on your point.

It convicts the heart and shows man why He needs a Savior.

So can love and charity. There is more to being a good Witness then just pointing out other people's sins.

That's your way. In fact that is the way of a lot of men. That is not God's way. Who cares what the nonChristian thinks of Christianity? Christ wants the nonChristian to confess sin and repent and place his faith in Him.

It is not God's way to show love and caring for those who are in need? For those who have fallen short or been rejected? It is not God's way to do this? Then I do not know your God.

Yes Christ wants that...so do I want that for Him...but I know that pointing out sin after sin is not the best or only way to teach a person.

And many people, like some on this board, can't get to that point because they accept God's delivered truth as hateful and then somebody else becomes their excuse for not letting the truth of God's Word sift them.

I don't think it's hateful. I think the actions of others are hateful.

Biblically( and I can give you full Biblical support of this whereas you can't for the way you're preposing) pointing out their wrong is an act of love because if it is righteously done, it is done in obedience to what God says to do.

Yeah, it is, but that's not all there is to it and there comes that point where what should be love is actually self-righteousness and it becomes wrong and not helpful.

Maybe just be a shoulder for a person and then they will trust you. Then when they ask you or when you need to tell them, they know it is out of love then running around like a nutjob going "sinner! sinner! sinner!"

No one realizes the need for a Savior until he recognizes that there is a sin problem in his life. And sitting around and letting people continue to sin without correcting them is not going to show them why they need a Savior.

that's your opinion. recognition of Sin was not what led me to God. recognition of sin is what came after I found Him.

And again, as for the derogatory terms, I don't condone it coming from anyone. If God's word assigns a name to an action that's what I'll call it. If God's Word assigns a title to someone based upon what they are doing, then that's what I'll refer to the person as. Otherwise, I call people by their screen name.

biblical translations are not God's actual words...they are translations of whatever oldest text we make up the words for. IMO.

Joe is a father, a brother, a son, a construction worker, a volunteer, a cancer survivor. and oh year he is gay. So we have to call him a Gay? How about calling him a Man, a Person, a Human or just Joe?

Now you know you don't believe that someone is helping others to a HOLY GOD by encouraging them to sin.

OH MY GOODNESS!!!! WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT ENCOURAGING THEM TO SIN?

You're responding to this based upon something I did not say you said.

[/quote]

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

UberLutheran said:
Calming down... [somehow, I don't think I took yesterday's news as well as I thought I did!]

Oh, sure -- there were several times when I encountered really nasty, judgmental, vindictive "Christians" when I threw my hands up in sheer disgust and said, "Fine, God: if those are your followers then I want nothing to do with Christianity and I want nothing to do with You!" and God and I went about our separate ways.

Of course, it didn't take long for me to run into a wall (spiritually speaking) and so I'd end up coming right back and I'd reconcile with God; and after a few times of that I realized it was just easier for all concerned if I didn't leave in the first place.

Maybe this is one of the advantages of middle age, but I've come to realize that I can no more stop being a Christian than I can stop breathing. Oh, I may be able to hold my breath until I pass out -- but eventually, I will start breathing again and I've come to realize I depend on God the way I depend on my next breath.

so imagine if you didn't have your faith first...i would expect you never would have even came to a church?

brightmorningstar · Aug 8, 2007

Dear Dawnsday,
With reference to your OP.

I see a million posts about "gays are sinners" blah blah blah. But, here is a question for all of you who are so stuck on picking on the Gay community.

I thought Christians believed all are sinners and fall short, some Christians who believe this also have same-sex attraction.ie homosexuals.
Are you saying gays are not sinners?

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

brightmorningstar said:
Dear Dawnsday,
With reference to your OP.

I thought Christians believed all are sinners and fall short, some Christians who believe this also have same-sex attraction.ie homosexuals.
Are you saying gays are not sinners?

no, i think that line came out wrong. it's more the specific attack on homosexuality i was speaking of...okay gays are sinners...all people are sinners...but i'm more specifically meaning those who see being a Gay person as the most horrible thing ever and constantly talking down to them.

i feel that the way that came out was messed up. read the rest of my comments and i think it will be clearer.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

UberLutheran said:
Not according to Zaac.

Actually, to answer your question: I grew up in an ultra-fundamentalist Christian family and I did the "altar call" and baptism by immersion when I was 13 (story about my baptism: it was in the middle of January and whoever filled the baptismal font forgot to add warm water, so I was baptized in 34 degree water!). I left my fundamentalist Baptist church when I was 14 because I could not reconcile an absolutely literal interpretation of Scripture with things which could not possibly be true, e.g., talking snakes, talking donkeys, dragons, sea monsters, the earth ceasing to rotate for a day, etc. so I began a move towards denominations which had a less literal theology.

Some things, like Christ being conceived by the Holy Spirit, borne of the Virgin Mary, suffering under Pontius Pilate, being crucified, died and buried, ascending from the dead, the communion of saints, forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting, and the elements of bread and wine becoming the Body and Blood of Christ during the Eucharist, are things I accept absolutely.

I could no more stop being a Christian than I could will myself to stop breathing (though I really do get tired of some fundamentalists who insist that they, and they alone have the only way and that anyone who doesn't live the way they do or think the way they do is doomed and damned and going to Hell).

So you accept the Eucharist but you don't think it's possible for God to literally make a donkey talk?

brightmorningstar · Aug 8, 2007

Dear Dawnsday,
Ah ok sorry, thanks for the clarification. No I dont think so in general, the idea of the condmenation comes from what God's word says, people objecting to God's word.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

UnitedInChrist said:
No big surprise here with Zaac. He's a Southern Baptist from Georgia. Is his behavior shocking on here? or is he simply being a Southern Baptist?

It would be a shame if on a Christian Forum people were shocked to hear someone espouse the Word of God.

I find much of what he states to be extremely judgemental, and self-righteous, but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and looks like a duck....it's a duck.

Good because I am called of God to righteously judge. You made a judgment in making your statement. So is it okay for you to judge, but not me?

So basically, you get what you pay for. Hence the jokes that center around the Baptists which typically stereotype them as the only ones who think they're going to heaven.....ladies and gentlemen...meet Zaac

That's also called a flame.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

UberLutheran said:
I'm a liberal Christian. We only do and think what our pastors tell us to do and think.

Then I guess your question won't be answered.

UnitedInChrist · Aug 8, 2007

Zaac said:
It would be a shame if on a Christian Forum people were shocked to hear someone espouse the Word of God.

Good because I am called of God to righteously judge. You made a judgment in making your statement. So is it okay for you to judge, but not me?

That's also called a flame.

the shock (which isn't for me) are so called christians that SPEW hatred .. and THEN call it "the Word of God"...that my friend is the nice little neat cover you pretend to fold your bigotry in. that's all..so I call you on it just like I AM called to do.

UberLutheran · Aug 8, 2007

dawnsday said:
so imagine if you didn't have your faith first...i would expect you never would have even came to a church?

You know -- yours are some of the most intelligent and honest questions I've seen come through on this board in quite awhile!

I know a lot of gay people who have rejected the church and Christianity because of the really rotten way they were treated. People who covered their behavior in "loving the sinner and hating the sin" were so despicable in how they went about "loving the sinner" that they alienated these gay people from the church, and God, and Jesus, and Christianity.

I realized I had "teh ghey" when I was eight and ran across two of the "clobber passages" (Leviticus 18 and Romans 1:26-32). I tried ignoring it (didn't work), praying it away (didn't work, either), trying to "be straight" (nobody believed me), mortification of the flesh (it hurt a lot, but I was still gay), and even suicide (the belt broke) and when I finally realized that "teh ghey" wasn't going away no matter how many times I turned my life over to Jesus, I might as well just accept it and accept the fact that I was not the very first gay person ever to appear in Christianity.

If I had been raised in a non-religious family -- I'm really not sure where I would stand with regards to Christianity.

I have been told many times that the reason I'm a non-literalist Christian is because I'm "trying to justify my sinful lifestyle". Actually, the real reason I'm a non-literalist Christian has to do with trying to reconcile an understanding of the world which is 2,000 to 6,000 years old with how we understand the world today; and the fact that people 6,000 years ago believed in dragons and sea monsters and talking snakes and talking donkeys does not mean there are (or ever have been ) dragons, sea monsters, talking snakes and talking donkeys -- but the stories which contain those elements are hardly irrelevant and there may be a great deal of actual, big-"T" Truth in a story about Jonah who was supposedly swallowed by a whale and spit up on land - and that truth might be that stiff-necked and self-righteous Jonah couldn't accept the fact that God had mercy enough to forgive Nineveh, but he still expected God to be merciful enough provide a shade tree to comfort Jonah!

UberLutheran · Aug 8, 2007

Zaac said:
So you accept the Eucharist but you don't think it's possible for God to literally make a donkey talk?

The larynx of a donkey is designed for saying, "Hee-haw!", not "Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg".

A donkey is doing very well if it can understand the commands, "Stop!" "Go!" "Left" and "Right" when on the lake near Webster, Massachusetts.

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

Good because I am called of God to righteously judge. You made a judgment in making your statement. So is it okay for you to judge, but not me?

judging someTHING is wholey different then judging someONE.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

yeah. Yeah I have. And as for those Non-Christian gays who do this, I can't say anything because they are not living that life. but for those who are Christian or claim to be, i expect that they are going to be an example of christ and not be mean and hateful. honest is one thing. mean and hateful is another.

That's just it. It's the same ones who are saying they are Christian and gay who are doing most of the name calling.

honestly, sir, I don't, personally, buy the "you say we did it, but look what they did"...it reminds me of my daughter when i tell her not to do something and she says "but you..." or "but suzy does this...".

It wasn't a tit-for-tat. Just an illustration that what you keep saying you're seeing from Christians in here I have not seen. But like i said, I'm not in every thread. But the ones I have seen calling all the names are the ones who say they are Christian and gay.

We as a Christian community need to be responsible for ourselves and lead by example as best we can. We are not going to be perfect, but we should put forth our best effort.

Requires that people live in accordance with God's Word.

But, I also think that it is WRONG to be a bad example and have them thinking we are hateful people, because we are acting like it (or there are enough of us acting like it to give that impression). If we are not setting the correct example, then we are dishonoring God and the Sacrifice. IMO.

Absolutely. But look at Uber for example. Contrary to what he thinks, I never said anything to Him that is in disagreement with God's Word. But because I espouse that which is in stark contrast to what he thinks, he makes even more of his sarcastic little snipes. Now I don't care cause that's how he answers everyone he disagrees with. But you haven't seen me try to belittle gay people the way that he and others try to belittle any Christian who does not agree with their pro-commit same sex sexual acts viewpoint.

MMM...he CAN lie. He SHOULDN'T. But he can...cause he has free will and is still a fleshly being.

That was a reference to God not being able to lie.

off topic, moving along lol.

On the contrary. It was very much on topic. we preach because that is the way the world will hear the truth. That is why we talk to them. We preach and give them God's Word, and through the giving of HIS WORDS and not our own, He may set men free by drawing them unto Himself.

I say that because I know it is true, though I know some disagree with them. I don't see anywhere it says in the bible that we should judge one another. If someone asks me if I believe something is a sin, then I will, yes, judge that action, based on my knowlege of scripture and what I know from prayer, as sin or no sin. But I will not judge that person. Because I have yet to fully remove the plank from my eye.

Would you like for me to add some clarity to the judging issue for you because that is DEFINITELY wrong. Everybody stops with Matthew 7:1 while paying no attention to Matthew 7:2-5. He says FIRST remove the plank ...and THEN you will see clearly to remove the speck...

Hes not saying you can't judge. He's showing you how to RIGHTEOUSLY judge instead of hypocritically judging.

But I can show you this in another thread.

sorry to say..they do have people hate them for their orientation....

And some of them hate any Christian who tells them that they are sinning.

My point is that it is best to stick to the specific of this forum.

But you just said that no one can draw a person closer to Christ and now it seems you are saying they can...I think they can...but I'm confused on your point.

No one can. All man can do is share the truth of God's Word. Jesus does the drawing unto Himself.

So can love and charity. There is more to being a good Witness then just pointing out other people's sins.

Why would you separate what God says to do in obedience to Him as anything other than loving or charitable?

It is not God's way to show love and caring for those who are in need? For those who have fallen short or been rejected? It is not God's way to do this? Then I do not know your God.

And this is yet another point. You assume that just because someone is pointing out sin as sin that it is not an act of love when anything done in obedience to God is an act of love.

I wouldn't want to go to hell or miss out on God's best because I was mired in sin. How can I say that I love my neighbor as myself if I leave him to his devices to continue in sin that leads to death? I don't do that to myself so why would I do less for another?

Yes Christ wants that...so do I want that for Him...but I know that pointing out sin after sin is not the best or only way to teach a person.

That's your opinion. The Word of God says to point it out, and the people of God have to trust that God knows more about what the best way is than do men.

I don't think it's hateful.

I'm just telling you what they call it. Again, look at what Uber said. He thinks that I as a Christian wouldn't pray for his condition just because I say God's Word says this and he thinks it says something else.

Yeah, it is, but that's not all there is to it and there comes that point where what should be love is actually self-righteousness and it becomes wrong and not helpful.

If they are continuing to say that sin is not sin, why is there a problem with saying that God says it is?

Maybe just be a shoulder for a person and then they will trust you. Then when they ask you or when you need to tell them, they know it is out of love then running around like a nutjob going "sinner! sinner! sinner!"

Not even an issue as the majority of the folks in here aren't looking for that support. They are looking for like-minded people to tell them that their sin is not sin. And they get that and occasionally they get a nongay personto cosign with them.

that's your opinion. recognition of Sin was not what led me to God. recognition of sin is what came after I found Him.

Ungh ungh. That's not Biblical. There can be no salvation without repentance. And if you didn't repentant of your sins, it is impossible to have come to Christ.

The Scriptures speak of "repentance unto life" (Acts 11:18). We turn from sin to the Savior. This is why Paul preached "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). The first public word Jesus preached was "repent" (Matthew 4:17). John the Baptist began his ministry the same way (Matthew 3:2). Jesus told His hearers that without repentance, they would perish (Luke 13:3).

biblical translations are not God's actual words...they are translations of whatever oldest text we make up the words for. IMO.

You're borderline blaspheming about something that you are showing yourself to not completely understand. Don't be that stumbling block to another

[

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

UnitedInChrist said:
the shock (which isn't for me) are so called christians that SPEW hatred

See what I mean dawnsday. You say anything against their viewpoint and you're spewing hate.

.. and THEN call it "the Word of God"...that my friend is the nice little neat cover you pretend to fold your bigotry in.

And yet again, because it does not say what he wants it to say, it's my bigotry.

Like I said before dawn, the only ones I have seen calling anyone names are the pro-homosexual fornication people.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

dawnsday said:
judging someTHING is wholey different then judging someONE.

Precisely. And that is the very point that has been made repeatedly when people say I can't judge them.

The Christian has it on God's authority to righteously judge the ACTS of people. Not the people, but the ACTS. It is the ACTS that are pointed out as sin.

Final judgment of the person is reserved for God.

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

Zaac said:
That's just it. It's the same ones who are saying they are Christian and gay who are doing most of the name calling.

It wasn't a tit-for-tat. Just an illustration that what you keep saying you're seeing from Christians in here I have not seen. But like i said, I'm not in every thread. But the ones I have seen calling all the names are the ones who say they are Christian and gay.

Requires that people live in accordance with God's Word.

Absolutely. But look at Uber for example. Contrary to what he thinks, I never said anything to Him that is in disagreement with God's Word. But because I espouse that which is in stark contrast to what he thinks, he makes even more of his sarcastic little snipes. Now I don't care cause that's how he answers everyone he disagrees with. But you haven't seen me try to belittle gay people the way that he and others try to belittle any Christian who does not agree with their pro-commit same sex sexual acts viewpoint.

That was a reference to God not being able to lie.

On the contrary. It was very much on topic. we preach because that is the way the world will hear the truth. That is why we talk to them. We preach and give them God's Word, and through the giving of HIS WORDS and not our own, He may set men free by drawing them unto Himself.

Would you like for me to add some clarity to the judging issue for you because that is DEFINITELY wrong. Everybody stops with Matthew 7:1 while paying no attention to Matthew 7:2-5. He says FIRST remove the plank ...and THEN you will see clearly to remove the speck...

Hes not saying you can't judge. He's showing you how to RIGHTEOUSLY judge instead of hypocritically judging.

But I can show you this in another thread.

And some of them hate any Christian who tells them that they are sinning.

My point is that it is best to stick to the specific of this forum.

No one can. All man can do is share the truth of God's Word. Jesus does the drawing unto Himself.

Why would you separate what God says to do in obedience to Him as anything other than loving or charitable?

And this is yet another point. You assume that just because someone is pointing out sin as sin that it is not an act of love when anything done in obedience to God is an act of love.

I wouldn't want to go to hell or miss out on God's best because I was mired in sin. How can I say that I love my neighbor as myself if I leave him to his devices to continue in sin that leads to death? I don't do that to myself so why would I do less for another?

That's your opinion. The Word of God says to point it out, and the people of God have to trust that God knows more about what the best way is than do men.

I'm just telling you what they call it. Again, look at what Uber said. He thinks that I as a Christian wouldn't pray for his condition just because I say God's Word says this and he thinks it says something else.

If they are continuing to say that sin is not sin, why is there a problem with saying that God says it is?

Not even an issue as the majority of the folks in here aren't looking for that support. They are looking for like-minded people to tell them that their sin is not sin. And they get that and occasionally they get a nongay personto cosign with them.

Ungh ungh. That's not Biblical. There can be no salvation without repentance. And if you didn't repentant of your sins, it is impossible to have come to Christ.

The Scriptures speak of "repentance unto life" (Acts 11:18). We turn from sin to the Savior. This is why Paul preached "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21). The first public word Jesus preached was "repent" (Matthew 4:17). John the Baptist began his ministry the same way (Matthew 3:2). Jesus told His hearers that without repentance, they would perish (Luke 13:3).

You're borderline blaspheming about something that you are showing yourself to not completely understand. Don't be that stumbling block to another

[

okay. i'm done. because most of how you replied to me had nothing to do with what i was saying and i'm darned tired.

you keep arguing with me like i'm saying you can't say this or that is a sin to show someone God's word and truth. I have not said anything CLOSE to that.

I am talking only about methods.

It's obvious you and I have seen different things around here.

AND I hate to be a brat about this but, I started this thread so if I want to include the what people and I have seen in the General Christian Community, I can so stop telling me not to.

THE TOPIC IS: WHEN WE JUDGE PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE GAY IN A DISRESPECTFUL AND HATEFUL MANNER AS I HAVE BEEN WITNESS TO AND POSED EXAMPLES OF, DOES IT NOT LEAD THEM AWAY FROM ANY INTEREST IN CHRISTIANITY?

IF SO, IS THERE NOT A BETTER WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. PERHAPS WE CAN CHANGE OUR WORDS. PERHAPS IT IS A CONDESENDING TONE THAT WE COULD DO WITHOUT (she says with a condesending tone lol) WHO HAS SOMETHING ON TOPIC TO SHARE????

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

Zaac said:
See what I mean dawnsday. You say anything against their viewpoint and you're spewing hate.

And yet again, because it does not say what he wants it to say, it's my bigotry.

Like I said before dawn, the only ones I have seen calling anyone names are the pro-homosexual fornication people.

please, as I asked others to not personally attack you, I would appreciate it if you don't personally attack others.

And I believe what he meant was how "many so-called christians that he has met..."

but see what happens when the wording gets messed up.

many so-called christians i know have spewed hatred towards homosexuals.

not all, maybe not even most.

but it's a truth that is out there that must change if we are to call ourselves the body of christ.

dawnsday · Aug 8, 2007

Zaac said:
Precisely. And that is the very point that has been made repeatedly when people say I can't judge them.

The Christian has it on God's authority to righteously judge the ACTS of people. Not the people, but the ACTS. It is the ACTS that are pointed out as sin.

Final judgment of the person is reserved for God.

You can't judge THEM.

you judge a decision, an action, but best be careful in even doing that, and ensure you are not in your own way committing that same sin...because most people are quick to justify their harsh behaviors, their mistakes or their actions, yet pick on those of others.

it's why i started the POST A SIN thread...so people can check themselves more often then they are getting into other people's business.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

dawnsday said:
you keep arguing with me like i'm saying you can't say this or that is a sin to show someone God's word and truth. I have not said anything CLOSE to that.

SUre you have. You're talking bout what you see to be the case and I'm telling you what I see to be the case.

AND I hate to be a brat about this but, I started this thread so if I want to include the what people and I have seen in the General Christian Community, I can so stop telling me not to.

You starting the thread doesn't give you license to tell anyone else what they can say. And it does not prohibit me from saying that just because you've seen it in the General Community or outside that it is the case in this forum.

You can't bias your supposition and not expect someone to speak against it if they have not seen what you're supposing.

THE TOPIC IS: WHEN WE JUDGE PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE GAY IN A DISRESPECTFUL AND HATEFUL MANNER AS I HAVE BEEN WITNESS TO AND POSED EXAMPLES OF, DOES IT NOT LEAD THEM AWAY FROM ANY INTEREST IN CHRISTIANITY?

And that was answered. You also made other statements that were refuted.

IF SO, IS THERE NOT A BETTER WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. PERHAPS WE CAN CHANGE OUR WORDS. PERHAPS IT IS A CONDESENDING TONE THAT WE COULD DO WITHOUT (she says with a condesending tone lol) WHO HAS SOMETHING ON TOPIC TO SHARE????

[/QUOTE]

It has nothing to do with the words. I've been talking to folks for a lonnnnnnnnnnng time. The problem is with God's Word. Folks either don't think the Bible is God's Word or they don't want anyone telling them what to do.

But ultimately, the problem is that they have a problem with God's Word, and contrary to what you're seeing, they are the ones throwing barbs at the ones who are aligned with God's Word.

Zaac · Aug 8, 2007

dawnsday said:
You can't judge THEM.

Didn't I say that?

you judge a decision, an action, but best be careful in even doing that, and ensure you are not in your own way committing that same sin

Didn't I say that too in explaining the difference between righteous judgment and hypocritical judgment?

Have you done any good with your judging?

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