Have you been immersed (baptized) in water?

[holyrokker]

He who says, "I know him," and does not keep his commandments , is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1John2:4)

Its about obedience. If Jesus says to get baptized then you get baptized.

You can argue later about its relationship to salvation and its significance or symbolism.

Don't let your theology get in your way of actually following his commandments

Where did Jesus command immersion baptism?

 

[holyrokker]

interestingly enough the river Jordan is symbolic of death - the crossing from the worldly life to eternal life
the Israelites had to pass over Jordan before they could enter the promise land - we must pass through death (burial signified in baptism) to pass into the promised land of eternal life in Christ Jesus .
which we do in the act of obedience by faith .. what hinders us ? = disobedience .

but you have tried to split hairs to avoid acknowledgement of the need of obedience. The scriptures directly instruct to be baptized by faith into his death (and distinctly does NOT specify it must take place at a certain location ) that by faith we may be raised up into his righteousness that no one may say they have done any thing to obtain righteousness but it is by the grace of God through faith and faith is demonstrated by obedience .that ALL GLORY may be GODS.

why fight it ?.. just do it and receive the joy that unceasingly results from obedience .

I'm not avoiding anything. You claimed that we should follow Jesus' example.
The Jordan River is symbolic?
Is baptism also symbolic?
Do we literally die when we a "baptized into his death"? Jesus actually died.

 

[revrobor]

Where did Jesus command immersion baptism?

The English word baptism comes from the Greek word baptiso which means immersion.

 

[TheMightyTurtle]

The English word baptism comes from the Greek word baptiso which means immersion.

In addition, aren't we supposed to strive to be like Christ? Wasn't Christ immersed?

 

[Michaelismyname]

I'm not avoiding anything. You claimed that we should follow Jesus' example.
The Jordan River is symbolic?
Is baptism also symbolic?
Do we literally die when we a "baptized into his death"? Jesus actually died.

outer baptism is symbolic of death and is done in obedience to God "by faith"

may I ask what point you are trying to make ?
what is your motivation ?to argue against obedience to God
or to promote it ?

 

[FlowerGirl18]

Yes, I have been baptized in water. To me, it was a public statement that I decided to devote my entire life to God, a covenant with him.

 

[holyrokker]

outer baptism is symbolic of death and is done in obedience to God "by faith"

may I ask what point you are trying to make ?
what is your motivation ?to argue against obedience to God
or to promote it ?

I've been told that we need to follow the example of Jesus, who was baptized in the Jordan, though He wasn't "born again". We don't have to be baptized in the Jordan, but we still need to be immersed; and it has to happen after we've been "born again". But if we don't get baptized by immersion, then we are disobedient to a command that was never given by Jesus.
At the same time this required baptism is symbolic of a symbolic identification with the actual death of Christ.
So We don't actually die like Jesus, but we have to be baptized like Jesus; but not exactly like Jesus was baptized.

 

[holyrokker]

In addition, aren't we supposed to strive to be like Christ? Wasn't Christ immersed?

Jesus also walked on water. Do we need to do that too?
Jesus was also crucified. De we need to do that too?

 

[holyrokker]

The English word baptism comes from the Greek word baptiso which means immersion.

But where is the command from Jesus?

 

[FlowerGirl18]

Jesus also walked on water. Do we need to do that too?
Jesus was also crucified. De we need to do that too?

Um... Not trying to intervene or anything, but let me say a couple things. The fact that Jesus walks on water means that he had amazing faith and trusted his Father completely and fully, without doubt. When he died on the cross, he showed his everlasting, boundless love. So yes, we do need to follow his example. While it may not always mean trying to copy his exact actions, we need to strive for what these actions stand for.

As for why we need to be baptized as believers, does John 3:5 not explain it enough?

 

[holyrokker]

Um... Not trying to intervene or anything, but let me say a couple things. The fact that Jesus walks on water means that he had amazing faith and trusted his Father completely and fully, without doubt. When he died on the cross, he showed his everlasting, boundless love. So yes, we do need to follow his example. While it may not always mean trying to copy his exact actions, we need to strive for what these actions stand for.

As for why we need to be baptized as believers, does John 3:5 not explain it enough?

Thank you for your well thought-out response. You've pointed out a difference between following Christ's example and copying his exact actions. Being baptized because Jesus was baptized is an example of copying His action. He didn't give us a mandate to be baptized. His baptism was part of His larger ministry of reconciliation between us and God.

John 3:5 isn't a reference to baptism. Jesus is using an expression familiar to Nicodemus. If a Gentile wished to become a Jew, one step in the process was to take part in a ceremonial cleansing, called a Mitkvah.

Nicodemus assumed he was safe with God because he was born a Jew. Gentiles who converted were "adopted" Jews through the Mitkvah, but were considered inferior.

Jesus was telling Nicodemus that a person can only be right with God by being born of the Spirit. Neither being born a Jew, nor converting to Judaism could make someone right with God.

 

[FlowerGirl18]

Hi and thank you for the response. I never really thought of it this way, and it offered me some further insight into the passage. Which I really appreciate, since I love digging deeper into God's Word. It can't always be done without the help of the fellow believers. Thank you again!

What I wanted to say, though, is that by being baptized in water Jesus showed us that we are to give our lives to God when we are ready. Being immersed is but a way of showing this covenant between you and God to others. It does not purify you of sin, only Christ's blood does, nor does it change anything in you. A lot of people find water baptism a good way to testify and witness to the world that they have given their lives to Jesus, but if someone feels like they can do it without being immersed, then so be it, I think. Like I said, it is not the exact actions of Christ that are to be followed, but what lies behind those actions. Like devotion, faith, love, and many other things. I hope my point is clear.

 

[ebedmelech]

But where is the command from Jesus?

John the Baptist, prepared the way for Jesus and taught the "baptism of repentance". This is seen in John 1:26-28:
26 John answered them saying, “ I baptize in water, but among you stands One whom you do not know.
27 It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.”
28 These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

John the baptist baptized Jesus after that. Matthew 3:13-17 gives us the baptism of Jesus:
13 Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”
15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he *permitted Him.

16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “ This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

Jesus began His ministry, and the disciples baptized people. After Jesus death and resurrection he told the disciples this before He ascended to heaven:
Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “ All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

That is the command to baptize. That is why churches baptize.

 

[Michaelismyname]

John the Baptist, prepared the way for Jesus and taught the "baptism of repentance". This is seen in John 1:26-28:
26 John answered them saying, “ I baptize in water, but among you stands One whom you do not know.
27 It is He who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.”
28 These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

John the baptist baptized Jesus after that. Matthew 3:13-17 gives us the baptism of Jesus:
13 Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”
15 But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he *permitted Him.

16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, 17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “ This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

Jesus began His ministry, and the disciples baptized people. After Jesus death and resurrection he told the disciples this before He ascended to heaven:
Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “ All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

That is the command to baptize. That is why churches baptize.

thank you for highlighting the answer to the posters question of "where is the command " by the lord Jesus

 

[holyrokker]

Matthew 28:18-20:
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “ All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

That is the command to baptize. That is why churches baptize.

But this is not a command to be baptized, and shouldn't be taken as such.

The "command" is to make disciples. Two aspects of this activity are baptizing the disciples and teaching them to observe His commands.

 

[Michaelismyname]

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.

commanded you as in what he just told them to DO

-again I ask .. what is the motive of your argument ? to encourage obedience to God or to encourage disobedience ?

 

[holyrokker]

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.

commanded you as in what he just told them to DO

-again I ask .. what is the motive of your argument ? to encourage obedience to God or to encourage disobedience ?

I think you're missing my point. Jesus never commanded us to be baptized.

The passage in Matthew 28 is not a command to be baptized. So whether a person is baptized or not is not a matter of either obedience or disobedience. It's a matter of personal conviction.

 

[Michaelismyname]

-again I ask .. what is the motive of your argument ? to encourage obedience to God or to encourage disobedience ?

 

[ebedmelech]

But this is not a command to be baptized, and shouldn't be taken as such.

The "command" is to make disciples. Two aspects of this activity are baptizing the disciples and teaching them to observe His commands.

No Holyrokker...you're not reading it correctly then. it's an imperative statement. Everyone who believes on Christ becomes a disciple.

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “ All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Jesus establishes His authority

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

The disciples are told to do these things:

1.Go make disciples of all the nations

2. Baptize them...who?...ALL the nations in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. Teaching them to observe all Jesus commanded

How do you not see that? If it was not a command why are they doing it throughout the book of Acts???

Peter preaches his first sermon and what happens??? Acts 2:41 happens:

So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

They did as Jesus told them!!

 

[holyrokker]

-again I ask .. what is the motive of your argument ? to encourage obedience to God or to encourage disobedience ?

Please read my words carefully. Baptism is not about obedience or disobedience. Jesus did not command us to be baptized.
He commissioned the church to go and make disciples. Two components of disciple-making are baptizing those disciples and teaching those disciples. But there is no command to be baptized.

Matthew 28:20 is not a command. Jesus is sending the apostles (and by extension, the Church) to make disciples.

"teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you"

How can this be twisted into placing an obligation on people to be baptized? Where did Jesus make such a command?