Have u seen these guys on these forums??

[LittleLambofJesus]

So you dont deny the JEWISH race rules the JEWUSH Country of Israel who's official religion is JEWISH right?

And you of course do not deny Jesus was JEWISH , right??

What makes their religion of Talmudic Judaism any different than Koranic Islam except for being perhaps a little more passive maybe?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Reve 5:6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones/zwwn <2226> and in midst of the elders a lamb-kin standing, as having been slaughtered/esfagmenon <4969> (5772),

Reve 13:3 And one, out of the heads of itas having been slaughtered/esfagmenhn <4969> (5772) into death, and the blow/stripe of the death of it was healed, and marvels whole the land behind of the wild beast.

 

[Micah68]

Even In Israel there are Israelis working/striving for peace and justice. Israelis recognizing the injustice suffered by the indigenous people of God's holy Land. Yet there are those who will do all they can to undermine the peace, that is so desperately needed by both Israelis and Palestinians, all for selfish and dehumanizing reasons some call religion and supposed pre-written history.

Gush Shalom: The starving of the Gaza inhabitants is a crime and a folly

Mistreating a million and a half people will make them the most bitter of enemies.

Instead of a cruel policy of naked force, we should negotiate with all Palestinians – including Hamas


"With our own hands we are uniting a million and half people against us, in bitterness and hatred" says Gush Shalom (Israeli Peace Bloc). "The inhabitants of the Gaza Strip are completely dependent on Israel for their most basic livelihood. This complete dependence was created, consciously and deliberately, by all governments of Israel since 1967. The state of Israel cannot now just shrug off its responsibility for the fate of the inhabitants of Gaza.
The people of the Gaza Strip have already been living for a long time in terrible squalor, on the very edge of starvation. Now we push them even much deeper into hell. The state of Israel is today roughly trampling International Law, in indiscriminate collective punishments of a whole civilian population. We, too, will eventually pay the price.

This policy of force and oppression is also emptying of content the negotiations supposedly taking place with Abu Mazen and the leadership he heads, presenting him and his followers as accomplices in the terrible suffering caused to their people. There can be no peace without talking to and negotiating with the entire Palestinian people, with all its parts including the Hamas leadership, which has explicitly expressed its willingness to discuss a cease-fire and a mutual end to attacks on both sides of the Gaza border. This is the alternative to the policy of trampling force whose main proponent is Defence Minister Barak, formally leader of the Labour Party - effectively leader of the Extreme Right in Israel".

GAZA : A CALL FOR URGENT ACTION​

​

The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD) deplores the unanimous decision by the Israeli cabinet to impose sanctions on supplies of electricity, fuel, and other basic goods and services to the civilian population of Gaza, and calls upon the international community to prevent this crime against humanity from being carried out. Indeed, the very legal framework invoked by Israel to carry out this illegal and immoral act – declaring Gaza a "hostile entity" within a "conflict short of war" – has absolutely no standing in international law. The collective punishment of an entire civilian population, by contrast, is explicitly prohibited.
We call on the Secretary General of the UN, Mr. Ban Ki-Moon, to urgently convene the Security Council in order to tell the Israeli government that this step is completely unacceptable and must be rescinded.
We call on the governments of the world, and in particular the American government and the European Parliament, to censure this decision, especially in light of recent attempts to revive the diplomatic process.
We call on the world's religious leaders to condemn this blatant violation of human rights and the most fundamental assault on human life and dignity, made especially poignant as it is being implemented during the holy month of Ramadan. As Israelis, most of whom are Jews, we call upon Jewish leaders to speak out unequivocally against this offense against Jewish values on the eve of Yom Kippur.
And we call upon the peoples of the world to let their officials and leaders know of their repudiation of this cruel, illegal and immoral act – an act that stands out in its cruelty even in an already oppressive Israeli Occupation. ICAHD condemns attacks on all civilians, be they Israeli or Palestinian. Violations of international law by governments affecting millions of people are, however, especially egregious and must be denounced.
Israel's decision to punish Gaza's civilian population, with all the human suffering that entails, constitutes State Terrorism against innocent people. Only when Israel is held accountable for its actions and international law upheld will a just peace be possible in the Middle East.
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/index_en.html​

Contact: Adam Keller, +972-3-5565804 or +972-506-709603, Uri Avnery 972-505-306440

 

[LLWHA]

Because the land was promised to Abrahams decenedents and if you notice out of the Good ness of Abrahams heart he paid for the burial site when the man miraculously was compelled to offer it free.
Abraham was wise and new the time was not yet for all the land.
He did not know all the land would not even come close to being in place until 1967

http://focusonjerusalem.com/maproom5.htmlN

The infamous Six Day War of 1967 found Israel encircled by overwhelmingly superior Arab forces. During the next six days, Israel would capture the ancient Holy City of Jerusalem, and acquire all of the West Bank. Israel stood at the doorway of ending her long exile from her precious Holy sites on the Temple Mount, but alas, that would be denied to them. Nevertheless, the amazing account of the miraculous six-day war is nothing short of miraculous.

Now the complete Land of Israel is not limited to the post-1967 Israeli borders, but comprises the historic Land of Israel of the Covenant (Genesis, 15) and the promised borders. It obviously includes the occupied territories, and especially Judea and Samaria, the very heart of the historic Israeli nation.

This appears to me to be propaganda.

Nine out of ten people that call themselves Jews and live in its-real-lie are not Hebrews never were in Egypt.

I believe these people that lie and call themselves Jews. Well they are not Hebrews and are not of the House of Judah.

They are the Sons of Esau, The House of Edom.

God gave them land. They want the birthright their father sold for a bowl of food. They want the blessing that was given To Jacob.

Esau wanted to Murder (Jacob) Israel. Now his sons mass-murder, steal, lie, slave trade using a name that they have stolen.

They stole our Holy name then they do evil non-stop using our Holy name. No wonder God Hates these people!!

1:1 The burden of the Word of the "I AM" to Israel by Malachi.
1:2 I have loved you, saith the "I AM". Yet ye say, Wherein hast Thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the "I AM": yet I loved Jacob,
1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
1:4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the "I AM" Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the "I AM" hath indignation for ever.

Rev. 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but [are] (Idumeans, Edom, Esau) the synagogue of Satan.

3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are NOT, but do LIE (Idumeans); behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[Carey]

So instead of actually addressing the hard issues raised against your arguments, all we see is an attempt to demonize those who oppose your pro-Isarel/Zionist position with well reasoned, logical arguments and facts since they cannot be disputed?

I see . . . . .

.

Thta is what everyone on this board does when I post facts that they cannot dispute. They simply call it propoganda and the post some propoganda.

That is why I dont waste time reponding to their propoganda.

Here is some more factual stuff yo9u would call propganda I am sure.

[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT='Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Syria Had Chemical Weapons Accident, Appointed to UN Nuke Agency[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]New details of Syria's weapons programs have been reported, indicating that chemical weapons may have been destroyed in the Israeli strike as well.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]According to Jane's Defense Weekly, the Israeli air strike was ordered after an accident involving a joint Syrian-Iranian team that was attempting to mount a chemical warhead on a scud missile.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Jane's reports that an accident involving the same facility on July 23rd released sarin and VX nerve gas into the air and killing "dozens of Iranian engineers and 15 Syrian officers."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Syria's government-controlled media reported the incident as an explosion at an explosives storage facility near Aleppo "due to the heat."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]It has long been known that Syria has an advanced chemical weapons program, which it launched in 1973, just prior to the Yom Kippur War.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Syria Appointed to UN's Nuclear Watch Group[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Syria was appointed deputy chairman of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency's General Conference Monday.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Syria's state-run SANA news agency boasted that the nation had already succeeded in putting Israel's nuclear arsenal on the conference's agenda. The item is entitled: "Israeli nuclear capabilities and threat." Iran is not referred to by name on the agenda.[/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Micah68]

Thta is what everyone on this board does when I post facts that they cannot dispute. They simply call it propoganda and the post some propoganda.

That is why I dont waste time reponding to their propoganda.

Here is some more factual stuff yo9u would call propganda I am sure.
[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT]

More like ignorance to me.

The Nuclear Wave: Arab World Caught Between Israeli Hammer, Iranian Anvil
“Original Sin”
This unfolding nuclear drama provides another clear example of how decades-old U.S. policies in the Middle East are perceived as hypocritical and as fundamentally avoiding core political issues. Discussing the GCC’s nuclear plans, Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal articulated, “We want no bombs…Our policy is to have a region free of weapons of mass destruction…This is why we call on Israel to renounce [nuclear weapons].”
Since Israel was the first to establish a nuclear program for the purpose of producing weapons decades ago, yet Washington has never pushed it to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty—or even to acknowledge it has nuclear weapons—Saud al-Faisal lamented that the “original sin” was Israel’s.
If the perceptions of a double standard are not clear enough, Jordanian King Abdullah II explained in his Haaretz interview “I personally believe that any country that has a nuclear program should conform to international regulations and should have international regulatory bodies that check to make sure that any nuclear program moves in the right direction.” Since he was speaking to an Israeli paper, the audience was clear.
When asked if he meant that Israel should sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the Jordanian monarch replied, “What’s expected from us should be a standard across the board. We want to make sure this is used for energy. What we don’t want is an arms race to come out of this. As we become part of an international body and its international regulations are accepted by all of us, then we become a united front.”

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2007/0705040.html


Could Aging Dimona Reactor Become an Israeli Chernobyl?
Chronicle Could Aging Dimona Reactor Become an Israeli ... demise through negligence of its Dimona nuclear reactor. This possibility was ... of New Jersey. If Dimona was hit, it would
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/November_2006/0611052.html

 

[Carey]

More like ignorance to me.

The Nuclear Wave: Arab World Caught Between Israeli Hammer, Iranian Anvil
“Original Sin”
This unfolding nuclear drama provides another clear example of how decades-old U.S. policies in the Middle East are perceived as hypocritical and as fundamentally avoiding core political issues. Discussing the GCC’s nuclear plans, Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal articulated, “We want no bombs…Our policy is to have a region free of weapons of mass destruction…This is why we call on Israel to renounce [nuclear weapons].”
Since Israel was the first to establish a nuclear program for the purpose of producing weapons decades ago, yet Washington has never pushed it to sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty—or even to acknowledge it has nuclear weapons—Saud al-Faisal lamented that the “original sin” was Israel’s.
If the perceptions of a double standard are not clear enough, Jordanian King Abdullah II explained in his Haaretz interview “I personally believe that any country that has a nuclear program should conform to international regulations and should have international regulatory bodies that check to make sure that any nuclear program moves in the right direction.” Since he was speaking to an Israeli paper, the audience was clear.
When asked if he meant that Israel should sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the Jordanian monarch replied, “What’s expected from us should be a standard across the board. We want to make sure this is used for energy. What we don’t want is an arms race to come out of this. As we become part of an international body and its international regulations are accepted by all of us, then we become a united front.”

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2007/0705040.html


Could Aging Dimona Reactor Become an Israeli Chernobyl?
Chronicle Could Aging Dimona Reactor Become an Israeli ... demise through negligence of its Dimona nuclear reactor. This possibility was ... of New Jersey. If Dimona was hit, it would
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/November_2006/0611052.html

Israel is not hell bent on world domination Islam is.
Therefore seperate rules for Islamic countries will help the world last a little longer as it must before Christ returns.

 

[Micah68]

Israel is not hell bent on world domination Islam is.
Therefore seperate rules for Islamic countries will help the world last a little longer as it must before Christ returns.

Yep, Muslims have replaced the Russians as the boogy man of the day Curious Carey have you ever been to an Islamic country? Also, I am curious where Christ made and exception clause in the command to 'Love your neighbor as you self'? Tell me what your 'Cross' icon represents to you, I am assuming you are a 'Christian'?

 

[Carey]

Yep, Muslims have replaced the Russians as the boogy man of the day Curious Carey have you ever been to an Islamic country? Also, I am curious where Christ made and exception clause in the command to 'Love your neighbor as you self'? Tell me what your 'Cross' icon represents to you, I am assuming you are a 'Christian'?

Nope muslims, Buddhists and Aheists have allied with the Russians
The Russians did this on purpose because of the 2 thirds of the Russian Governemnt being ex KGB and still viewing the west as their enemy . So Gog is allies with Magog .
And the y have been doing miltary exercises with the kings of the east .

Wher is there a lack of love in admitting wars are necessary and knwoing the enemy??

Jesus said himself wars are necessary.
Matthew 24 : 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

August 6, 2007


‘Rival to Nato’ begins first military exercise



Tony Halpin in Moscow


Russian and Chinese troops are joining forces this week in the first military exercises by an international organisation that is regarded in some quarters as a potential rival to Nato.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2204006.ece

 

[Micah68]

Christian Reflections in a Time of War

"We need to support our brave troops at a time like this, so we shouldn’t criticize our government or our president. Besides, our president is doing what Scripture says he is supposed to do: he is “bearing the sword” to punish evil (Romans 13:1-4). If terrorism and insurgency aren’t evil, what is? If the degrading of the bodies of our troops and the recent beheading of an American citizen don’t deserve strong response, what does? It takes courage and strength to stand up to evil.
The fact is, we were attacked, brutally and viciously, on September 11. We needed to respond strongly and decisively, and that is what we have done. The enemies of freedom want to destroy our way of life and bring the world into chaos and tyranny; even if the rest of the world doesn’t appreciate our actions, what we are doing is courageous and good for everyone – even those who criticize us. By fighting terrorists and extremists, we are making the world safer for everybody.
Yes, some mistakes have been made, but our mistakes are few and minor compared to the atrocities committed by our enemies. Emphasizing our mistakes, including the isolated misdeeds of a few prison guards at Abu Ghraib, simply plays into the hand of our enemies; besides, we’re dealing honestly and openly with any problems that have occurred. America is a beacon of light and justice in our world.
It’s useless to complain that we are losing respect in the world. In the long run, people will respect our strength. Right now, other countries are jealous of us because they are poor by comparison, but it is not our fault they haven’t been blessed as we are, nor have they learned to benefit from free enterprise and Democracy as we have. We have to go it alone, because we are the leaders of the free world.
Our president is an evangelical Christian and he applies Biblical principles to his presidency. We should pray for him and defend him from critics – not criticize him. Remember President Clinton? Aren’t we grateful to have a godly man like President Bush in office at a time like this?"
These days I hear many of my good Christian friends say things very much like this, and many of our most respected leaders too. They’re good people, and I respect them, and I wish very much I could fully agree with them. They’re sincere and they’re trying to do what’s right, and if I even partially disagree, no one could blame them for thinking I’m crazy or deluded. I have little hope of persuading them to see things differently; some are quite set in their ways, and since nearly all of their friends hold similar opinions, the peer pressure against rethinking these matters is very strong.
Meanwhile, I awaken in the middle of the night (or more often, wake up early with anxious thoughts), thinking and praying about what’s happening to our world and our country and our Christian community during this time of war, wondering how I should respond.
I have lived nearly my whole life just outside of Washington, DC. International news is our local news here. In this political environment, I am well aware that the issues we face are complex, frighteningly complex: the easy answers and sound-bite-politics that we hear so often (both from the left and from the right) seldom do justice to the complexities of our world. Anything I say may be seen as equally simplistic by others. There’s always a “yes, but…” that can be added.
It would be easiest under these circumstances to remain silent and pretend to agree. It would also be relatively easy to express my deep feelings and concerns about current events in such a way that people who already agree with my conclusions would cheer and applaud. “Preaching to the choir” is a cake walk compared to communicating effectively with people whose deeply-held views may need to be challenged.
It is my goal to communicate with people whose opinions resonate with the first four paragraphs of this article. It is for them that I would like to offer my perspectives as a sincere and deeply concerned Christian in America.
First, I should say that I agree with some things expressed in those four italicized paragraphs. For example, we should not harshly criticize our country and our president. Part of this is simply a matter of “doing unto others.” As a pastor, I am routinely criticized by people who are certain they know more than I do. Meanwhile, I am often privy to dozens of facts and confidences of which they are unaware, and if they knew and saw what I do, they wouldn’t be so critical. I simply must endure their criticism (some of which is harsh and mean-spirited). Their criticism doesn’t make my job any easier, nor does it increase the likelihood that I’ll do better in the future – rather, the reverse. So harsh criticism is not good for anyone. That’s why I believe that harsh criticism of our leaders can be ultimately counterproductive, even if our leaders are deeply and dangerously wrong. So, I am against criticizing our president with harshness, insult, or arrogance. However, that cannot mean we aren’t allowed to raise questions, express concerns, or even voice strong disagreement – as long as we do so respectfully and with appropriate humility, understanding, and charity.
In addition, I agree that we must support our troops. Nearly all of them are fine human beings, truly the pride of our nation. They are our daughters and sons, sisters and brothers, mothers and fathers and neighbors and friends. Supporting them means caring for them, praying for them, and doing our best to make sure that they are not put in harm’s way without good cause. Sometimes, as many of us remember from Viet Nam, the best way to support our troops is to ask hard questions of our government and oppose decisions of our government if those decisions send our troops into harm’s way without good cause, or for less than a noble cause, or without proper planning. I understand: we are worried that if we bring uncomfortable questions and concerns to light, we may make it seem that some of our troops have suffered and died in vain, thus dishonoring their sacrifice. But if we don’t bring these questions and concerns to light, we risk the possibility that more will die in vain. So, our failure to ask needed questions and bring needed discussion into the light could lead to the deaths of more of our sons and daughters, friends and neighbors … and it could also result in the killing of innocent people in Iraq and elsewhere. (Continued) Well worth reading.

 

[gwynedd1]

Nope muslims, Buddhists and Aheists have allied with the Russians
The Russians did this on purpose because of the 2 thirds of the Russian Governemnt being ex KGB and still viewing the west as their enemy . So Gog is allies with Magog .
And the y have been doing miltary exercises with the kings of the east .

Wher is there a lack of love in admitting wars are necessary and knwoing the enemy??

Jesus said himself wars are necessary.
Matthew 24 : 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

August 6, 2007


‘Rival to Nato’ begins first military exercise



Tony Halpin in Moscow


Russian and Chinese troops are joining forces this week in the first military exercises by an international organisation that is regarded in some quarters as a potential rival to Nato.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2204006.ece

Hello Carey,

I find it ironic that the Magog reference in southern Russia was also Khazariah(where Ashkenazis have a good deal of relation) and it really is not Russia for the most part.

What the faith of Christian Zionsim is all about is not about the Gospel , the needy and the helpless, its about hoping for massive genocide so that the rapture can occur.

What is sad about it is the references used to justify it are weak at best. There was plenty of war during Roman times AFTER Christ because during that time was a century of peace. The cival war, the end of the Julio-Claudians, the Boudicca revolt in Britain, the revolts in Gaul in addition to Judea all happend between 55 -75 AD.

 

[Carey]

Hello Carey,

I find it ironic that the Magog reference in southern Russia was also Khazariah(where Ashkenazis have a good deal of relation) and it really is not Russia for the most part.

What the faith of Christian Zionsim is all about is not about the Gospel , the needy and the helpless, its about hoping for massive genocide so that the rapture can occur.

What is sad about it is the references used to justify it are weak at best. There was plenty of war during Roman times AFTER Christ because during that time was a century of peace. The cival war, the end of the Julio-Claudians, the Boudicca revolt in Britain, the revolts in Gaul in addition to Judea all happend between 55 -75 AD.

I am a Christian and I stand firmly with Israel against anyone who would say the Palestians or anyone other than now rules Israel have rule over it.

I dont care what so Called Christian Zinist believ or anyone else believes.

This post is about anti Israel (anti Christs) who try to deny Israel their right full dominion over their land. and in so doing deny the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Micah68]

I am a Christian and I stand firmly with Israel against anyone who would say the Palestians or anyone other than now rules Israel have rule over it.

I dont care what so Called Christian Zinist believ or anyone else believes.

This post is about anti Israel (anti Christs) who try to deny Israel their right full dominion over their land. and in so doing deny the Holy Scriptures.

THE JERUSALEM DECLARATION ON CHRISTIAN ZIONISM


Local Heads of Churches In Jerusalem

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God." (Matthew 5:9)
Christian Zionism is a modern theological and political movement that embraces the most extreme ideological positions of Zionism, thereby becoming detrimental to a just peace within Palestine and Israel. The Christian Zionist programme provides a worldview where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism. In its extreme form, it places an emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather than living Christ's love and justice today.
We categorically reject Christian Zionist doctrines as false teaching that corrupts the biblical message of love, justice and reconciliation.
We further reject the contemporary alliance of Christian Zionist leaders and organizations with elements in the governments of Israel and the United States that are presently imposing their unilateral pre-emptive borders and domination over Palestine. This inevitably leads to unending cycles of violence that undermine the security of all peoples of the Middle East and the rest of the world.
We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war rather than the gospel of universal love, redemption and reconciliation taught by Jesus Christ. Rather than condemn the world to the doom of Armageddon we call upon everyone to liberate themselves from the ideologies of militarism and occupation. Instead, let them pursue the healing of the nations!
We call upon Christians in Churches on every continent to pray for the Palestinian and Israeli people, both of whom are suffering as victims of occupation and militarism. These discriminative actions are turning Palestine into impoverished ghettos surrounded by exclusive Israeli settlements. The establishment of the illegal settlements and the construction of the Separation Wall on confiscated Palestinian land undermines the viability of a Palestinian state as well as peace and security in the entire region.
We call upon all Churches that remain silent, to break their silence and speak for reconciliation with justice in the Holy Land.
Therefore, we commit ourselves to the following principles as an alternative way:

• We affirm that all people are created in the image of God. In turn they are called to honor the dignity of every human being and to respect their inalienable rights.
• We affirm that Israelis and Palestinians are capable of living together within peace, justice and security.
• We affirm that Palestinians are one people, both Muslim and Christian. We reject all attempts to subvert and fragment their unity.
• We call upon all people to reject the narrow world view of Christian Zionism and other ideologies that privilege one people at the expense of others.
• We are committed to non-violent resistance as the most effective means to end the illegal occupation in order to attain a just and lasting peace.
• With urgency we warn that Christian Zionism and its alliances are justifying colonization, apartheid and empire-building.

God demands that justice be done. No enduring peace, security or reconciliation is possible without the foundation of justice. The demands of justice will not disappear. The struggle for justice must be pursued diligently and persistently but non-violently.
"What does the Lord require of you, to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8)
This is where we take our stand. We stand for justice. We can do no other. Justice alone guarantees a peace that will lead to reconciliation with a life of security and prosperity for all the peoples of our Land. By standing on the side of justice, we open ourselves to the work of peace - and working for peace makes us children of God.
"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation." (2 Cor 5:19)
His Beattitude Patriarch Michel Sabbah
Latin Patriarchate, Jerusalem
Archbishop Swerios Malki Mourad,
Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate, Jerusalem
Bishop Riah Abu El-Assal,
Episcopal Church of Jerusalem and the Middle East
Bishop Munib Younan,
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land

 

[Carey]

THE JERUSALEM DECLARATION ON CHRISTIAN ZIONISM


Local Heads of Churches In Jerusalem

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God." (Matthew 5:9)
Christian Zionism is a modern theological and political movement that embraces the most extreme ideological positions of Zionism, thereby becoming detrimental to a just peace within Palestine and Israel. The Christian Zionist programme provides a worldview where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism. In its extreme form, it places an emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather than living Christ's love and justice today.
We categorically reject Christian Zionist doctrines as false teaching that corrupts the biblical message of love, justice and reconciliation.
We further reject the contemporary alliance of Christian Zionist leaders and organizations with elements in the governments of Israel and the United States that are presently imposing their unilateral pre-emptive borders and domination over Palestine. This inevitably leads to unending cycles of violence that undermine the security of all peoples of the Middle East and the rest of the world.
We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war rather than the gospel of universal love, redemption and reconciliation taught by Jesus Christ. Rather than condemn the world to the doom of Armageddon we call upon everyone to liberate themselves from the ideologies of militarism and occupation. Instead, let them pursue the healing of the nations!
We call upon Christians in Churches on every continent to pray for the Palestinian and Israeli people, both of whom are suffering as victims of occupation and militarism. These discriminative actions are turning Palestine into impoverished ghettos surrounded by exclusive Israeli settlements. The establishment of the illegal settlements and the construction of the Separation Wall on confiscated Palestinian land undermines the viability of a Palestinian state as well as peace and security in the entire region.
We call upon all Churches that remain silent, to break their silence and speak for reconciliation with justice in the Holy Land.
Therefore, we commit ourselves to the following principles as an alternative way:

• We affirm that all people are created in the image of God. In turn they are called to honor the dignity of every human being and to respect their inalienable rights.
• We affirm that Israelis and Palestinians are capable of living together within peace, justice and security.
• We affirm that Palestinians are one people, both Muslim and Christian. We reject all attempts to subvert and fragment their unity.
• We call upon all people to reject the narrow world view of Christian Zionism and other ideologies that privilege one people at the expense of others.
• We are committed to non-violent resistance as the most effective means to end the illegal occupation in order to attain a just and lasting peace.
• With urgency we warn that Christian Zionism and its alliances are justifying colonization, apartheid and empire-building.

God demands that justice be done. No enduring peace, security or reconciliation is possible without the foundation of justice. The demands of justice will not disappear. The struggle for justice must be pursued diligently and persistently but non-violently.
"What does the Lord require of you, to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8)
This is where we take our stand. We stand for justice. We can do no other. Justice alone guarantees a peace that will lead to reconciliation with a life of security and prosperity for all the peoples of our Land. By standing on the side of justice, we open ourselves to the work of peace - and working for peace makes us children of God.
"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation." (2 Cor 5:19)
His Beattitude Patriarch Michel Sabbah
Latin Patriarchate, Jerusalem
Archbishop Swerios Malki Mourad,
Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate, Jerusalem
Bishop Riah Abu El-Assal,
Episcopal Church of Jerusalem and the Middle East
Bishop Munib Younan,
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land

These local heads are not using their heads .

Israel has to stay hardline or Israel will no longer be.

War is necessary. Matthew 24 : 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Israel is trying to find a way to satisfy its eneomies enough to get peace. But israel cannot back giving up Rule over the land of Cannan or they will be trying to make God a liar.

Yes if Israel has to use war to bring peace and then be put down for it then .....
Matthew 5 : 9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[PastorMikeJ]

Ha... yes... nearly everyone in this forum is an antisemite and anti-israel.

I think that this is a misstatement...

 

[Micah68]

I think that this is a misstatement...

Well I guess that depends on your definition of Semite.
What I would like to know is how is one seeking justice for all anti-semetic? Heaven forbid anyone critize Israel's policies against the Palestinians (also Semetic by the way).

Sem·ite (s

m

t

) [SIZE=-2]KEY [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]NOUN: [/SIZE]

1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible A descendant of Shem.

 

[Carey]

Sem·ite [/B](s

m

t

) [SIZE=-2]KEY [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]NOUN: [/SIZE]

1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible A descendant of Shem.

Good to know hmmm semite.

well anyway.
The modern state of Israel is under attack like never before since her 1948 founding from all sides throughout the world. Recently a secular Israeli said shortly after this summer's war (2006) with Hezbollah, "Every year they hate us more." No matter what Israel does, whether good or bad, it is viewed by most of the world as a provocation that justifies the world's hatred toward God's covenant nation.

If that's not bad enough, you would think that people of the Book (Christians), would be unified in their support of contemporary Israel since God is bringing His people back to their land. Yet, an increasing number of many within Christendom are speaking out, and like the unbelieving world, they too are blaming Israel for the problems in the Middle East.

The only legitimate basis for the Jews to claim a right to the land of Israel comes from the Bible. In fact, if it were not for the biblical history of Israel who would even know to associate the Jewish people with the land of Israel? It is precisely because God associates the Jewish people with the land that He gave them-located in today's Middle East-that we could even have a movement today known as Zionism. (Zionism is the name most frequently used of anyone, Jew or Gentile, who desires the Jews to own the Land of Israel.) Detractors of Zionism must attempt to say that God's promise of the land of Israel to the Jews has somehow been invalidated. My how many have tried down though the years to prove just that! But God's Word speaks louder than their shrill voices combined.

The case for Zionism rises or falls upon what the Bible teaches about Israel and the land of Israel. It is true that a just case for Israel can be presented upon many grounds, but ultimately it boils down to what does God think about this matter as communicated through His inerrant and authoritative Word-the Bible.

God's Promise of the Land

The Lord called Abram out of Ur of the Chaldeans and made an unconditional covenant, or contract, with him. This contract, known as the Abrahamic covenant, contained three major provisions: 1) a land to Abram and his descendants Israel, 2) a seed or physical descendants of Abraham, and 3) a worldwide blessing (Gen. 12:1-3).

In order to make His point clear, the Lord put Abram to sleep and made Himself the only signatory of the contract (Gen. 15:1-21). God told Abram, "To your descendants I have given this land" (verse 18). Even though the Lord was the only active signatory to the cutting of the covenant, as demonstrated in Genesis 15, nevertheless it is clear that Abraham obeyed the Lord during his lifetime: "Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws" (Gen. 26:5). "It is significant that the promise is related to Abraham's obedience, not to Isaac's, as the promise now becomes immutable and certain of fulfillment,"[7] observes John F. Walvoord. This covenant is repeated to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and their descendants a little over twenty times in the book of Genesis.[8] God's promise to the patriarchs is said to be an everlasting covenant (Gen. 17:7, 13, 19).

The promise of the land covenant is passed from Abraham to Isaac, instead of Ishmael. The Lord told Isaac: "Sojourn in this land and I will be with you and bless you, for to you and to your descendants I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore to your father Abraham. And I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed" (Gen. 26:3-4). Here we see a duplication of God's promise to Isaac's father (cf. Gen. 12:3; 15:18).

Number three in the patriarchal descent is Jacob, rather than Esau. Jacob's name is later changed to Israel, which becomes the primary name of the new nation. In Jacob's famous dream of a stairway from heaven to earth, the Lord said, "'I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants. Your descendants shall also be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in you and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed'" (Gen. 28:13-14). This statement also includes a repetition of the land promise made to Abraham and Isaac and would be passed on to Jacob's posterity, fulfilled in his twelve sons, the twelve tribes of Israel and their descendants. Walvoord notes:



Genesis closes with Jacob, his twelve sons and their descendants sojourning in the land of Egypt. Exodus is the story of their deliverance from Egypt and preparation for entrance into the land of Canaan. Even though Israel wondered in the wilderness for forty years because of unbelief, it was there that Moses received the Law that would become the new nation's constitution by which she would be governed in the land.

The book of Deuteronomy says at least twenty-five times that the land is a gift to the people of Israel from the Lord (Deut. 1:20, 25; 2:29; 3:20; 4:40; 5:16, etc.). Old Testament scholar, Walter Kaiser notes that, "sixty-nine times the writer of Deuteronomy repeated the pledge that Israel would one day 'possess' and 'inherit' the land promised to her."[10]

Deuteronomy 28-30 lays out the conditions for Israel to experience blessing within the land. We must remember that while the land was given unconditionally to the people of Israel, the Mosaic Law provides sub-conditions for the nation to enjoy God's blessings in the land. The tribulation period will be a time of divine discipline on the nation, bringing about Israel's repentance obedience. And then, during those grand and golden days of the millennial kingdom, she will experience full occupation of her land, reaping the many blessings promised in the Old Testament.

The Psalms, Israel's handbook of praise to the Lord, often lead the worshipper in thanksgiving to the Lord for His covenant promises and faithfulness. For example, Psalm 105 says, "He has remembered His covenant forever, the word which He commanded to a thousand generations, the covenant which He made with Abraham, and His oath to Isaac. Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant, saying, 'To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion of your inheritance'" (Psalm 105:8-11). Elsewhere in the Psalms, the Lord declares: "For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation. 'This is My resting place forever; Here I will dwell, for I have desired it'" (Psalm 123:13-14). God's choice of providing the land of Israel for the Jewish people has remained steadfast down through history.

Throughout the Old Testament the prophets convict Israel of her disobedience, but always with a view toward a future restoration, when ultimately Israel will dwell in peace and prosperity. Throughout the Old Testament the prophets provide promise after promise of this time of future restoration to the land (Isa. 11:1-9; 12:1-3; 27:12-13; 35:1-10; 43:1-8; 60:18-21; 66:20-22; Jer. 16:14-16; 30:10-18; 31:31-37; 32:37-40; Ezek. 11:17-21; 28:25-26; 34:11-16; 37:21-25; 39:25-29; Hosea 1:10-11; 3:4-5; Joel 3:17-21; Amos 9:11-15; Micah 4:4-7; Zeph. 3: 14-20; Zech. 8:4-8; 10:11-15). A specific example of a restoration passage can be found at the end of Amos: "'Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, and they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them, they will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, and make gardens and eat their fruit. I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them,' Says the Lord your God" (Amos 9:14-15).

It is important to note that Zechariah, following the return from the Babylonian captivity, speaks of a future restoration to the land, thus suggesting that Israel's past restorations did not ultimately fulfill the land promise given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Zechariah 9-14 lays out an end time plan of restoration of the nation to Jerusalem and the land of Israel. Kaiser notes: "Repeatedly, the prophets of the Old Testament had depicted an Israelite remnant returning to the land (e.g., Isa. 10:20-30) and becoming prominent among the nations (Mic. 4:1) in the end day. In fact, Zechariah 10:8-12 is still repeating this same promise in 518 b.c., well after the days when many in Israel had returned from their last and final exile, the Babylonian Exile." [11] Further, Israel has a future in their land since nowhere in the Bible has the Lord revoked any of His promises to His people Israel: "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom. 11:29).

Multiple End-Time Regatherings

To properly understand the end-time homecoming or regathering of the Jews to their promised land, we need to keep in mind that the Bible predicts that Israel will experience two worldwide, end-time regatherings to the Promised Land. The first regathering will be partial, gradual and in unbelief, while the second regathering will be full, instantaneous and when Israel enters into belief in Jesus as their personal and national Messiah.

Dozens of biblical passages predict this global event. It is a common mistake, however, to lump all of these passages into one fulfillment time frame, especially in relation to the current state of Israel. Modern Israel is prophetically significant and is fulfilling Bible prophecy. But when we read God's Word, we need to be careful to distinguish which verses are being fulfilled in our day and which await future fulfillment.

In short, there will be two end-time regatherings: one before the tribulation and one after the tribulation. The first worldwide regathering will be a return in unbelief, in preparation for the judgment of the tribulation. The second worldwide regathering will be a return in faith at the end of the tribulation, in preparation for the blessing of the millennium, or thousand-year reign of Christ. [12]

One important passage that deals with Israel's two regatherings is Isaiah 11:11-12:

Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the second time with His hand the remnant of His people, who will remain, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And He will lift up a standard for the nations, and will assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Italics added.)

The return in Isaiah 11 clearly refers to the final worldwide regathering of Israel in faith, at the climax of the tribulation, and in preparation for the millennial kingdom. Isaiah specifically says that this final regathering is the second one. That, of course, raises the obvious question: When did the first regathering occur?

Some maintain that the first return is the Babylonian return from the exile that began in about 536 b.c. But how could this return be described as worldwide, as set forth in Isaiah 11?[13]

Arnold Fruchtenbaum writes:

The entire context is Isaiah 11:11-12:6. In this context, he is speaking of the final worldwide regathering in faith in preparation for blessing. Isaiah number the final worldwide regathering in faith in preparation of the Messianic Kingdom as the second one. In other words, the last one is only the second one. If the last one is the second one, how many can there be before that? Only one. The first one could not have been the return from Babylon since that was not an international regathering from the four corners of the world, only a migration from one country (Babylonia) to another (Judea). The Bible does not allow for several worldwide regatherings in unbelief; it allows for one worldwide regatherings in unbelief; followed by the last one, the one in faith, which is the second one. This text only permits two worldwide regatherings from the four corners of the earth. Therefore, the present Jewish State is very relevant to Bible prophecy.[14]

http://www.ldolphin.org/landrights.html

 

[Micah68]

If that's not bad enough, you would think that people of the Book (Christians), would be unified in their support of contemporary Israel since God is bringing His people back to their land.

What are Christians?

 

[Carey]

What are Christians?

HUH??

 

[gwynedd1]

HUH??

Carey,

If you do not know then let me help. Christians are God's chosen people, the seed of Abraham and heirs to the promise of God.

 

[LLWHA]

Carey,

If you do not know then let me help. Christians are God's chosen people, the seed of Abraham and heirs to the promise of God.

True.

Nice post.