Have u seen these guys on these forums??

[Carey]

Neo-Nazis discovered in Israel
Detainees may lose citizenship

The exposure by Israeli police of a Neo-Nazi cell group in Petah Tikvah over the weekend shocked many, but did not come as a complete surprise. The existence of skinheads in Israel has been suspected for a while, but the recent arrest of a cell group has confirmed those suspicions. Eight of the detained skinheads came from the former Soviet Union as children under the Law of Return, which extends citizenship to all who have one Jewish grandparent.

Interior Minister Meir Sheetrit led calls for the citizenship of the suspects to be revoked as well as for amending the Law of Return to prevent further similar incidents. “I intend to explore whether there is legal possibility to revoke their citizenship…. Whoever believes in the Nazi dogma has no place in the State of Israel,” Sheetrit said.

There is video footage, allegedly of the suspects, beating up helpless victims and using the Nazi salute. The gang is believed to be responsible for several recent violent incidents as well as desecrating a synagogue in the Petah Tikvah area.

This arrests have shocked leaders throughout Israel, as the state does not have strict laws regarding neo-Nazis. Currently, there is no law against possession of Nazi paraphernalia; there is only a law that prohibits Nazi propaganda over the Internet. Further court proceedings against the group will be held on Tuesday.

http://us.f500.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Sh...=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b&box=Inbox

 

[gwynedd1]

Many Jews are are "Anti-Semitic". Frank Collins, Zhirinovsky etc.
There is nothing new here. They are probably patsies(true believers led or funded and observed until needed politically) used to perpetuate the need for Jewish seggregation and perhaps war with Iran. So long as they are enemies Capulets and Montagues will remain separate peoples.

Here is one example.
http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v119/__show_article/_a000119-000057.htm


On Assimilation:
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0...1/edition_id/18/format/html/displaystory.html

 

[Carey]

Ha... yes... nearly everyone in this forum is an antisemite and anti-israel.

It does seem that way does'nt it???

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hmm . . . .since

1. "semite" refers to a race and
2. "Israel" refers to a nation and its government, and
3. those who are "anti-Israel" here are those who are against the ideologies and policies of a government, a regime, and
4. since a government/regime is NOT a race,
5. it is higly illogical in the extreme to label one who is against the government/regime of Israel as "anti-semite"

In other words, it does not compute . . .

.

 

[Carey]

Hmm . . . .since

1. "semite" refers to a race and
2. "Israel" refers to a nation and its government, and
3. those who are "anti-Israel" here are those who are against the ideologies and policies of a government, a regime, and
4. since a government/regime is NOT a race,
5. it is higly illogical in the extreme to label one who is against the government/regime of Israel as "anti-semite"

In other words, it does not compute . . .

.

Do the Governing powers in Israel have a race in common??

 

[thereselittleflower]

You are missing the point Carey . . . to be aganst an ideology, to be against policies of a GOVERNMENT, regardless of the racial makeup of that GOVERNMENT is to be against IDEAS . . . not a race . . .

Race and ideas are not interchangable words . .They are very distinct and exclusive words . . .

One deals with something tangible, CONCRETE . . BIOLOGICAL. .

The other deals with somethng INTANGIBLE - ABSTRACT.

To attempt to equate them in any way is to do gross violence to language and grammar . . .

It would be highly illogical in the extreme to do so.

.

 

[Carey]

You are missing the point Carey . . . to be aganst an ideology, to be against policies of a GOVERNMENT, regardless of the racial makeup of that GOVERNMENT is to be against IDEAS . . . not a race . . .

Race and ideas are not interchangable words . .They are very distinct and exclusive words . . .

One deals with something tangible, CONCRETE . . BIOLOGICAL. .

The other deals with somethng INTANGIBLE - ABSTRACT.

To attempt to equate them in any way is to do gross violence to language and grammar . . .

It would be highly illogical in the extreme to do so.

.

So you dont deny the JEWISH race rules the JEWUSH Country of Israel who's official religion is JEWISH right?

And you of course do not deny Jesus was JEWISH , right??

 

[thereselittleflower]

So you dont deny the JEWISH race rules the JEWUSH Country of Israel who's official religion is JEWISH right?

And you of course do not deny Jesus was JEWISH , right??

You're still mixing up concepts and issues and treating non-equivalant concepts/issues as equivalant . . .they aren't Carey . .

Race does NOT equal ideologies/ideas. . .

Definition "Semite"

Semitic is an adjective referring to the peoples who have traditionally spoken Semitic languages or to things pertaining to them. Genetic analysis suggests that the Semitic peoples share a significant common ancestry, despite important differences and contributions from other groups. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semite​

Definition of Racial:

of or related to genetically distinguished groups of people; "racial groups"
of or characteristic of race or races or arising from differences among groups; "racial differences"; "racial discrimination"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn​

Notice, "genetically distinguished" this has nothing to do with ideologies or policies.

A "genetically distinguished" group would still be that same "genetically distinguished" group regardless of what its ideologies or policies were.

For instance, there are many, many Jews who are totally against the idologies and policies of the Zionist regime in Israel . . they are no less Jews because of this and they are not anti-semite for they are very much pro "Jew".

Being anti-zionist/anti-Government of Israel has nothing to do with a group that is supposedly "genetically distinguished" from all others.


However, the very unchristian demonization of the Palestinians and other Arabs, as peoples, we have seen on this forum is very much "anit-semitism" as they are semitic peoples . . . .


And as far as some supposed "Jewish race" ruling Israel, what "Jewish race"? Who in leadership in Israel can trace their ancestry back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? They come from converted European stock . . .. Those in power in Israel are not related by race, but by an ideology, zionism, which is racist itself, which I have already demonstrated previously in other threads and will do so again here if required.

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Since my comment above will undoubtably be challanged, I will simply proceed now with the evidences I have previously posted in other threads:

Let's start first with how racism is defined:

Definition:

based on racial intolerance; "racist remarks"
a person with a prejudiced belief that one race is superior to others
discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Racism has many different definitions. Historically, it has been defined as the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others, and/or that individuals should be treated differently according to their racial designation. Sometimes racism means beliefs, practices, and institutions that discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racist​

Now, let's look at how this has been a part of Zionist ideology for over 100 years. We start first with a quote from the promiment Jewish writer of the 19th century, Ahad Ha'Am, recounting his visit to Palestine:

"[The Jewish settlers] treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamelessly for no sufficient reason, and even take pride in doing so. The Jews were slaves in the land of their Exile, and suddenly they found themselves with unlimited freedom, wild freedom that only exists in a land like Turkey. This sudden change has produced in their hearts an inclination towards repressive tyranny, as always happens when slave rules." '

"We are used to thinking of the Arabs as primitive men of the desert, as a donkey-like nation that neither sees nor understands what is going around it. But this is a great error. The Arab, like all sons of Sham, has sharp and crafty mind . . . Should time come when life of our people in Palestine imposes to a smaller or greater extent on the natives, they will not easily step aside." (From "Truth from Palestine" quoted in One Palestine Complete, Tom Segev, p. 104)
​

Israel Zangwill. Anglo-Jewish writer, spokesman for Zionism and prominent organizer of Zionism in Britain in the 19th century. In 1919 he commented publically of the Palestinian Arabs:

"many are semi-nomad, they have given nothing to Palestine and are not entitled to the rules of democracy."

Quoted in Expulsion of the Palestinians: The Concept of "Transfer" in Zionist Political Thought, 1882-1948, Dr Nur Masalha
​

Dr Nur Masalha is a graduate of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. He has taught at both, as well as at the University of Bristol in England.

His work above is almost entirely based on declassified Israeli archival materials.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0887282350/thehomeofalle-20



Moshe Smilansky, Zionist leader, in 1914:

"We must not forget that we are dealing here with a semi-savage people, which has extremely primitive concepts. And this is his nature: If he senses in you power- he will submit and will hide his hatred for you. And if he senses weakness- he will dominate you .... Moreover ... owing to the many tourists and urban Christians, there developed among the Arabs base values which are not common other primitive people ... to lie, to cheat, to harbor grave [unfounded] suspicions and to tell tales.... and a hidden hatred for the Jews. These Semites- they are anti-Semites."

Righteous Victims, Benny Morris, pg 43​

Benny Morris is a famous Israeli historian and professor of history at Israel's Ben-Gurion University. His work above regarding the Palestinian/Zionist conflict is highly acclaimed.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0679421203/thehomeofalle-20


In 1939, David Hacohen, leader of the Mapai, Israeli Worker Party, David Ben Gurion's social democratic party, the main political party of Labor Zionism (from early 1930s Ben Gurion was the main political leader in the Yishuv; directed Haganah in Israel's 1947-49 War of Independence, becoming first Prime Minister of Israel) advocated that Jewish Zionist socialism would only be for the Jews, and not for Arabs:

"I remember being one of the first of our comrades [of the Ahdut Ha'avodah] to get to London after the first World War. ... There I became a socialist. ... [In Palestine] I had to fight my friends on the issue of Jewish socialism, to defend the fact that I would not accept Arabs in my trade union, the Histadrut; to defend preaching to the housewives that they not buy at [Palestinian] Arab stores, to defend the fact that we stood guard at the orchards to prevent [Palestinian] Arab workers from getting jobs there. .... To pour kerosene on the [Palestinian] Arab tomatoes; to attack Jewish housewives in the markets and smash the Arab eggs they had bought; to praise to the skies the Keneen Kayemet [Jewish National Fund] that sent Hankin to Beirut to buy land from absentee effendi [landlords] and to throw the fellahin [peasants] off the land-- to buy dozens of dunums-- from an Arab is permitted, but to sell, God forbid, one Jewish dunam to an Arab is prohibited."

(a dunum is .23 acre)

Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 25

also the quoted portion before the elipses and the end appeared in Ha'aretz Nov 15, 1969 as quoted in The Tech Tuesday November 26, 1975 page 5 from MIT.

​

With other examples of racism given, the article in The Tech ends with this question:

If this is not racism, what are we to call racism?​

http://www-tech.mit.edu/archives/VOL_095/TECH_V095_S0472_P005.pdf


The Transfer Policy of Political/Labor Zionism is directed extremely negatively at the Arab race in Palestine, while extremely positively at the Jews, and so is racist at heart; a policy of dipossession of one race in favor of another, denying the right of possesson of the land upon which the Arab Palestinians have lived for centuries, in favor of another race, the Jews. We see this in the earliest Zionist writings:

Theodore Herzl, father of modern Zionism and the state of Israel, in 1895 wrote:

We shall have to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.​

Yosef Weitz, prime mover of the 1st and 2nd Transfer Committees and director of the Jewish National Fund's Land Settlement Department was the strong position to effect such Zionist policies.

According to Benny Morris in Expulsion Of The Palestinains, pg 182:

"Through 1948 he had ready access to cabinet ministers .... and often, he [referring to Weitz] met with Ben-Gurion ... Weitz's connections also encompassed the Yishuv's military brass, especially on the level of district, area and battalion commanders, [in short] Weitz was well-placed to shape and influence decision-making regarding the Arab population on the national level and to oversee the implementation of policy on the local level."​

Many, many quotes could be provided from his works, but we are limited in space, so will focus on only a few here.

Weitz called for denial of Arab rights to continue to live in their land:

"it must be clear that there is no room in the country for both [Arab and Jewish] peoples . . . If the [Palestinian] Arabs leave it, the country will become wide and spacious for us . . . The only solution [after the end of WW II] is a Land of Israel, at least a western land of Israel [i.e. Palestine since Transjordan is the eastern portion], without [Palestinian] Arabs. There is no room here for compromises . . . There is no way but to transfer the [Palestinian] Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer all of them, save perhaps for [the Palestinian Arabs of] Bethlehem, Nazareth, and the old Jerusalem. Not one village must be left, not one [Bedouin] tribe. The transfer must be directed at Iraq, Syria, and even Transjordan [eastern portion of Eretz Yisrael]. For this goal funds will be found . . . An only after this transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers and the Jewish problem will cease to exist. There is no other solution."

The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem , Benny Morris pg 27
Expulsion Of The Palestinians pgs 131-132


"....once again the answer from inside me is heard: only [Palestinian Arab] population transfer and evacuating this country so it would become exclusively for us [Jews] is the solution. This idea does not leave me in these days and I find comfort in it in the face of enormous difficulties in the way of land-buying and settlement."

"I am increasingly consumed by despair. The Zionist idea is the answer to the Jewish question in the Land of Israel; only in the land of Israel, but not that the [Palestinian] Arabs should remain a majority. The complete evacuation of the country from its other inhabitants and handing it over to the Jewish people is the answer."

Expulsion Of The Palestinians pg 132


"Through out the journey my reflections were focused on that plan, about which I have been thinking for year; the plan . . . . of evacuating the country for us [Jews]. I know that difficulties . . . but only through population transfer will redemption come. . . . There is no room for us with our neighbours. . . . development is a very slow process . . . . They [the Palestinian Arabs] are too many and too much rooted [in the country] . . . . the only way is to cut and eradicate them from the roots. I feel that this is the truth. . . . I am beginning to understand the essence of the MIRACLE which should happen with the arrival of the Messiah; MIRACLE does not happen in evolution, but all of a sudden, in one moment. . . . I can see the enormous difficulties but this should not deflect us from our aim; on the contrary, we must double our efforts to overcome the difficulties and find a listening ear, first in America, then in Britain and then in the neighboring countries. There the money will make it. People and money will be transferred there. We will set up an apparatus from the Yishuv manned by distinguished experts and these will supervise the [Palestinian] Arab transfer and resettlement and a second apparatus will receive the [Jewish] redeemers and plant them in the land. . . . I pondered these measures all the way from Tel Aviv and also while visiting near Ramat Hasharon and K'afr Azar. This is the aim, the redemption, and the dream."

Expulsion Of The Palestinians, pg 134


"The land of Israel is not small at all, if only the Arabs will be removed, and if its frontiers would be enlarged a little; to the north all the way to Litani [River in Lebanon], and to the east including the Golan Heights . . . . while the [Palestinian] Arabs be transferred to northern Syria and Iraq. . . . From now on we must work out a secret plan based on the removal of the [Palestinian] Arabs from here . . . [and] . . . to include it into American political circles. . . . today we have no other alternative. . . . We will not live here with Arabs."

Expulsion Of The Palestinians, pg 134-135

​

What we see through these samplings of quotes from major players in the Zionist movement is a clear continuation of the same ideology and policy . . the granting or depriving of rights and priviledges SOLEY on the basis of race.

We continue in the next post.

 

[thereselittleflower]

In 1976, Isarel Koenig, in the Koenig Memorandum recommended

"Adopting a strong policy against the Arabs by imposing stiff taxes and fines that would deprive them of the financial and economic means to improve their standard of living or social status…and to take any action as would reduce their number"

Israel Koenig, The Koenig Memorandum in Sami Hadawi's Bitter Harvest, p.157​

From the records of the
UN SECURITY COUNCIL
OFFICIAL RECORDS
THIRTY-FIRST YEAR
1 November 1976

regarding the Koenig Memorandum

70. Many of the recommendations of Mr. Koenig are already standard Israeli policy, as regards either the Arabs in Israel or the inhabitants of the occupied territories. Nevertheless, it is worth while here to elaborate on some of the points contained in this secret memorandum, and I shall quote verbatim from its text. Mr. Koenig wrote to Prime Minister Rabin, among other things, that:

"Fifthly, the following suggestions are put forward:

—To expand and deepen Jewish settlements in areas where the contiguity of the Arab population is prominent and where they number considerably more than the Jewish population; to examine the possibility of diluting existing Arab population concentrations; to enforce the State law so as to limit 'breaking of new ground' by Arab settlements in various areas of the country;

—To introduce a policy of reward and punishment for leaders and settlers who express hostility in any way towards the State or towards Zionism;

—To bend every possible effort to bringing all Zionist parties towards a national consensus regarding the issue of Israel's Arabs in order to disentangle them from their internal political squabbles;

—To make appropriate arrangements with the management of a concern bearing the 'approved investment' label in crucial areas as noted above, the number of Arab employees not to exceed 20 per cent;

—To have the tax authorities adopt immediate steps to intensify tax collection, performing it with firmness and without deviations;

—To reach a settlement with central marketing factors of various consumer goods that would neutralize and hamper Arab agents, particularly in the northern areas, in order to avoid dependence of the Jewish population on those agents, especially in times of emergency;

—To have the Government find a way to neutralize the payment of 'big family' grants to the Arab population, either by linking them to the economic situation or by taking this responsibility from the national insurance system and transferring it to the Jewish agency or to the Zionist organization so that the grant is paid to Jews only;

—To endeavour to have central institutions pay more attention to giving preferential treatment to Jewish groups or individuals as compared to Arabs;

—To have the reception criteria for Arab university students be the same as for Jewish students, and to have this apply also to the granting of scholarships. A meticulous implementation of these rules will produce a natural selection and will considerably reduce the number of Arab students;

—To make trips abroad for studies easier, while making return and employment more difficult; this policy is apt to encourage their emigration;

—To increase the presence of various police and security forces in the Arab streets to deter extremist circles and those who are sitting on the fence and are likely to be drawn into uprisings and demonstrations."​

This is the outline of the memorandum presented by Mr. Koenig to the Prime Minister of Israel. He followed this memorandum up with another one in which he stressed the importance of his suggestions and recommended some others.

71. . . . . The Israeli newspaper, Yediot Aharonoth, of 7 September, said that senior elements close to the Prime Minister attach importance to the Koenig report. The Israeli radio said on 8 September in Hebrew that the Interior Minister, Mr. Joseph Burg, reacted to the document by saying that he had complete faith in Mr. Koenig. The most honest comment was produced by Davar, which said in its issue of 9 September:

"The Koenig report can be summarized in one sentence. It predicts what will happen should we annex the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Take out of the document the word 'Galilee', replace it with 'Gaza', 'Judea' or 'Samaria' and everything will become clear."​

The paper, Davar, went on to say that:

"The Education Ministry should reprint the memorandum and make it compulsory reading in all schools. The Foreign Minister must furnish Ambassador Herzog with a copy as soon as possible so that he can present it at the United Nations."​

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/36...f67d4d633a025cf685256fd3006449ca!OpenDocument
​

Davar was owned and aligned with the Histadrut labor union. It was published in the Palestine Mandate and Israel as a Hebrew language daily newspaper from 1925 until 1994.

The Davar was:

Founded in 1925 by Berl Katznelson, this was considered the workers of Israels newspaper and it was hugely influential at its time. The articles published in it were singularily socialistic in nature ........ ‘Beit Davar’ [the ‘Davar’ building] was a melting pot for dozens of reporters and political activists, all enthused, driven Zionists that made the place a magnet for anyone with a political agenda.​

It's 2nd editor, Zalman Shazar, later became the President of the State of Israel.

http://www.sheinkinstreet.co.il/action?mod=template&page=eng_magazine_item.xhtml&cid=69

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davar


Zionism, as the foundational ideology of the State of Israel, shapes Israel's governmental and military policies and laws; thus these policies and laws reveal Zionism's racist nature.

Laws of immigration, citizenship, and land ownership, are very racially based. For instance, one has an automatic right of immigration, citizenship and land ownership simply because of biologics, simply because that person's mother is a Jew. All other people, whose mothers are not Jews, are denied this same level of automatic right.

This is inherently racist. It is lifting up biological Jews preferentially for certain automatic rights and priveledges, while denying other people who are not biologically Jews the same level of rights and priviledges. The laws and policies of Israel make it extremely difficult for non-Jews to immigrate, become citizens and own land in Israel . . The same laws and policies make it very easy for a biological Jew to immigrate, become a citizen and own land in Israel.

That biologics, in and of themselves, can grant or deny such an automatic right is, in fact, racist policy.

Labeling such ideology and its policies racist should be uncontroversial in itself. It is merely objective fact. This is brought out further in the following post(s).

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Israel Shahak, a holocaust survivor of Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, immigrated to the British Mandate of Palestine where he became a model citizen. He served in an elite regiment in the Israeli Army, after which he became an assistant to Ernest Bergmann, the head of Israel's Atomic Energy Commission. He was a popular professor of organic chemistry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and chairman of the Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights. His writings exposing and documenting the nature of Zionism and its polocies driving the laws and policies of th government of Israel, such as its racism, were based exclusively on mainstream Israeli sources.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4216853,00.html

Israel Shahak on the issue of the racism of Zionism:

Zionism is Racism

It is my considered opinion that the State of Israel is a racist state in the full meaning of this term: In this state people are discriminated against, in the most permanent and legal way and in the most important areas of life, only because of their origin. This racist discrimination began in Zionism and is carried out today mainly in cooperation with the institutions of the Zionistic movement. I will prove this opinion of mine by quoting facts, laws and regulations which have force in Israel (and which are known really to anybody) and are enforced by the government. I will therefore ignore the racism of the individuals in this article and also the declared or undeclared explanations by which this racism is “justified” sometimes.


The Racist Nature of Zionism and of the Zionistic State of Israel
by: Israel Shahak
December - December 1975
The Link - Volume 8, Issue 5

http://www.ameu.org/printer.asp?iid=91&aid=307
​

In the above document he covers the following catagories demonstrating the racist nature of Zionism and the laws and policies that result from this in Israel - I am only giving short excerpts:

The first issue:

Restrictive Covenants

In the State of Israel, one who is not a Jew is discriminated against, only because he is not a Jew, in these areas of life:

1) The right to live or to dwell or to open a business in the place of his choice. Most of the land in Israel belongs to or is administered by the Jewish National Fund—-NF—which is an institution of the Zionist organization, and operates an admitted racist policy: It forbids non-Jews to dwell on its lands or to open a business and sometimes even to work, only because they are not Jews!​

He give examples, one of which is:

...Any attempt of an Arab to buy or to rent a flat from a Jew is opposed openly and legally by all the branches of the government (the Ministry of Housing, municipality,etc.) and also by the illegal opposition of the Jewish inhabitants which is nevertheless supported by the Israeli police. I can only remind you that nobody opposes an operation of the sale or the rental of a flat in Nazareth, if the buyer or the lessee is a Jew; which means according to the racist definition of this word employed legally in Israel, a human being who can prove that his mother, his grandmother, his great-grandmother were Jewesses. If he can prove this, such an operation becomes all right all of a sudden and nobody opposes it, neither the government nor the inhabitants. There is an opposition only if the mother of the buyer is not a Jewess...
​

next:

“Security”

I want to continue with this subject in order to show that:

A) There is no connection between this and what is called among us by the name of “security”: This limitation is enforced in a racist way against all non-Jews, including those among them who served in the Israeli Army, or even distinguished themselves in it, or were wounded during their service; or if they are too old but whose sons or other relatives serve in the army.
​

He goes on here to given the example of how such a one, if they are not a Jew, has no right to dwell in Carmel, even though they distinguished themselves with such service and sacrifice for Israel, but a theif, robber or murderer after serving their time, CAN dwell in Carmel simply because they are born of a Jewish mother/grandmother.

He goes on to speak about the extreme racism fostered by Israeli policy seen in the Kibbutzim:

An Israeli citizen who is not a Jew cannot be accepted as a member in any kibbutz, even in cases where a daughter of a kibbutz falls in love with one of its hired non-Jewish workers.​

He then progresses to his next main issue, the Zionist concept of the "Redemption/Salvation of the Land" which means the transferring of the land from non-Jewish owners to Jewish ones:

Save the Land
shall now describe more briefly some of the other forms of discrimination:

2) The “Salvation of the Land”, that concept which is pushed into the brains of all the Jewish pupils in Israel from the kindergarten on. What is this? The meaning of this term is that according to the teaching of the Israeli Ministry of Education, a land which was “saved”—was transferred to a Jewish ownership. A land which has not yet been “saved” belongs as yet to human beings who were born of non-Jewish mothers, and one has to “save” it. Messengers of the JNF, who enjoy the most forceful support of the Israeli government and especially of its “security arms”, are employed continually in “saving” land both in Israel and in the conquered territories, and in changing it into an additional area of racism.
​

He gives the example of the Rafiah Approaches which expelled Arabs from that area, and asks these questions which he gives the official Israeli answer to, followed by his observations comparing this to the treatement of Jews by Tsarist Russia:

Do the people who lived in that area until a few years ago enjoy the right to dwell in the new racist town of Yamit? Has an Israeli Arab the right to settle in Yamit? The open and the official Israeli answer is: No! Only Jews enjoy the right to live in the new racist town of Yamit, and in the other settlements established near it. The reasons for that step do not interest me. Maybe the Tsars of Russia had a good reason when they prohibited Jews from dwelling outside the area of the “Pale” only because they were Jews. But this was racism! Similarly what is done now in Rafiah Approaches and similar acts of “salvation of land” in any other area, in Israel or in the conquered territories constitute a similar act of racism.

.....Zionism wants to “save” as much land as it can without any limit at all, in all areas of the “Land of Israel”, and it turns the land that it “saves” into one big apartheid area, in which human beings who were born from non-Jewish mothers have no right to live.
​

Next is his 3rd issue the right to work:

“Jewish” Labor

3) The right to work.

I will begin here from two quotations. Under the title of “The Israeli settlement authorities are taking action against the leasing of lands to Arabs,” Ma’ariv (3.7.75) tells the following racist story: “The Ministry of Agriculture and the Settlement Department of the Jewish Agency have recently launched a vehement campaign to eradicate the plague of land-leasing and orchard-leasing to Bedouins and Arab farmers in the Western Galilee. The Director of the Galilee area for the Jewish Agency, Mr. Aharon Nahmani, said that his office sent a circular notice to all settlements, in which they are warned that the leasing of national lands for cultivation by Arab sharecroppers, as well as the renting of the orchards for picking and marketing by Arabs contradicts the law and the regulations of the settlement authorities and the settlement movements. The management of the Galilee area enjoins the settlements to abstain from this practice, and stresses that last year already, the department pressed legal charges against settlements which did not abstain.”

Pay attention please: Because I am a Jew, I am allowed to lease orchards for picking or marketing, but an Arab, only because he is an Arab, is forbidden this! The Ministry of Agriculture of the State of Israel together with the (Zionist) Settlement Authorities will persecute and prosecute the Jewish settlements for doing actions which are completely legal when done between Jews and Jews and become a grave offence when done between Jews and Arabs!
​

Shahak goes on to discuss this further describing how in the first offense the settlers were obliged to give large "donations" in place of fines to an unknown fund, with documented threats that

“if a settlement is caught once again leasing lands, all form of state support will be interrupted. That settlement will not receive water-allotments will not obtain credit, and will not enjoy development loans.” (Ibid.)​

He goes on to document the Israeli Ministry of Agriculture's strong support of such racist ideology by quoting A. Uzan, the Minister of Agriculture:

“the domination of Jewish agriculture by Arab workers is a cancer in our body.”​

a quote from from Ha'aretz, 13 December 1974 which can be found in quoted in

QUESTION OF PALESTINE:
LEGAL ASPECTS
(Document 1)

A compilation of papers presented
at the United Nations seminars on
the question of Palestine in 1980-1986​

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/38...ed4c9480931667c78525611c00567ce0!OpenDocument​

Shahak then asks:

Is there a worse racism than this? Do you imagine a French minister comparing the Jewish textile merchants in France to “a cancer” and “dealing” with them by similar ways?
​

He then goes on to his 4th issue, racial discrimination in housing policies and laws bringing out the racist nature of Israeli law and polilcies, demonstrating that Israel has

no human policy of housing as it exists in varying manners both in the USSR or the USA and Britain.​

, just Jewish and non-Jewish policies.

He begins by comparing and contrasting such policies through the Ministry of Housing (which is for Jews) and the Department for Housing of Minorities (which is for non-Jews):

“Jewish” Housing

4) The right to an equality, the right of a citizen to enjoy a policy of his government, which deals with each citizen according to fixed non-racist criteria.

....Here in Jerusalem, for example, at the same time when the Ministry of Housing builds flats for Jews only inside Jerusalem, the “department for the housing of minorities” does the reverse: it “thins out” (what a word to use officially about human beings!) Moslems and transfers them out of Jerusalem.

....The State of Israel does not even pretend to care for housing for a human being because he is a human being, for a poor family or one that has many children, because decent housing is a human need. No! The State of Israel because of its Zionist aims, such as the “Judaization of the Galilee” is carrying out two contradictory sets of policies at the same time: One of maximum care for Jews and the other of discrimination and oppression of the “non-Jews”.
​

He goes on to explain the same issue exists in the area of health, then states:

The housing and the health in Israel are not of course the only examples. In almost every area of life in the State of Israel there exists a similar racist separation between “Jews” and “non-Jews”, a separation that necessarily causes discrimination.​

He then goes onto his conclusions:

A) I do not wish to debate any justifications for that racist policy. The most important fact is that it exists. Therefore the first step consists in admitting the truth: The State of Israel is a racist state, and its racism is a necessary consequence of the racism of the Zionist movement. Facts are facts.​

He goes onto explain that the State of Israel is not the only racist state. Then states:

The primary duty of all citizens of Israel, and also of all those Jews in the Diaspora who define themselves as the “supporters of Israel”, is to struggle against the racism and the discrimination which Zionism has established in the State of Israel, and which is directed against all the non-Jews who live in it. Such a struggle, which necessarily begins with the explanation of the racist character of Zionism and the State of Israel and the condemnation of their racism is neither anti-Jewish nor anti-Semitic, just as in the similar condemnation of the racism of the Tsarist-Russsa, there was no hate of Russians. Only a state which will abolish inside itself all the forms of racism, beginning with those that it enforces itself, can, afterwards, operate a policy which will bring all of us to a stable peace. Such peace can only be one in which people will not be discriminated against for reason of their origin, neither in their right to dwell nor in their right to work nor in any other area of their lives, but whatever government that will exist, will treat everyone in a manner in which human beings deserve to be treated.​

http://www.ameu.org/printer.asp?iid=91&aid=307

http://www.ameu.org/page.asp?iid=91&aid=307&pg=1

In 1974 Israel Shahak testified more fully on this subject before the Subcommittee on International Organizations and Movements. of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs. His testimony nay be found on pg 33-46 of the April 4, 1974 House Committee on Foreign Affairs report headed “Problems of Protesting Civilians Under International Law in the Middle East Conflict."

 

[thereselittleflower]

Rabbi Elmer Berger's discusses the 3 fundamental laws of the State of Israel which reveal and enforce the racism inherent in the policies and goals of Zionism:

ZIONIST/ISRAEL’S "CENTRAL TASK”: There is, first of all, the commitment of high principle in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israe; . . .. That solemn document declares that the state “will be open for Jewish immigration and for the Ingathering of Exiles.” (Emphasis added.)

This declaration of high purpose was implemented in three specific legislative acts of the Knesset.​

He proceeds to deal with these three legislative acts:

The Law of Return

The Law of Nationality

The World Zionist Organization/Jewish Agency Status Law - ie "The Status Law" enacted in 1952 by the Knesset for the central task of the State of Isarel: The Ingathering of the Exiles

As Rabbi Berger explains:

The Law of Return:

Israel’s basic immigration law. Every Jew, regardless of present citizenship, has the right to immigrate to Israel. The state is prohibited, except in individual and exceptional circumstances, from preventing Jewish immigration.......​

The Law of Nationality

grants citizenship automatically (unless it is rejected) to any Jew immigrating under the “Law of Return.” Neither the right to immigrate nor the automatic acquisition of citizenship is the prerogative of any but Jews......​

The Status Law

grants the Zionist organization a special status in Israel for “immigration,” “absorption,” and “settlement” projects.....​

Paragraph 5, consistent with the Declaration of Establishment, states

“the mission of gathering in the exiles is the central task of the State of Israel and the Zionist Movement in our days and requires constant efforts by the Jewish people in the Diaspora...”​

“Exiles” and “Diaspora” are Zionist terms describing Jews who live outside the State of Israel. In 1954 this Knesset legislation was made operative when the Executive of the World Zionist Organization and the Israeli government signed a “Covenant” embodying the substance of the 1952 law. The Covenant provides for the establishment of a “Coordination Board.” This body, composed of members of the Zionist organization and the government, allocates what would be functions of a normal state between the various departments of the Zionist movement and the counterpart departments of the government. The division of responsibilities is consistent with the conception of Israel as a Zionist state, or as the highest courts of the state described it in the Judgment handed down in the trial of Adolph Eichmann, “the sovereign state of the Jewish people.”​

He goes on to break this down further linking the central task of the State of Israel defined by law, the recruiting of Jews for immigration, to its results, of how priviledging Jews governs Israeli policy. He lists out several areas this affects: the structuring of the economy, rights of political organization, provisions of public services (examples given: roads, utilities and housing), educational opportunities, public subsidies for activies (example given: agriculture), . .

“MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS”: ...Since “Ingathering the Exiles” —recruiting Jews for immigration—is defined by law as the “central task” of the state it is not surprising that privileging Jews governs most Israeli policy. ...... Old Zionist prohibitions against non-“Jewish people” Palestinians, long ante-dating the present configurations of the Arab/Israeli conflict, still obtain.​

Rabbi Berger goes on to give examples of how employment on Jewish National Fund lands is permitted to Jews ONLY, how theses lands belong only to the Jewish people in perpetuity, stating that the Jewish National fund is a major tool for the occupational policies of Israel.

He then states:

Israel is a state, therefore, ...[where] “Jews” are nevertheless “more equal than others.”​

He goes on to summarize the connection between the racism of Zionist principles and goals with these fundamental laws and goals of Israel

BEYOND SEMANTICS: All of this is public law. The application of these Zionist laws makes discrimination a matter of national politics and of demographic fact. This being so, it is an abandonment of democratic principle to accuse those who oppose these public policies of malevolent or “obscene” motivations. To Americans, the effort to do so is reminiscent of the effort to label opponents of the Vietnam war as “traitors.”
​

http://www.ameu.org/printer.asp?iid=91&aid=308

.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Now, continuing, we turn back to the Zionist policy of "redemption" of the land . . ie transferring ownership from non-Jewish owners - ie "unsaved" land, into the ownership of Jewish owners, making it "saved" land.

We go back to 1943 to the words of Yitzchak Greenbaum, Chairman of the Rescue Committee of the Jewish Agency and later a cabinet minister in Israel's first Government in 1948. In a meeting in Tel Aviv on the subject "The Diaspora and the Redemption." stressing the importance of the "redemption of the land" above all else, Greenbaum said:

"For the rescue of the Jews in the Daspora, we should consolidate our excess strength and the surplus of powers we have. When they come to us with two plans....the rescue of the masses of Jews in Europe or the redemption of the land.....I vote, without a second thought, for the redemption of the land. The more said about the slaughter of our people, the greater the minimization of our efforts to strengthen and promote the Hebraization of the land. If there would be the possiblity today of buying packages of food with the money of the "Keren Hayesod" (United Jewish Appeal) to send it through Lisbon, would we do such a thing? No! and once again No!"

"The Holocaust Victims Accuse" pg 26

Zionist Relations with Nazi Germany, Faris Yahya, pg 56
​

This infamous quote of Greenbaum:

"One cow in Palestine is more important than all the Jews in Poland"
Tel Aviv, February 18th, 1943.​

appears to be an adaptation of the words of Sholem Asch, (highly acclaimed Jewish author, Nobel Prize nominee, one of the 10 most important living Jews named by New York Times in 1936 along with Einstein and Freud http://www.tinhouse.com/mag/issue30/current_lostfound.htm ) in his epic historical novel "Three Cities"

"But I tell you that, if a single cow in Palestine has a calf, it's an important event for the whole Jewish nation. Every calf in Palestine is worth more for the preservation of the Jews than scores of Jews in the Dispersion." The speaker's cheeks burned redder than ever as he shot out these words violently.
"So in your opinion one calf in Palestine is worth more than any Jew in the Dispersion ? Now we have it ; that's the Zionist credo ! " shouted the teacher.

Three Cities, A Trilogy Sholem Asch, pg 355
Translated by Edwin Muir, Willa Muir
Contributor Edwin Muir, Willa Muir
Published 1943
G. P. Putnam's sons

http://books.google.com/books?id=Rs...s&q="scores+of+Jews+in+the+Dispersion"&pgis=1
​

A reveiw of this book by Eli Siegel in Scrbner's Magazine December 1933 said of this work:

This work is undoubtedly impressive and awing. It comes at you like a shapely giant. It is fiction on the Grand Tour. And nowhere is there better contemporary history

http://www.aestheticrealism.net/reviews/Scribners_Asch_1933.htm
​

Asch, along with avid Ben-Gurion and other zionists, was a contributor to the important American Zionist journal "Jewish Frontiers" edited by Hayim Greenberg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayim_Greenberg

Regardless of how one views the quote attributed to Greenbaum above, which I can find no official denouncment of, that this was how Zionism generally viewed the intrinsic worth of Jews is captured in this Jewish author's work.

That this view was not a simple aberrancy, we see this concept, as well as the fact that the "redempton of the land", is actually extended to all of "Eretz Israel" (Greater Israel) (not just Palestine) and thus would eventually impact all Arabs in these lands, not just Palestinians, through dispoessesion - transferrence of land ownership from the non-Jews to the Jews, thus "saving" the land - in these words of Nathan Schwalb, Chairman of the (Zionist) Jewish Agency's Rescue Committee in Jerusalem, to the Rescue Committee for Czech Jewry:

Since we have the opportunity of this courier, we are writing to the group that they must always remember that matter which is the most important, which is the main issue that must always be before our eyes. After all, the allies will be victorious. After the victory, they will once again divide up the world between the nations as they did at the end of first war. Then they opened the way for us for the first step and now, as the war ends, we must do everything so that Eretz Yisroel should become a Jewish state. Important steps have already been taken in this matter. As to the cry that comes from your country, we must be aware that all the nations of the Allies are spilling much blood and if we do not bring sacrifices, with what will we achieve the right to sit at the table when they make the distribution of nations and territories after the war? And so it would be foolish and impertinent on our side to ask the nations whose blood is being spilled to permit their money into enemy countries in order to protect our own blood. Because 'rak b'dam tihyu lanu haaretz' (only through blood will the land be ours). As to yourselves - members of the group - you will get out, and for this purpose we are providing you with funds by this courier.

Michael Dov-Ber Weissmandel, Min HaMaitzer, p. 92.

"The Holocaust Victims Accuse" pg 28

Apartheid Israel, Uri Davis, Zed Books, New York, 2003, pp. 14-15
​

Chaim Weizmann, prominent Zionist leader and principal in the arrangement of the Balfour Declaration, who later became the first president of Israel, made the Zionist policy regarding Europe's endagered Jews during WWII very explicit:

The hopes of Europe’s six million Jews are centered on emigration. I was asked: “Can you bring six million Jews to Palestine?” I replied, “No.” ... From the depths of the tragedy I want to save ... young people [for Palestine]. The old ones will pass. They will bear their fate or they will not. They are dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world ... Only the branch of the young shall survive. They have to accept it.

Zionist Relations with Nazi Germany, Faris Yahya, pg 55
​

There is much that could be said about this attitude of the Zionist leadership towards the plight of Europe's Jewery, willing to sacrifice them for the establishment oaf the State of Israel, which is simply a matter of cold, historical fact, codified even by this Israeli Courts Judgement on Jun 22, 1955, Protocol of Criminal Case 124/53 in District Court, Jerusalem regarding the situation of Hungarian Jews:

The sacrifice of the majority of the Jews, in order to rescue the prominents was the basic element in the agreement between Kastner and the Nazis. This agreement fixed the division of the nation into two unequal camps, a small fragment of prominents, whom the Nazis promised Kastner to save, on the one hand, and the great majority of Hungarian Jews whom the Nazis designated for death, on the other hand.

Zionist Relations with Nazi Germany, Faris Yahya, pg 58

(Faris Yahya, was a British historian, prominent journalist and researcher)​

EretZ Israel spoken of above is not simply the little bit of land granted by the UN, Eretz Israel is ALL the land originally promised Abraham and envisioned by Theodore Herzl (1904) the visionary father of modern Zionism and "spiritual" father of the State of Israel, and Rabbi Fischmann (1947) a principal mover in the establishment of the State of Israel, whose testimony before the UN included a declaration regarding Zionism's goal and intent regarding Eretz Israel.

In Theodore Herzl's "Complete Diaries", Vol. II. p. 711, diary entry for October 15, 1898 he said:

Discussed with Bodenheimer the demands we will make. Area: from the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates
​

Rabbi Fischmann, in his testimony to the UN Special Committee July 9th, 1947 includes:

I now call Rabbi Fishman.

(At that point, Rabbi Fishman took his place at the table, and his remarks which were made in Hebrew were interpreted by Mr. KAPLAN.)

Sir ABDUR RAHMAN (India) : Rabbi Fishman, I do not know the Bible, I do not pretend to know it, but I should like to get information from you, your point of view, and I hope you will enlighten me as to what you have to say in regard to a few matters which I will put to you.

Rabbi Fishman, what was "the Promised Land"?

RABBI FISHMAN: The Promised Land was quite a large one, from the river of Egypt, up to the Euphrates.

Sir ABDUR RAHMAN (India) : It included the whole of Syria?

RABBI FISHMAN: Yes, a part.

Sir ABDUR RAHMAN (India) : The whole of Transjordan and Iraq?

RABBI FISHMAN: No.

Sir ABDUR RAHMAN (India) : The whole of Syria, Lebanon, present Palestine and Transjordan?

RABBI FISHMAN: Yes, possibly part of Syria and Lebanon.


THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
SUPPLEMENT NO. 11
UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON PALESTINE

REPORT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
VOLUME III
ANNEX A:
ORAL EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT PUBLIC MEETING
Lake Success, New York

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a...1dfb3602525e0d3585256e8b007196db!OpenDocument
​

A map of Herzl's and Fishmann's Eretz Israel can be seen here in a document well worth reading:

http://www.theunjustmedia.com/the zionist_plan_for_the_middle_east.htm




In 1982, an essay was published in Hebrew in KIVUNIM (Directions), A Journal for Judaism and Zionism; Issue No,
14--Winter, 5742, February 1982, Editor: Yoram Beck. Editorial Committee: Eli Eyal, Yoram Beck, Amnon Hadari,
Yohanan Manor, Elieser Schweid. Published by the Department of Publicity/The World Zionist Organization,
Jerusalem. This essay was entitled "A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties". It was translated by Israel Shahak and entitled: "Zionist Plan for the Middle East"

One of many places it can be found:
http://theunjustmedia.com/the zionist_plan_for_the_middle_east.htm

It is a must read and sheds a great deal of light on what we see happening in the middle east today, and especially on the war in Iraq, the wars in Lebannon, Syria, and threats of extension of such wars to other neighboring countries. We hear today of calls for partitioning Iraq into 3 partitions, exactly what the Zionists called for 20 years ago detalied in the document above.




But that is not what I was anticipating I would be asked for here. I bring this up only in this context, that given this callous attitude of the Zionist leaders towards the pilight of European Jews, it is not at all difficult to see how they would have little regard for the rights of the Arab populations in the land they desired to possess.

 

[Carey]

You can complain about the government of Israel or any country that is fine.

As long as you don't say that the Jewish Race should not have and Govern the land of cannan. It does'nt say they jave to do it perfectly . There is no perfect Government on earth ..YET

If you do you are speaking satanic lies.


It is interesting that everyone is so hung-up on the debate regarding who has official rights to The Land known historically as "The Land of Canaan."

So, there are some Palestinians who claim descendancy from Esau. Some from the Philistines. Some from the Canaanites. Some from Ishmael. Who knows who they are for certain? The Palestinians appear to definitely be a mixed group of Arabic people, and some may indeed have these roots. However, none of these inherit the Covenant, regardless!
None of the Canaanites received an inheritance blessing from God by Divine Covenant. So, the Palestinians who claim to be descendants of either the Philistines or the Canaanites, are definitely excluding themselves from being pure descendants of Abraham, even if such descendancy could be proven, which now is pretty difficult.
The Divine Everlasting Covenant related to the Land of Canaan was promised only to the descendants of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob, not through Ishmael or Esau. Therefore, the Palestinians have no basis upon which to lay claim to any portion of the Land of Canaan.
Does this mean there is no inheritance for the Arab descendants of Abraham? Actually, the Arabs of the line of Esau were also given a blessing by Isaac, which requires much land with resources and wealth. Genesis 27:38- 41. "And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept. And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above; And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck. And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob."
This blessing for Esau's descendants is yet to be totally fulfilled. However, the Land of Canaan is not their inheritance. Esau is not to lay claim to Jacob's Covenant inheritance. Rather, Esau has his own! And, we must be honest. Not all Arabs are direct descendants of Esau! Some are of Lot, and some of Ishmael. Therefore, it is apparent that not all Arabs are able to lay claim to Isaac's blessing for Esau!
And, what of the descendants of Lot? Lot did for a short while have his choice of sojourning in the plain, while Abraham dwelt in the mountains. Where are the mountains Abraham dwelt in? They are what we now call the West Bank area of Judea and Samaria! Lot was driven out because of the abominable sin of the people of the cities of the plain. Lot and his daughters became the progenitors of two branches of Arabs. These Arabs cannot claim direct descendancy from Abraham, although they are shirt-tail relatives. Abraham was not given the freedom to share the Covenant, even with his own nephew!
So, what of Ishmael, Abraham's son by Hagar, the bondwoman? Did Ishmael receive a blessing? Yes he did, even though he was the son of a lack of faith! Genesis 17:18-20. "And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year."
The Arab nations now occupy multiplied times more land than the Israelis! They have no need to oust Israel from any part of the former Land of Canaan! In fact, God is not pleased with their desire to take over Israel's Covenant inheritance. The Palestinians, even if they could prove their descendancy, cannot usurp G_d's Covenant of the Land with Jacob!
The Land is not to be possessed by "who was there first." Those who are descended from Esau's marriage with Canaanite wives, who were first in the Land, can no longer be properly identified, because the Canaanites were to be ousted permanently in compliance with G_d's decree when the children of Israel entered Canaan. So, even if the Palestinians could prove to actually be descended from the Canaanites, there would still be no contest!
No matter how we look at it, the Land of Canaan was given by Everlasting Covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
To believe and act otherwise will only lead to more animostites, wars, and unrest. But this does not need to be! The Palestinians must recognize their jealousy of Jacob is futile!
Jacob's inheritance is tiny! Let him have his inheritance. The Arab occupation includes all the lands surrounding the Land of Canaan, but not Canaan itself.

 

[Micah68]

...........No matter how we look at it, the Land of Canaan was given by Everlasting Covenant to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...........
.

Within the biblical context, the 'land' is not an end to itself but an instrument or means by which the people fulfill their high calling. The Israelites were God's tenants, there to do God's bidding. The land is a derivative of the covenant, NOT the goal. The Land was a gift of grace from God, a place to live for services rendered. FAITHFULNESS always being the key.

Deut.
Threat and Blessing following Covenant Disobedience
4:25 After you have produced children and grandchildren and have been in the land a long time, 1 if you become corrupt and make an image of any kind 2 and do other evil things before the Lord your God that enrage him, 3 4:26 I invoke heaven and earth as witnesses against you 4 today that you will surely and swiftly be removed 5 from the very land you are about to cross the Jordan to possess. You will not last long there because you will surely be 6 annihilated.

Gen. 13:15 IS NOT an everlasting promise as God is the landlord and we are but his tenants. Faithfulness to God will always take precedence over 'the land'. I know I have asked this before, Can you tell me why Abraham nor Sarah own any land in Canaan aside from the burial cave at Macpelah near Hebron (Gen. 23:4-20)? Abraham paid Ephon the Hittite the full market value of the land.

 

[thereselittleflower]

You can complain about the government of Israel or any country that is fine.

As long as you don't say that the Jewish Race should not have and Govern the land of cannan.

Baloney Carey . . I can say all I want that the Jewish race shouldn' not have and govern the land of cannan . ..

That has nothng to do with being against a race, but against an ideology for it is an ideology which promotes such an idea and that ideology's name is ZIONISM.

There are many Jews who believe that the Jewish race should not have or govern the land and who are totally against the ideology called ZIONISM.

You are still mixing up "ideas" with "race" simply because the "idea" includes the race.

Given the logic you are employing above, one would be forced to call the opposition to the ideology that gave Germany to the Arians "anti-Arian" and thus "racist". . . .

No . . . untill you separte the two concepts, all you will end up with is a confusing mess.

It does'nt say they jave to do it perfectly . There is no perfect Government on earth ..YET

If you do you are speaking satanic lies.

If I what Carey?

It is interesting that everyone is so hung-up on the debate regarding who has official rights to The Land known historically as "The Land of Canaan."

It seems that this is what you are hung up on . . . can you trace who are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob today?

No . . you can't . . no one can.

So there are no descendents today to whom to give the land to even if your claim of an "everlasting" promise of the land to their descendents were true, which it isn't.

.

 

[Carey]

Anyone who canm excuse away this type of warmongering must be one of these guys in the OP.

[FONT='Trebuchet MS',Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT='Trebuchet MS', Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Iran promises 'response' to Zionism's supporters on Oct. 12[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Supporters of the "Zionist regime" will receive a response from Iran during the world Qods Day rallies on October 12, the IRNA news agency reported government spokesman, Gholam-Hossein Elham, saying Wednesday.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Qods Day is held each year on the last Friday of Ramadan as a day to voice Islamic opposition to Zionism.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"The US loses all opportunities to cooperate with regional and other world states by trying to support a regime [the Zionist regime] which is now at its weakest political and social position," Elham said. The spokesman, who was addressing US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's visit to Israel, did not specify what an Iranian "response" would entail.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]He also warned that Washington's insistence on its wrong policies and arrogant approaches would have no result "but further political disgrace" for itself.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]Elham's remarks came hours after a report by the Fars news agency that the deputy commander of Iran's air force said that plans have been drawn up to bomb Israel if it attacked Iran.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]"We have drawn up a plan to strike back at Israel with our bombers if this regime (Israel) makes a silly mistake," deputy air force chief, Gen. Mohammad Alavi was quoted as telling Fars in an interview.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]The Fars news agency confirmed the quotes when contacted by the Associated Press, but would not provide a tape of the interview. The Iranian Air Force, for its part, had no immediate comment on the interview.[/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[thereselittleflower]

So instead of actually addressing the hard issues raised against your arguments, all we see is an attempt to demonize those who oppose your pro-Isarel/Zionist position with well reasoned, logical arguments and facts since they cannot be disputed?

I see . . . . .

.

 

[Carey]

Within the biblical context, the 'land' is not an end to itself but an instrument or means by which the people fulfill their high calling. The Israelites were God's tenants, there to do God's bidding. The land is a derivative of the covenant, NOT the goal. The Land was a gift of grace from God, a place to live for services rendered. FAITHFULNESS always being the key.



Gen. 13:15 IS NOT an everlasting promise as God is the landlord and we are but his tenants. Faithfulness to God will always take precedence over 'the land'. I know I have asked this before, Can you tell me why Abraham nor Sarah own any land in Canaan aside from the burial cave at Macpelah near Hebron (Gen. 23:4-20)? Abraham paid Ephon the Hittite the full market value of the land.

Because the land was promised to Abrahams decenedents and if you notice out of the Good ness of Abrahams heart he paid for the burial site when the man miraculously was compelled to offer it free.
Abraham was wise and new the time was not yet for all the land.
He did not know all the land would not even come close to being in place until 1967

http://focusonjerusalem.com/maproom5.htmlN

The infamous Six Day War of 1967 found Israel encircled by overwhelmingly superior Arab forces. During the next six days, Israel would capture the ancient Holy City of Jerusalem, and acquire all of the West Bank. Israel stood at the doorway of ending her long exile from her precious Holy sites on the Temple Mount, but alas, that would be denied to them. Nevertheless, the amazing account of the miraculous six-day war is nothing short of miraculous.

Now the complete Land of Israel is not limited to the post-1967 Israeli borders, but comprises the historic Land of Israel of the Covenant (Genesis, 15) and the promised borders. It obviously includes the occupied territories, and especially Judea and Samaria, the very heart of the historic Israeli nation.

 

[Micah68]

Because the land was promised to Abrahams decenedents and if you notice out of the Good ness of Abrahams heart he paid for the burial site when the man miraculously was compelled to offer it free.
Abraham was wise and new the time was not yet for all the land.
He did not know all the land would not even come close to being in place until 1967

http://focusonjerusalem.com/maproom5.htmlN

The infamous Six Day War of 1967 found Israel encircled by overwhelmingly superior Arab forces. During the next six days, Israel would capture the ancient Holy City of Jerusalem, and acquire all of the West Bank. Israel stood at the doorway of ending her long exile from her precious Holy sites on the Temple Mount, but alas, that would be denied to them. Nevertheless, the amazing account of the miraculous six-day war is nothing short of miraculous.

Now the complete Land of Israel is not limited to the post-1967 Israeli borders, but comprises the historic Land of Israel of the Covenant (Genesis, 15) and the promised borders. It obviously includes the occupied territories, and especially Judea and Samaria, the very heart of the historic Israeli nation.

Your historical facts are wrong.

1967 War

In 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful, Pearl Harbor-like surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the additional 22 percent of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948 — the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It also occupied parts of Egypt (which since were returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). 'Focus on Jerusalem' is a Christian Zionist website of which is a cult and hearsay and not of Christ's teachings.

You might want to read 'The Origin of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict'


Also The Washington Report of Middle East Affairs