Anti-Christ European Have I found the framework for the Seven Year Covenant?(Agreement)

Revealing Times said:

No they aren't, you have the TWO-WITNESSES elsewhere as lasting to the end, now you are saying they are killed on day 1260, you are all over the place, needlessly.

So they are killed on 1260 AND near the end of the Seven Years. This statement makes no sense and is Mathematically impossible !!

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You are confusing what I wrote with what iamlamad wrote. He is the one saying the two witnesses are killed at the very end of the 7 years. The math for HIS view works out to the two witnesses being killed on day 2516.5.

My view is completely different. The two witnesses are killed on day 1260.

Douggg said:

RT, I have a degree in civil engineering. In my career position (now retired), part of my job as a project engineer was to take complicated and numerous tasks and events, everything from environmental impact statements, to long lead time material items procurement, coordination of different engineering disciplines, engineering field work, procurement times, construction times, to beneficial occupancy, to capitalization and incorporate those on a project schedule - a timeline.

The process is similar to putting the bible prophecy events on a timeline.

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Sometimes engineers have to change their construction when their ideas do not work out as planned.

Up until 1940 very few bridge engineers considered the phenomenon of "resonance".



Have you ever changed your viewpoint of Bible prophecy, based on what has been presented here by others?

Or, are you still building "Galloping Gertie", even though it came apart?

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Revealing Times said:

Remember verse 6 in Dan. ch. 12, it says when the Holy people are SCATTERED or Flee Judea, from that time on there will be a time, times and half a time until the Wonders Cease or 1260 Days until Jesus Returns.

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Show me in Revelation where you are finding the time, times, half times. I know where it is at, but I want to hear it from you.

So the 1335 means that the event being spoken of is 1335 days until the END of the Wonders.

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It is not wonders as in miracles. It is wonders as amazing events that the angel was telling Daniel about that were going to happen in the end times.

BABerean2 said:

Have you ever changed your viewpoint of Bible prophecy, based on what has been presented here by others?

Or, are you still building "Galloping Gertie", even though it came apart?

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Definitely over the course of 46 years of studying Revelation and the other end times prophecies. But not by what others have presented at this forum, as far timelines go.

What I am saying after being accused of bad math, is that I have a career experience in piecing together timelines. That in itself doesn't make me right on anything. But it does show that I am not foreign to the process.

And I still make typos and sometimes math mistakes.

Douggg said:

And I still make typos and sometimes math mistakes.

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Ignoring the New Covenant of Christ which was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, is just like a bridge engineer continuing to ignore the phenomenon of "resonance".

The New Covenant destroys the Two Peoples of God doctrine in the same way that resonance destroyed the bridge.

Your construction will never be correct until you reject all of the doctrine which you claim you are not a part of and embrace the New Covenant, instead.

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Revealing Times said:

The 3 1/2 days is warping your logistics brother for ZERO REASON, it has nothing to do with anything per se in this Prophecy here nowhere is 3 1/2 days mentioned in Daniel 12 nor he Two-Witnesses. The Two-Witnesses die at the 2nd Woe, not almost 1260 days (minus your 3.5 days) from the End or Jesus' return, that is absurd math brother. Did you make F's in Math?

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Here I will do it for you again, so maybe this time you will get it.

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 1256.5 days = 2520 days.

The bible use 42 months as a nominal way of saying 1256.5 days. So....

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (which are not exactly 1260 days, but 1256.5 days) = 2520 days

BABerean2 said:

Ignoring the New Covenant of Christ which was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, is just like a bridge engineer continuing to ignore the phenomenon of "resonance".

The New Covenant destroys the Two Peoples of God doctrine in the same way that resonance destroyed the bridge.

Your construction will never be correct until you reject all of the doctrine which you claim you are not a part of and embrace the New Covenant, instead.

.

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Again, there is only one way to be saved and that is by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

God is going to bring the Jews, Israel, to the one way of salvation by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Jews, Israel, will become saved, embracing Jesus in Revelation 12:10.

Marilyn C said:

Ok Davy,

However as Jerusalem is still there when the Lord returns sounds like it is not the `city` of Babylon.

Marilyn.

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Even if a city is burned with fire, what remains will still be there. Everything will not disappear. Rock, masonry, stone will not burn. Jesus will certainly return to Jerusalem, but we don't know it what condition that city will be in. Neither do we know how much of the city will be burned. Perhaps the temple will still be there.

Douggg said:

Again, there is only one way to be saved and that is by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

God is going to bring the Jews, Israel, to the one way of salvation by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Jews, Israel, will become saved, embracing Jesus in Revelation 12:10.

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The word "Jews" or "Israel" is not in the verse and there is no reference to the New Covenant in your post.



.

Douggg said:

Here I will do it for you again, so maybe this time you will get it.

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 1256.5 days = 2520 days.

The bible use 42 months as a nominal way of saying 1256.5 days. So....

1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (which are not exactly 1260 days, but 1256.5 days) = 2520 days

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|------------1260 days - ----------7th trumpet-----------1260 days--------------|
7th seal--------1256.5 days-------7th trumpet-----------1260 days --3.5 days--|

7th seal begins the 70th week.
7th Trumpet marks the midpoint
7th vial ends it.

Daniel is told to measure the temple. What time is it? What day of the 2520 days is it?
I submit that it is on the 1256.5 day. The city is to be trampled for 42 months starting at the time of this verse:11:2. Then immediately (11:3) the two witnesses show up. Their time will parallel the 42 months time. Then, 3.5 days later, the man of sin will enter the temple and the daily sacrifices will cease: the abomination!
The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven marking the exact midpoint of the week.
Almost instantly, perhaps a second or two later, those living in Judea that know to run, will begin to flee (12:6) (1260 days of fleeing) and at the same time, Michael, who has been waiting for this moment for a very long time, will go to war with Satan to cast him down from the heavenly realms. The time? It is still very close to the 7th trumpet midpoint.

John gives us 6 parallel paths down the last half of the week.
1. The 42 months of trampling
2. The 1260 days of witnessing
3. The 1260 days of fleeing
4. The 3.5 years of protection and feeding
5. The 42 months of authority
6. John's narrative in chapters 11 on to chapter 16 and the 7th vial that ends the week.

On day 1256.5 of the last half of the week, the 1260 days of witnessing will be finished and the two witnesses will be killed. For 3.5 days they will lay dead. Then, at the 7th vial, they will be raised up and will be seen to rise. But at the same time, but probably invisible, all the Old testament saints will rise.

Note: all five parallel paths down the last half of the week will NOT begin on the same day. It will be a staggered beginning with the man of sin showing up in Jerusalem 3.5 days before he will enter the temple.

The last start (and the last finish) will be the 42 months of authority given to the Beast. He will not be caught until some time AFTER the 7th vial ends the week. Jesus does not return at the 7th vial. It may be 30 days later that Jesus returns. The marriage and supper must wait for the Old Testament saints to arrive as guests. That is why John does not mention the marriage until chapter 19.

It is not difficult if we just take John at his word and don't try to rearrange what he has written.

BABerean2 said:

The word "Jews" or "Israel" is not in the verse and there is no reference to the New Covenant in your post.

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The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel. To her....

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Michael in Daniel 12 stands up for Daniel's people, Israel. In Revelation 12, by warring against Satan and his angels casting them down to earth.

To the Jews in Judea, who don't make into the wilderness in time, Satan is able to make war on them.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How is that not the new coveant in Chrsit as applied to Jeremiah 31?

iamlamad said:

|------------1260 days - ----------7th trumpet-----------1260 days--------------|

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If you stuck with the text.

|------------1260 days - ---3.5 days -------7th trumpet-----------time, times, half times--------------|

Douggg said:

You are confusing what I wrote with what iamlamad wrote. He is the one saying the two witnesses are killed at the very end of the 7 years. The math for HIS view works out to the two witnesses being killed on day 2516.5.

My view is completely different. The two witnesses are killed on day 1260.

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Let's see: 1260 + 1260 = 2520.
2520 -3.5 = 2516.5. Good. You understand my position. But you don't understand the scriptures as to WHY. You don't believe that the two witnesses actually SHOW UP suddenly right at the moment in John's narrative where we first read of them: 11:3. John wrote of them at that place in chapter 11 because that is when they will suddenly appear. They show up at that moment in time because that is the very moment the man of in will arrive in Jerusalem with his Gentile armies.

Douggg said:

If you stuck with the text.

|------------1260 days - ---3.5 days -------7th trumpet-----------time, times, half times--------------|

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I could have, but I chose the 1260 days of witnessing. There is going to be 1260 days on either side of the exact midpoint.

Douggg said:

_______________________________________________________________________________
What I had wrote regarding the account of the two witnesses in Revelation 11, is that they will die on day 1260 of the 2520 day 7 year timeline. And ascend on day 1263.5, leaving 1256.5 days in the 2520 days, which the bible refers to as 42 months.

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John includes several parentheses but had not "marks" or any other way of showing us he is writing a parenthesis. What you are missing is that part of chapter 11 is written as a parenthesis:
11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
(4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
...
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

What is inside this parenthesis has no bearing on John's chronology. John takes us down the path of the last half of the will with the two witnesses, as a SIDE journey. He does the same thing in chapter 13 with the two Beasts.

This great earthquake is the very same earthquake as seen in chapter 16 at the 7th vial.

iamlamad said:

Daniel is told to measure the temple. What time is it? What day of the 2520 days is it?

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It is near the beginning of the 7 years, day 220 when the animal sacrifices begin again. Because temple worship cannot begin again until the animals sacrifices begin again. From Daniel 8...

day 1.....day 220 animal sacrifices begin........2300 days later..... day 2520 Jesus returns.

iamlamad said:

I submit that it is on the 1256.5 day. The city is to be trampled for 42 months starting at the time of this verse:11:2. Then immediately (11:3) the two witnesses show up. Their time will parallel the 42 months time. Then, 3.5 days later, the man of sin will enter the temple and the daily sacrifices will cease: the abomination!
The 7th trumpet will sound in heaven marking the exact midpoint of the week.
Almost instantly, perhaps a second or two later, those living in Judea that know to run, will begin to flee (12:6) (1260 days of fleeing) and at the same time, Michael, who has been waiting for this moment for a very long time, will go to war with Satan to cast him down from the heavenly realms. The time? It is still very close to the 7th trumpet midpoint.

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lamad, go to Revelation 12. There are 1260 days before the war in heaven and Satan cast down the third woe, which last the time, times, half times.

1260 days, the first half testimony time of the two witnesses.
After John is told about the two witnesses, John hears the 7th trumpet which signals the third woe.
Satan then finds in himself in a war in the second heaven is cast down to earth, the third woe, with the time, times, half times - basically the second half.

The Jews start fleeing on day 1185 when the AOD is setup. For 75 days the two witnesses provide cover while they are fleeing. That window to have a real chance of getting into the mountains closes when the two witnesses are killed, and the escape routes cutoff.

I don't disagree that even after that window for fleeing is closed, there will still likely be some that make it out during the second half.

iamlamad said:

I could have, but I chose the 1260 days of witnessing. There is going to be 1260 days on either side of the exact midpoint.

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The problem is that you have the two witnesses 1260 days testimony in the wrong place, by not sticking with the text.

The time, times, half times in the text has to with Satan - the amount of time of the third woe.

Where the events fall....

first half
the 1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6

second half
the 3 1/2 days
the 42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
the time, times, half times, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14.

iamlamad said:

John includes several parentheses but had not "marks" or any other way of showing us he is writing a parenthesis. What you are missing is that part of chapter 11 is written as a parenthesis:
11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
(4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
...
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.)

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

What is inside this parenthesis has no bearing on John's chronology. John takes us down the path of the last half of the will with the two witnesses, as a SIDE journey. He does the same thing in chapter 13 with the two Beasts.

This great earthquake is the very same earthquake as seen in chapter 16 at the 7th vial.

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lamad, you have your parenthesis started in the wrong place. Go back to verse 1, the parenthesis start there in the front of verse 1, as it is the angel telling John what to do. And it is the angel speaking on behalf of God telling John all about the two witnesses all the way to verse 13.

What the angel told John about everything in Chapter 11, largely about the two witnesses as you say could be considered a parenthesis - if one chooses to express it that way. That segment of Revelation ends in verse 13.

The angel in verse 1 is no longer speaking in verse 14.


But John speaking, picking up where he left off where he saw the killing of a third of mankind, the second woe.

Douggg said:

The problem is that you have the two witnesses 1260 days testimony in the wrong place, by not sticking with the text.

The time, times, half times in the text has to with Satan - the amount of time of the third woe.

first half
the 1260 days, Revelation 11:3, 12:6

second half
the 3 1/2 days
the 42 months, Revelation 11:2, 13:5
the time, times, half times, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14.

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The truth is, John does not mention the first half of the week at all! NONE of those mentions of time are for the first half of the week. All five are for the last half of the week.

Did you notice how Jesus skipped over the first half?

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (all this is church age events.)
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Jesus is covering the church age in these verses, (the end is not yet) until He finally gets to verse 14 where He finally mentions "end."
Then in the next verse, He is at the midpoint of the week! He skips right over the first half.

This is exactly what we see in Revelation with these times. John simply does not give us any times (such as 1260 days or 42 months for the first half of the week. We know the first half is there, between the 7th seal and 7th trumpet, but no time is given.

You are ignoring John's chronology. He walks us straight through the week with the minor exceptions of parentheses and intermissions. Take out the parentheses and intermissions and John's chronology is perfect. The problem is, many people don't believe this, so attempt to rearrange.

If you miss the parenthesis in chapter 11, you will imagine (as you do) that the two witnesses must have shown up sometime before or during the trumpets but John did not mention them.

No, the suddenly show up exactly where they are mentioned, which is just 3.5 days before the man of sin will enter the temple. They show up then because HE showed up then.

iamlamad said:

The truth is, John does not mention the first half of the week at all! NONE of those mentions of time are for the first half of the week. All five are for the last half of the week.

Did you notice how Jesus skipped over the first half?

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. (all this is church age events.)
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Jesus is covering the church age in these verses, (the end is not yet) until He finally gets to verse 14 where He finally mentions "end."
Then in the next verse, He is at the midpoint of the week! He skips right over the first half.

This is exactly what we see in Revelation with these times. John simply does not give us any times (such as 1260 days or 42 months for the first half of the week. We know the first half is there, between the 7th seal and 7th trumpet, but no time is given.

You are ignoring John's chronology. He walks us straight through the week with the minor exceptions of parentheses and intermissions. Take out the parentheses and intermissions and John's chronology is perfect. The problem is, many people don't believe this, so attempt to rearrange.

If you miss the parenthesis in chapter 11, you will imagine (as you do) that the two witnesses must have shown up sometime before or during the trumpets but John did not mention them.

No, the suddenly show up exactly where they are mentioned, which is just 3.5 days before the man of sin will enter the temple. They show up then because HE showed up then.

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Can you not read this text and see that before the war in heaven there are 1260 days and after the war in heaven there is a time, times, and half times?

Revelation 12:6 is NOT after the war in heaven.


6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

[the ones who fled into the wilderness, from day 1185 to day 1260]
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

[the ones who did not flee in time, held captive, from escape]
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.