Have any of the creationists here done the following?

rosenherman · Jun 18, 2009

Naraoia said:
Your average monkey turning into something like a human in centuries is still way too sudden. Unless "centuries" includes everything upwards of centuries, too.

Okay, centuries of centuries (I got tired of trying to remember how many L's there are in milllllenia.

sandwiches · Jun 18, 2009

Hespera said:
When you are asked a tough question you /thread, or answer with irrelevancies, or just dont respond.

oh.. and im with loveiseveerywhere in the above post.

Well, I took his "draw the line at saying the Bible is wrong" and subsequent silence as him agreeing with me but being unable to admit it out of principle, which is fine with me.

AV1611VET · Jun 18, 2009

loveiseverywhere said:
Don't leave your car unlocked anymore or I'll steal your Bible.

Take my 1611 King James --- (I got more) --- just don't take my 1560 Geneva Bible --- please!

loveiseverywhere · Jun 18, 2009

AV1611VET said:
Take my 1611 King James --- (I got more) --- just don't take my 1560 Geneva Bible --- please!

Don't you have a Gutenberg Bible I can take?

Naraoia · Jun 18, 2009

loveiseverywhere said:
If they ask me how I can reconcile my faith in Christ with my acceptance in evolution then I will tell them about how reading Kenneth Miller's book Finding Darwin's God (Miller is a Christian Evolutionary Biologist)

Cell biologist, actually. Specialising in membrane structure and function.

rosenherman said:
Okay, centuries of centuries (I got tired of trying to remember how many L's there are in milllllenia.

Two, and two n-s

It still takes an awful lot of millennia, though, unless there's artificial selection involved.

Anyway, I see you understand the time aspect. Now that we've got that out of the way, I'd be really interested to see how you imagine a "bridge species".

I would also like to add that I'm not having a go at you. This is another one of those questions I've asked a zillion times and don't remember ever getting an answer to. But I'm genuinely interested.

When I look at the famous transitional fossils like Archaeopteryx or Tiktaalik, or a bunch of less famous ones*, I can plainly see why they are regarded as transitionals, if only at a very superficial level (I don't claim any expertise in anatomy beyond knowing the names of a few bones). Other people - you, I assume - obviously don't, and I want to see why.

Know thy enemy, or just basic human curiosity, take you pick

*The jaw/middle ear of Yanoconodon is a beautiful recent example (the relevant post is the first hit; for some reason the prudery filter censors part of the post's URL).

Nathan Poe · Jun 18, 2009

AV1611VET said:
You think this is easy? A piece of cake? A walk in the park?

You're living proof that it's a cinch, AV -- Say, "Goddidit," and there's nothing left to argue.

the only time you've ever embarassed yourself is when you've said anything except "Goddidit" -- which, admittedly, you do more and more frequently.

uke2se · Jun 19, 2009

jpcedotal said:
Evolution will never be proven and neither will Creationism.

Evolution has been proven. We have seen it happen, and base our entire knowledge of Biology on the FACT of evolution.

The theory explaining evolution is as close to being proven as science allows outside of mathematics. We continue to add to our knowledge of evolution, and thus, the theory expands, but by now, after 150 years of practical application of the theory, we can with good confidence say that the foundations of the theory are facts.

Creationism cannot be proven. It has already been disproven, so it cannot be true. Belief in creationism is reality-denial of the highest order. Christians and other religious people world-wide have begun to understand this, and most intelligent people now see the Bible as merely metaphorical morality stories. The few die-hards who have too much invested in their bronze-age myth will keep making a horrible fuzz about their ancient philosophies being cast out of our view of reality, but give it a few generations and rationality will rule.

@rosenherman: Please explain this... how can you claim

rosenherman said:
1) Taken a college level Biology course?
YES

when you then go on to state

rosenherman said:
I believe in Intelligent Design. I don't believe there is such a thing as abiogenesis. And since there has never been a "bridge species," for lack of a better word, from and/or to; darwinism is wrong. God started the universe, created earth and started life. How long He took to come up with the mammal we are today I don't know. Fact is I don't care how long He took, it isn't important in any way to my life.

?

Did the course you took not explain evolution?

Hespera · Jun 19, 2009

uke2se said:
Evolution has been proven. We have seen it happen, and base our entire knowledge of Biology on the FACT of evolution.

The theory explaining evolution is as close to being proven as science allows outside of mathematics. We continue to add to our knowledge of evolution, and thus, the theory expands, but by now, after 150 years of practical application of the theory, we can with good confidence say that the foundations of the theory are facts.

Creationism cannot be proven. It has already been disproven, so it cannot be true. Belief in creationism is reality-denial of the highest order. Christians and other religious people world-wide have begun to understand this, and most intelligent people now see the Bible as merely metaphorical morality stories. The few die-hards who have too much invested in their bronze-age myth will keep making a horrible fuzz about their ancient philosophies being cast out of our view of reality, but give it a few generations and rationality will rule.

@rosenherman: Please explain this... how can you claim

when you then go on to state

?

Did the course you took not explain evolution?

This is such an example of the horrifyingly poor and inadequate sort of education that is offered in the public schools in the USA! Not that it isnt the responsibility of individuals to take care of themselves too. At least, it still is now.

But honestly, the dumbed down shallow useless kind of course work that people take is just scary, and its going to be the ruin of this nation. Now that I am a citizen it matters to me.

I wish every American would somehow go see how hard working the students in Korea, Japan, China, HK, Taiwan etc are, and see how serious lminded and hard working everyone is. i feel like the USA is a fat roast turkey just waiting to be carved up. Some of us suspect the carving up has already begun.

All the pride that people take in their ignorance and narrow mindedness now is not going to do them a darn bit of good, that is for sure.

ranmaonehalf · Jun 19, 2009

loveiseverywhere said:
I don't understand why any of us even respond to AVET.

Myself included.

becuase you enjoy playing with Poes?

ranmaonehalf · Jun 19, 2009

rosenherman said:
I'm 52 for pete's sake! I can't remember the names of textbooks from 35 years ago! Get a grip!

wow thats the last time your read on evolution?

rosenherman · Jun 19, 2009

ranmaonehalf said:
wow thats the last time your read on evolution?

That's the last time I read a textbook about evolution. I have read articles concerning evolution.

uke2se · Jun 20, 2009

rosenherman said:
That's the last time I read a textbook about evolution. I have read articles concerning evolution.

Read a new textbook on evolution. You have misunderstood how it works, a common mistake among creationists.

Barring that, watch these youtube films:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76jw0ZB9hA

YouTube - 7 -- The Theory of Evolution Made Easy (for schools)

rosenherman · Jun 20, 2009

If abiogenesis is not included in evolution, what is the difference between evolution and ID?

uke2se · Jun 20, 2009

rosenherman said:
If abiogenesis is not included in evolution, what is the difference between evolution and ID?

Natural selection. It's in one of the videos I provided for you in my post above.

Naraoia · Jun 20, 2009

rosenherman said:
If abiogenesis is not included in evolution, what is the difference between evolution and ID?

For example, supporters of evolution don't think that some biological systems couldn't have evolved

(I'm a bit sad that you haven't answered my transitional fossil question... whatever. It's not compulsory.)

Hespera · Jun 20, 2009

Rosen sez....If abiogenesis is not included in evolution, what is the difference between evolution and ID?QUOTE/////////////////

And Hespera sez....

ID suggests that a supernatural power is responsible for designing and creating life.
Goddidit would be another way of saying it, I suppose.

Evolution describes how natural forces are responsible for life developing as it has. Those natural forces are well known. The mechanism whereby living things can respond to natural forces is well known. There is nothing theoretical about that.

The circumstances of life's origin are totally unknown. There is little in the way of data to use in a theory about it.

We do know a few things:

Life is here; so it started somehow.
large and complex organic molecules do form themselves spontaneously under certain circumstances
At a certain point in geological history life appears in the record
After that, it gets more varied and complex over time.

IF there is no god, AND he didnt do anything to start life, THEN life began spontaneously.

Some organic molecules forming and then replicating themselves seems easier and more believable -to me- than a supernatural being with total power and knowledge, existing eternally outside of time and space deciding to stir things up a bit and let microbes get started on earth.

That is how I see it.

sandwiches · Dec 1, 2011

rosenherman said:
I believe in Intelligent Design. I don't believe there is such a thing as abiogenesis. And since there has never been a "bridge species," for lack of a better word, from and/or to; darwinism is wrong. God started the universe, created earth and started life. How long He took to come up with the mammal we are today I don't know. Fact is I don't care how long He took, it isn't important in any way to my life.

To summarize: "Don't know. Don't care." Sounds AV's and just about every creationist's mantra.

pgp_protector · Dec 1, 2011

sandwiches said:
To summarize: "Don't know. Don't care." Sounds AV's and just about every creationist's mantra.

Really ? 3 Years for that?

Wiccan_Child · Dec 1, 2011

pgp_protector said:
Really ? 3 Years for that?

Hey, catchy lines take a long time to think up.

AV1611VET · Dec 1, 2011

sandwiches said:
To summarize: "Don't know. Don't care." Sounds AV's and just about every creationist's mantra.

Like you go to bed at night worried that tomorrow, when you wake up, if the moon dilemma will be solved yet?

You go to bed, there are six different theories as to how we got our moon.

You wake up, there are six different theories as to how we got our moon.

And, in fact, the older you get, the more theories show up.

And I won't even mention abiogenesis.

In short, if you can sleep at night, don't try and convince me you're sick of our lack of caring.

Try that mirror, chief.

Have any of the creationists here done the following?

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