"Hate the Sin" Hypocrisy

[FlaviusAetius]

when you love heroine addict, you do not want them to just do whatever they want

you want them to get better, to live a fuller life of dignity and virtue, for them to be the best person they can be

Here's the issue for me. Heroin is destructive in a earthly sense, it affects you in this world. Homosexual is a sinful life that can offer stability, romantic love, monogamy and a home for a child to be raised.

So are you saying those three things are equivalent to a crack addict because it's same sex?

 

[Rhamiel]

Here's the issue for me. Heroin is destructive in a earthly sense, it affects you in this world. Homosexual is a sinful life that can offer stability, romantic love, monogamy and a home for a child to be raised.

So are you saying those three things are equivalent to a crack addict because it's same sex?

why should I only look at the "earthly sense"?
I believe in the immortal soul, heaven, and hell
so my concerns are for more then just the earthly

if you do not believe in the soul, I understand why this would seem like less of an issue (or no issue at all)
like we can go back and forth about issues of culture and family structure, we can make arguments on both sides of this if it is harmful in an "earthly sense"

but my main point is, if a person thinks that the soul, heaven, and hell are all real, then it makes sense for them to proceed accordingly

 

[FlaviusAetius]

why should I only look at the "earthly sense"?
I believe in the immortal soul, heaven, and hell
so my concerns are for more then just the earthly

if you do not believe in the soul, I understand why this would seem like less of an issue (or no issue at all)
like we can go back and forth about issues of culture and family structure, we can make arguments on both sides of this if it is harmful in an "earthly sense"

but my main point is, if a person thinks that the soul, heaven, and hell are all real, then it makes sense for them to proceed accordingly

Because you alienate your faith when you tell non Christians that gays are equal to crack addicts in your and God's eyes.

Can you see why secularists don't tolerate Christian thoughts when they see crack addicts and a gay couple raising a kid as the same thing?

Also do you push legal restrictions on sinful acts based solely on God disliking them? I seem to recall Christians grasping at straws trying to claim statistics that gays naturally are incapable of being good parents or being monogamous.

 

[Genersis]

I think it's important to keep in mind that everyone, be it due to their culture, personal beliefs, or religious beliefs, create in-groups and out-groups. Those they instinctively trust and treat with respect, and those they do not. It's in our nature to do so.

Religious beliefs can more overtly influence and codify how their believers classify others though. Intentionally or unintentionally.

Personally, I believe that we(humanity) should try our best to be egalitarian and reasoned in our treatment of all, with no preference or prejudice based on a person's identity, but rather their personal actions.

 

[Rhamiel]

Because you alienate your faith when you tell non Christians that gays are equal to crack addicts in your and God's eyes.

did I say "these two things are exactly the same in every way"

I made an analogy to show thoughts about love and people who are engaging in destructive behavior

since you do not believe in the immortal soul, I used had to use something that was physically destructive for the analogy

also, for it to be a clear analogy, I had to use something that everyone could agree would be destructive

so no, I never said that these things were equal in my eyes or in the eyes of the Lord

Can you see why secularists don't tolerate Christian thoughts when they see crack addicts and a gay couple raising a kid as the same thing?

who ever said they are the same thing? clearly they are different things, one is a person smoking a drug, the other is a couple raising a child
two very different things



ok, I am horrible with analogies, this is a question for you, forget all that other stuff I said

"how do you show love for people who are doing something that is harmful to themselves or others around them?"

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Our fight has mostly been defensive. See the following:
Basic Biology
sperm (♂) + egg (♀) = baby
sperm (♂) + sperm (♂) = nothing
egg (♀) + egg (♀) = nothing

Full USA Today article

You forgot about the magnets.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

You forgot about the magnets.

I said enough.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

when you love heroine addict, you do not want them to just do whatever they want

you want them to get better, to live a fuller life of dignity and virtue, for them to be the best person they can be

Well, true enough but after you've tried to clean them up 2 or 3 times and it doesn't take what do you do ?

Well,

England is just gives them nice, clean heroin on a set dosage. See, you can live as a heroin addict assuming two things:

1) You can fix when you need to
2) The needle and heroin are clean.

Heroin in and of itself doesn't do much damage to your body. So the Health department in England just lets them have it if they decide they can't change the addict.

It works out really well for everyone.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I said enough.

It's all about the MAGNETS man

You just can't ignore them.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

did I say "these two things are exactly the same in every way"

I made an analogy to show thoughts about love and people who are engaging in destructive behavior

since you do not believe in the immortal soul, I used had to use something that was physically destructive for the analogy

also, for it to be a clear analogy, I had to use something that everyone could agree would be destructive

so no, I never said that these things were equal in my eyes or in the eyes of the Lord





who ever said they are the same thing? clearly they are different things, one is a person smoking a drug, the other is a couple raising a child
two very different things



ok, I am horrible with analogies, this is a question for you, forget all that other stuff I said

"how do you show love for people who are doing something that is harmful to themselves or others around them?"

Obviously convince them to quit the destructive behavior.

However the behavior of a gay monogamous family isn't destructive to themselves nor to others. It's only hated by God and it's God who ends up sending them to Hell over it, even if they're faithful to one another and raise a child together.

It seems like the equivalent of being a Christian in ISIS lands. There is nothing objectively destructive about being Christian, but doing so will get you killed because ISIS hates Christians.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The problem is that we see the positive results, but the negative are swept out of sight, and because it's a new idea, we won't see the results for another 20 years or more.

So, what happens after 20 years and we see that kids raised by same-sex couple's are dysfunctional emotionally and can't tell right from wrong and we have a new subculture of adults living on the fringe of sanity ? It will be impossible to reverse the negative on such people and we'll have to live with the consequences.

Heck, I was watching the news about the riots in Milwaukee the other day, and they were interviewing some of the rioters, including the brother of the suspect that was shot by the cops. The level of ignorance and incoherent vocabulary was shocking. However, thinking about it, they are the result of social engineering 15-25 years ago, where being a single mother was not a problem and even celebrated in their social environment. The kids had no father and an incompetent mother who essentially abandoned them to the streets. We mow have a subculture of barbarians in the inner cities of America.

I'm not saying this will be the same result of kids raised by same-sex couples, but I have seen the negatives from such kids who are now coming into adulthood. Its only a matter of time before we'll know whether or not, gay parenting is as good as traditional parenting with a child having a mother and a father.

Jim

On The O'Reilly Factor last night, it was about the Milwaukee riots, and Charles Krauthammer, making a similar point that you are making about the breakdown of the traditional family with most blacks, made the point that the function of the traditional family is to civilize boys so that they can be civilized men when they grow up. Here's the show episode:

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

On The O'Reilly Factor last night, it was about the Milwaukee riots, and Charles Krauthammer, making a similar point that you are making about the breakdown of the traditional family with most blacks, made the point that the function of the traditional family is to civilize boys so that they can be civilized men when they grow up.

Billo the clown and Chuckie the cabbage head don't have a combined IQ in triple digits.

 

[Rhamiel]

Obviously convince them to quit the destructive behavior.

However the behavior of a gay monogamous family isn't destructive to themselves nor to others. It's only hated by God and it's God who ends up sending them to Hell over it, even if they're faithful to one another and raise a child together.

It seems like the equivalent of being a Christian in ISIS lands. There is nothing objectively destructive about being Christian, but doing so will get you killed because ISIS hates Christians.

well saying "it is only hated by God" makes it seem like you have a total and complete understanding of homosexuality on cultural issues

what about this scenario, someone is in a low income neighborhood, and they cheat on the SAT and several other tests to be able to go to a quality university
is it "hateful" to kick that person out? they are only trying to improve their life by going to a good school, is it worth it to ruin someone's life in the name of "fairness" because them cheating offends some ephemeral idea nebulous idea of "fairness"?

God made these rules for us, we can either choose to be his friend, or we can choose not to be his friend
if you had a friend who cussed you out every time you saw him, maybe you would choose not to stay his friend anymore
God says you can not do gay stuff if you want to be His friend, no one is MAKING them be friends with God, they can choose to go to Hell, a lot of folk choose that because they do not really like God all that much, that is their choice

and you got on my case for comparing active homosexuality and using heroine
now you compare God to ISIS
come on man, you can not act all offended when I use an analogy, and then go out and say something like this.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

well saying "it is only hated by God" makes it seem like you have a total and complete understanding of homosexuality on cultural issues

what about this scenario, someone is in a low income neighborhood, and they cheat on the SAT and several other tests to be able to go to a quality university
is it "hateful" to kick that person out? they are only trying to improve their life by going to a good school, is it worth it to ruin someone's life in the name of "fairness" because them cheating offends some ephemeral idea nebulous idea of "fairness"?

God made these rules for us, we can either choose to be his friend, or we can choose not to be his friend
if you had a friend who cussed you out every time you saw him, maybe you would choose not to stay his friend anymore
God says you can not do gay stuff if you want to be His friend, no one is MAKING them be friends with God, they can choose to go to Hell, a lot of folk choose that because they do not really like God all that much, that is their choice

and you got on my case for comparing active homosexuality and using heroine
now you compare God to ISIS
come on man, you can not act all offended when I use an analogy, and then go out and say something like this.

You agreed that gays and crack addicts were apples and oranges. However ISIS and God both torture people based solely on certain actions they find repulsive.

However at least ISIS can only torture us in this life for a limited time. God intends to punish those he hates for eternity.

 

[Rhamiel]

You agreed that gays and crack addicts were apples and oranges. However ISIS and God both torture people based solely on certain actions they find repulsive.

However at least ISIS can only torture us in this life for a limited time. God intends to punish those he hates for eternity.

and putting pedophiles in prison is "torture" for them
are you against prisons too?

and we put them in prison based solely on certain actions we find repulsive

it is called justice

if you can not do the time, do not do the crime

and I did not agree that it was apples and oranges, both are actions that are harmful
that does not mean they are bad to an equal degree or harmful in the same way
but it is not "apples and oranges"

 

[FlaviusAetius]

and putting pedophiles in prison is "torture" for them
are you against prisons too?

and we put them in prison based solely on certain actions we find repulsive

it is called justice

if you can not do the time, do not do the crime

and I did not agree that it was apples and oranges, both are actions that are harmful
that does not mean they are bad to an equal degree or harmful in the same way
but it is not "apples and oranges"

And yet you worship a God who punishes child molesters with the same punishment as someone who doesn't go to Sunday Mass. There is no justice in that.

Also a pedophile does notable harm to children, meanwhile a ideal gay family does no more harm than a ideal heterosexual family would do. And yet to be Christian you must accept gays together deserve eternal fire and torture.

It contradicts every notion of Christians as loving.

 

[FlaviusAetius]

Also can anyone else vouch for this notion?

Is morality just "might makes right" and God is mightiest?

 

[Rhamiel]

And yet you worship a God who punishes child molesters with the same punishment as someone who doesn't go to Sunday Mass.

who said the punishment is the same?
do you think all suffering in hell is equal?

There is no justice in that.

who are you to say what is and is not just?

Also a pedophile does notable harm to children,

this assumes that those who harm others deserve to be punished

now I think this, but I am a Christian

so from a secular view, what basis to you have for human rights other then "might makes right"?

meanwhile a ideal gay family does no more harm than a ideal heterosexual family would do.

prove this

you assume to have total understanding of the effects of a society accepting homosexuality as normal and in some cases beneficial

It contradicts every notion of Christians as loving

no, if we did not love gay people we would not tell them about hell
we would just chuckle among ourselves and then laugh our butts off when they were roasting in hell

THIS would be what Christians would do if we did not love people

we are trying to SAVE people from hell
even though self righteous SJW call us names for it, we still try to save people
sometimes we do a crummy job of it, and we are not very artful, sometimes we are ineffective
but we are very loving

 

[smaneck]

Never seen this at all, though I do think that there are downsides to raising a child in a homosexual home but do not think that they should be banned from being able to raise children... I have especially never heard any Catholic I have met speak in this sentiment... Maybe Baptists... !

Doesn't Catholic Charities refuse to allow gays to adopt or foster children?

 

[Tree of Life]

Scenario: monogamous gay couple who adopt a child to raise to adulthood

Secularists: Good and civic people who save a child from our sub par foster care system. A clear example of the benefits of increasing the rights given to US citizens.

Catholics: damned degenerate sinners who are damning a child by raising it. It is a mistake of our government to officially accept this kind of family.

Are these really the only outlooks available to us? Both seem overly simplistic.