Has The Law of The "Old Testament" Been Abolished?

[AnonymousGuy44]

Has the law of the "Old testament" been abolished? Are Christians required to keep it?

What do you think?

Personally, I think it has not been abolished and we are to keep it, based on these passages, and many more.

Yeshua/Jesus says in Mathew 5:17-19

"17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Romans 3:31

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Hebrews 8: 7-10

"7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE."


Going by just the passages from Mathew and Hebrews, When Yeshua/Jesus came and died, the law was NOT abolished, but was written on our hearts to never forget, rather than on stone.

 

[Chinchilla]

Not abolished but just Fulfilled Matthew 5:17

also this is good lecture

Romans 5

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord

 

[Yarddog]

The Mosaic Law has not been abolished but only those who place them under the Law, the Tree of Knowledge, are under it.

 

[AnonymousGuy44]

Not abolished but just Fulfilled Matthew 5:17

also this is good lecture

Romans 5

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord

That is a very good passage. I do believe the law was fulfilled, but not abolished. Many Christians argue that it was done away with, and we are no longer to keep it.

 

[tampasteve]

Welcome, I agree with your point of view. Stop by the Messianic Judaism forum if you would like, it is pretty active.
Messianic Judaism

 

[gomerian]

Going by just the passages from Mathew and Hebrews, When Yeshua/Jesus came and died, the law was NOT abolished, but was written on our hearts to never forget, rather than on stone.

But the letter to the Hebrews says the Old Testament is 'vanishing away': 'Least in the Kingdom', are those who teach against what Moses wrote... judged as goats, are all of those 'hirelings' who ever preached against 'Jesus' words of eternal life'.

 

[gomerian]

That is a very good passage. I do believe the law was fulfilled, but not abolished. Many Christians argue that it was done away with, and we are no longer to keep it.

Until the vials of wrath are poured out upon the covenant breakers, the whole law has not been fulfilled.

 

[gomerian]

The Mosaic Law has not been abolished but only those who place them under the Law, the Tree of Knowledge, are under it.

Before you knew that eating foods sacrificed to demons was evil, you were not accountable; but now that you know, you are.

 

[amariselle]

Has the law of the "Old testament" been abolished? Are Christians required to keep it?

What do you think?

Personally, I think it has not been abolished and we are to keep it, based on these passages, and many more.

Yeshua/Jesus says in Mathew 5:17-19

"17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Romans 3:31

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Hebrews 8: 7-10

"7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE."


Going by just the passages from Mathew and Hebrews, When Yeshua/Jesus came and died, the law was NOT abolished, but was written on our hearts to never forget, rather than on stone.

It depends what you mean by “are Christians required to keep it?” (The Law)

For salvation? No. (And indeed no one has perfectly kept the Law in thought, word and deed, from birth to death, but Christ.) This is why only He could be the “propitiation” for sin.

Sin is transgression of the Law, and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

 

[gomerian]

Not abolished but just Fulfilled Matthew 5:17

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus didn't "come to destroy (the Law), but to fulfill (the Prophets)."

See what He did there? Jesus can hardly be said to have fulfilled the cursings part of the Law, but He did fulfill the Prophecies which are written about Him.

 

[dreadnought]

Has the law of the "Old testament" been abolished? Are Christians required to keep it?

What do you think?

Personally, I think it has not been abolished and we are to keep it, based on these passages, and many more.

Yeshua/Jesus says in Mathew 5:17-19

"17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Romans 3:31

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Hebrews 8: 7-10

"7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;
FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT,
AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE."


Going by just the passages from Mathew and Hebrews, When Yeshua/Jesus came and died, the law was NOT abolished, but was written on our hearts to never forget, rather than on stone.

In the Old Testament I believe you need to differentiate between commandments and religious rites. As Christians we don't follow the Jewish religious rites - we have our own Christian rites, some specific to our denominations. However, a commandment is a commandment and pertains to us all.

 

[Chinchilla]

5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus didn't "come to destroy (the Law), but to fulfill (the Prophets)."

See what He did there? Jesus can hardly be said to have fulfilled the cursings part of the Law, but He did fulfill the Prophecies which are written about Him.

Deuteronomy 21:23
His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God; ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Acts 5:30-31
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Jesus fullfilled all Law i agree .

 

[gomerian]

Has the law of the "Old testament" been abolished?

Hebrews 8: 7-10

"7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,

Where does Jeremiah 31:31-36 say, or even imply,
that the Covenant of God is at fault and/or flawed?

 

[gomerian]

Jesus fullfilled all Law

This remains to be fulfilled of the Law:

Deuteronomy 28:60 Moreover He will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee. 61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which [is] not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.

And here is it's fulfillment:

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Isn't it written somewhere that the soul that sins shall die?

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Isn't it also written, If Ye Love Me, Keep My Commandments?
Jesus says that the Father's words are the words of eternal life.
And so does Moses.

 

[AnonymousGuy44]

Where does Jeremiah 31:31-36 say, or even imply,
that the Covenant of God is at fault and/or flawed?

I'm pretty sure that passage is referring to the fact that the law makes us aware of sin. As Paul, if I am not mistaken, wrote, "If Law did not say, 'You shall not covet, I would not have known what coveting was'. It makes us aware of sin, and once we are aware of sin, we begin to become tempted. That is where Yeshua.Jesus comes in, sent by God to save us of our sins .

I believe, we are to keep the law, and obey it to refrain from sin. And if we fall away, Yeshua's sacrifice is the there for redemption.

 

[Strong in Him]

Has the law of the "Old testament" been abolished? Are Christians required to keep it?

No it hasn't been abolished.
No we are not required to keep it.

It was given to the Israelites; those who had been rescued, by God, from slavery in Egypt, led to Mt Sinai, given his word and instructed how to live as his holy people.
We have been rescued from slavery to sin by Jesus who came to bring and confirm God's NEW covenant. Because of Jesus, who IS the word of God, we have new life and become not only God's people, but his children. Jesus makes us holy and righteous; in him we have every spiritual blessing.

Jesus fulfilled the law for the Jews - a Jew today may learn that Jesus is the Messiah and fulfilment of the law and prophets.
We, gentiles, were not given, or put under, Jewish law. We have only Jesus - thankfully, he is all we need.

 

[AnonymousGuy44]

No it hasn't been abolished.
No we are not required to keep it.

It was given to the Israelites; those who had been rescued, by God, from slavery in Egypt, led to Mt Sinai, given his word and instructed how to live as his holy people.
We have been rescued from slavery to sin by Jesus who came to bring and confirm God's NEW covenant. Because of Jesus, who IS the word of God, we have new life and become not only God's people, but his children. Jesus makes us holy and righteous; in him we have every spiritual blessing.

Jesus fulfilled the law for the Jews - a Jew today may learn that Jesus is the Messiah and fulfilment of the law and prophets.
We, gentiles, were not given, or put under, Jewish law. We have only Jesus - thankfully, he is all we need.

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the law was not abolished.

I disagree that it is only for the Jews, and that Christians don't have to keep it. Read my previous reply .

 

[AnonymousGuy44]

No it hasn't been abolished.
No we are not required to keep it.

It was given to the Israelites; those who had been rescued, by God, from slavery in Egypt, led to Mt Sinai, given his word and instructed how to live as his holy people.
We have been rescued from slavery to sin by Jesus who came to bring and confirm God's NEW covenant. Because of Jesus, who IS the word of God, we have new life and become not only God's people, but his children. Jesus makes us holy and righteous; in him we have every spiritual blessing.

Jesus fulfilled the law for the Jews - a Jew today may learn that Jesus is the Messiah and fulfilment of the law and prophets.
We, gentiles, were not given, or put under, Jewish law. We have only Jesus - thankfully, he is all we need.

Yeshua/Jesus himself said in Mathew, as I quoted in my post, "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Would you, or any other real Christian, want be called in least in God's Kingdom? This very passage here, from Yeshua himself, shows that God still cares whether or not his children keep his Law. It is undoubtedly that God wants all of his children, Jews and Christians alike, to follow his Law.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”....Luke 24:44

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not passaway.

Jesus and the New Testament fulfilled the Law of the old testament . Jesus shed his blood as a sign of the new covenant and the old covenant was erased.

 

[Strong in Him]

I agree and disagree.

I agree that the law was not abolished.

Yeshua/Jesus says in Mathew 5:17-19

"17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Jesus has fulfilled the law.
Nothing will disappear from the Jewish law, no; that doesn't mean that Christians who trust in Jesus as their Saviour still need to keep this law.

19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

I'm not saying Christians don't keep the 10 commandments.
When I say "law" I am thinking primarily of all the hygiene regulations like, "don't eat ........" "don't wear clothes with mixed fibres", "do not trim your beard", Leviticus 19:27.

Romans 3:31

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

Paul saying that he upheld the law - though I don't know what he meant by that, since he was clear that the law does not save - is not the same as saying that all Christians have to keep the law given to Moses.

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Where does that say that Christians who trust in Christ - the one who fulfilled the law - have to keep that law themselves?

Hebrews 8: 7-10

"7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

8For finding fault with them, He says,
“BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,
WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT
WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;

Yes, a new covenant was needed because the old one had been broken, by Israel, so many times.

9NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS
ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND
TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT;

This is what I said; the covenant was made with the people that God rescued from slavery in Egypt.
Exodus 20:1-2
And God spoke all these words:
2 ‘I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Exodus 23:9
Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt.
Exodus 23:15
Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread; for seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 5:1-3
Moses summoned all Israel and said:
Hear, Israel, the decrees and the laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
Deuteronomy 16:1
Observe the month of Aviv and celebrate the Passover of the Lord your God, because in the month of Aviv he brought you out of Egypt by night.

and so on.
I was not personally rescued by God from slavery in Egypt, nor were any of my ancestors. But I HAVE been rescued from death and slavery to sin by Jesus.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,
AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.
AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,
AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE."

Jesus said that the 10 commandments are summed up in two; love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbour as yourself. He commanded us to love, and gave us a new commandment; to love as he does.
We can have his word in our hearts because Jesus, the Word, can live in us through the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that he would send the Spirit after he ascended to heaven, to live in his followers, to remind them of everything that he taught and to give them the words when people opposed them for being his followers. The Spirit also assures, and confirms to, us that we are children of God, Romans 8:16-17.

Going by just the passages from Mathew and Hebrews, When Yeshua/Jesus came and died, the law was NOT abolished, but was written on our hearts to never forget, rather than on stone.

Maybe by taking certain passages out of context instead of looking at ALL that Jesus taught, you can form that conclusion; I disagree with it.

I disagree that it is only for the Jews, and that Christians don't have to keep it.

So what parts of the law do you believe Christians have to keep? All of it?
The law contains commands about animal sacrifices; which animals to offer for which sins. Even Jews don't keep that now, and we believe in Jesus who offered his life, once and for all, as a sacrifice for sin.
The law contains commands about going to the temple to celebrate the feasts and festivals of God. The Jews still celebrate these, but not in the temple, as they don't have one.

These are two examples of commands written in the law which even the Jews don't keep. I'm sure you'd agree that Jesus has fulfilled the need to offer sacrifices to atone for our sin, so therefore, we don't keep that.
So straight away, we are seeing part of the Jewish law that is not for us.

Maybe you believe we have to keep the laws that relate to personal hygiene; women being unclean at certain times of the month, people with skin conditions being unclean? Maybe you believe that no Christian can be an undertaker, since Jewish law says that touching a dead body makes you unclean? Maybe you believe that we all have to wear robes so that we can keep the laws that pertain to wearing robes, and that all men should grow beards so they can obey the command to never trim them?

If so, that is your interpretation and a personal choice.
But if you are saying that we need to keep the law, that surely means all of it, including animal sacrifices, taking your tithe of crops and fruit to the temple in Jerusalem, and going to the temple to observe the Jewish feasts - good luck with that one. If you then say "ah but Jesus fulfilled that/that part is not necessary because it was fulfilled" then you are admitting that there is part of the law that we cannot, and do not need to, keep.
In addition, Jesus healed on the Sabbath and the disciples ate corn on the Sabbath, and Jesus taught that he is the Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus taught that food does not make us unclean, and Paul later echoed this when he said that food does not bring us nearer to God, 1 Corinthians 8:8. Paul also taught that circumcision doesn't save, and that anyone who taught otherwise was a false teacher.

So why do some people insist that we are to keep the Jewish law when this is not possible - or necessary?