Has the Holy Spirit explicitly led you to keep the Sabbath?

[BABerean2]

And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. (John 16:8 NLT)

The verse clearly applies to the Second Coming of Christ.

Is it now legal for New Covenant believers to work on the Sabbath day, as Jesus worked in the passage below?

Why was it legal for Jesus to work on the Sabbath day?


The Healing at the Pool on the Sabbath

Joh 5:1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Joh 5:2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
Joh 5:3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.
Joh 5:4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
Joh 5:5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
Joh 5:6 When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
Joh 5:7 The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
Joh 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Joh 5:11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
Joh 5:12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
Joh 5:13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Joh 5:15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


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[Leaf473]

Brother, yes! Those who have accepted the evidence of a day of the week from morning to morning will understand Hebrews 3 and 4. Unfortunately, I have not found anyone on this forum who is one of those who accepts the evidence of God's definition of a day from morning to morning. In the following passage, "another day" refers to a different day than the one thought for the Sabbath since Joshua: not the seventh day of the week everywhere, but the seventh day of the creation week remembered in the time zone of creation.

Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. (Hebrews 4:8 NLT)​

God gave instructions to remember the Sabbath in Jerusalem at an earlier time, from evening to evening than the seventh day of the week from morning to morning, defined in Genesis and confirmed below.

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

If you encounter someone either on this forum or in real life who has the same understanding of how to enter into God's rest that you do, please let me know. I'm interested.

 

[guevaraj]

Why was it legal for Jesus to work on the Sabbath day?

Brother, happy Sabbath! The concept of work is different for God than it is for us. For God, work is tied to whose work you are doing: whether you are working for God or for yourself. This is different from how the Jews understood the word "work". This is important in Genesis with the word we translate as "evening". God defines His own words and is not limited to human definitions. So Jesus would have stopped doing carpentry on the Sabbath, but He healed people on the Sabbath. Jesus tells us next the law allows good works on the Sabbath.

And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:11-12 NLT)​

How can we see this in the written law? One way is for God not to be a part of our household! Jesus resided in the earthly temple prior to His incarnation and death. The earthly temple "copy" was a stand-in for the true temple in heaven where He daily forgives our sins from heaven after His death. We can work for God who is not part of our household. In fact, no household could contain Him.

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the LORD your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The concept of work is different for God than it is for us. For God, work is tied to whose work you are doing: whether you are working for God or for yourself. This is different from how the Jews understood the word "work". This is important in Genesis with the word we translate as "evening". God defines His own words and is not limited to human definitions. So Jesus would have stopped doing carpentry on the Sabbath, but He healed people on the Sabbath. Jesus tells us next the law allows good works on the Sabbath.

And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:11-12 NLT)​

How can we see this in the written law? One way is for God not to be a part of our household! Jesus resided in the earthly temple prior to His incarnation and death. The earthly temple "copy" was a stand-in for the true temple in heaven where He daily forgives our sins from heaven after His death. We can work for God who is not part of our household. In fact, no household could contain Him.

“Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the LORD your God. On that day no one in your household may do any work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy. (Exodus 20:8-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

If your interpretation of the passage is correct, why were people stoned in the Old Testament for working on the Sabbath day?


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


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[guevaraj]

If your interpretation of the passage is correct, why were people stoned in the Old Testament for working on the Sabbath day?

Brother, from Jesus' account in the following passage, those who worked to get their sheep out of a well on the Sabbath, possibly with the help of neighbors, were not stoned to death.

And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:11-12 NLT)​

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

What is replaced is the animal sacrifices, which were a stand-in for the death of Jesus and not the Ten Commandments that show our victory over sin. Jesus actually added one more commandment for a total of 11 commandments in the new covenant. This next passage tells us two things: the animal sacrifices can "never" take away sin and sin is taken away by Jesus for "all" time, including the time when animal sacrifices were made. Without Jesus' death, all those animal sacrifices would be worthless because they borrowed credit from Jesus' future death.

Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. (Hebrews 10:11-12 NLT)​

united in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, from Jesus' account in the following passage, those who worked to get their sheep out of a well on the Sabbath, possibly with the help of neighbors, were not stoned to death.

And he answered, “If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn’t you work to pull it out? Of course you would. And how much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Yes, the law permits a person to do good on the Sabbath.” (Matthew 12:11-12 NLT)​

What is replaced is the animal sacrifices, which were a stand-in for the death of Jesus and not the Ten Commandments that show our victory over sin. Jesus actually added one more commandment for a total of 11 commandments in the new covenant. This next passage tells us two things: the animal sacrifices can "never" take away sin and sin is taken away by Jesus for "all" time, including the time when animal sacrifices were made. Without Jesus' death, all those animal sacrifices would be worthless because they borrowed credit from Jesus' future death.

Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. (Hebrews 10:11-12 NLT)​

united in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Are you keeping the 11 commandments perfectly?

What percentage of your salvation is based upon your works?


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[guevaraj]

Are you keeping the 11 commandments perfectly?

Brother, no! That is why we have Jesus as our High Priest to help us daily to obey the commandments, like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until we no longer fall into sin. As long as we are "growing" individually and collectively, paying attention to the leading of the Holy Spirit, we are on the right track. "What we will be has not yet been made known", what the Bible does say is that when Jesus returns, "we will be like him."

See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:1-3 NIV)​

God has not changed how He deals with sin from the beginning by the death of Jesus. However, the necessary death of Jesus took place in the middle of God's implementation of His plan to save us from sin, changing the situation before Jesus' death from that after Jesus' death, although the plan is the same. Before Jesus' death, a "copy" of the temple was established on Earth to show what will happen later in the heavenly temple after Jesus' death. His ministry as our High Priest is to forgive our sins daily, giving us as many opportunities as we need to grow in obedience to the commandments that show our victory over sin.

Here is the main point: We have a High Priest who sat down in the place of honor beside the throne of the majestic God in heaven. There he ministers in the heavenly Tabernacle, the true place of worship that was built by the Lord and not by human hands. And since every high priest is required to offer gifts and sacrifices, our High Priest must make an offering, too. If he were here on earth, he would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law. They serve in a system of worship that is only a copy, a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the Tabernacle, God gave him this warning: “Be sure that you make everything according to the pattern I have shown you here on the mountain.” (Hebrews 8:1-5 NLT)​

What percentage of your salvation is based upon your works?

It is a cycle of forgiveness to perfection! Every time you are forgiven, you are perfect until you sin again and need forgiveness again. This cycle is so fast with Jesus compared to animal sacrifices that most of the time you are perfect, having been forgiven daily.

Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is. And all who have this eager expectation will keep themselves pure, just as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

His ministry as our High Priest is to forgive our sins daily, giving us as many opportunities as we need to grow in obedience to the commandments that show our victory over sin.

Do you think Jesus did not fulfill the forgiveness of your sins at Calvary?

Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

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[guevaraj]

Do you think Jesus did not fulfill the forgiveness of your sins at Calvary? Joh 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Brother, we are not automatically forgiven by the death of Jesus, we are forgiven when we turn to Jesus as our High Priest to "intercede" for us. Repeated is this cycle until separated is all sins from our character. This cycle after Jesus is faster and eternal compared to animal sacrifices, which clearly showed the repetition until removed is all sin from us.

Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever. (Hebrews 7:25-28 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, we are not automatically forgiven by the death of Jesus, we are forgiven when we turn to Jesus as our High Priest to "intercede" for us. Repeated is this cycle until separated is all sins from our character. This cycle after Jesus is faster and eternal compared to animal sacrifices, which clearly showed the repetition until removed is all sin from us.

Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever. (Hebrews 7:25-28 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

If you keep going back time after time to get your sins covered, I have to wonder if you really understand the New Covenant?


The New Covenant: Bob George

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[guevaraj]

If you keep going back time after time to get your sins covered, I have to wonder if you really understand the New Covenant?

Brother, your video contains human arguments in contradiction to the word of God. It is true that Jesus does not "die again and again" as is said in the following passage, but it also says that we have to return to Jesus again and again to obtain forgiveness for our sins since before Jesus' death without Him having to die again and again. Before Jesus' death, sinners in Judaism needed Jesus' forgiveness for their sins over and over again through animal sacrifices that borrowed credit from Jesus' future death.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

It is true that Jesus does not "die again and again" as is said in the following passage, but it also says that we have to return to Jesus again and again to obtain forgiveness for our sins since before Jesus' death without Him having to die again and again. Before Jesus' death, sinners in Judaism needed Jesus' forgiveness for their sins over and over again through animal sacrifices that borrowed credit from Jesus' future death.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)

I am having a hard time finding your interpretation in the text you provided above.

I see nothing about us having to return to Jesus again and again to obtain forgiveness for our sins.

The salvation process is found below.

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

You hear.
You believe.
You are sealed with the Holy Spirit. (See also Romans 8:9)


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[guevaraj]

I am having a hard time finding your interpretation in the text you provided above. I see nothing about us having to return to Jesus again and again to obtain forgiveness for our sins.

Brother, happy Sabbath! The evidence that Jesus does not have to die again and again, even though He has been forgiving "since the world began", is in our past! I will highlight the part where it says that "If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again since the world began" because the need for His forgiveness was since Adan and Eve sinned by disobeying God and eating from the tree they were told not to eat of.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, happy Sabbath! The evidence that Jesus does not have to die again and again, even though He has been forgiving "since the world began", is in our past! I will highlight the part where it says that "If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again since the world began" because the need for His forgiveness was since Adan and Eve sinned by disobeying God and eating from the tree they were told not to eat of.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I can read the highlighted text just fine. I agree 100% with what is says about what Christ has done.

However, it says nothing about us repeatedly asking for our sins to be forgiven, as you are indicating.

Can you explain the salvation process found in Ephesians 1:12-13?


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[guevaraj]

I can read the highlighted text just fine. I agree 100% with what is says about what Christ has done. However, it says nothing about us repeatedly asking for our sins to be forgiven, as you are indicating.

Brother, I will highlight the "repeatedly asking for our sins to be forgiven" part, for you to see it! What it says is that Jesus accomplishes in heaven what was done in the "copy" here on earth without having "to offer himself again and again", "year after year" as was done in the earthly "copy".

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)​

Can you explain the salvation process found in Ephesians 1:12-13?

The passage says that Jesus, better than the Jews, has brought the Gentiles into His salvation by stripping out the human laws added by the Jews that made them not enter the kingdom of heaven, nor did they allow others to enter by their own laws.

God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God. And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago. The Spirit is God’s guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him. (Ephesians 1:12-14 NLT)​

How the Jews failed to do God's will of bringing Gentiles into His Salvation is expressed best by Jesus in the following passage. The Jews added human laws that made their converts "into twice the child of hell you yourselves are". The Jews did not enter the kingdom of heaven, nor did they allow others to enter by their own laws. They do this through their human laws that enslave people instead of freeing them from sin because they are "blind" guides, as Jesus tells us in the following passage.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, I will highlight the "repeatedly asking for our sins to be forgiven" part, for you to see it!

Why are you ignoring the last part of the passage, which reveals "once for all time"?


For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And he did not enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the high priest here on earth who enters the Most Holy Place year after year with the blood of an animal. If that had been necessary, Christ would have had to die again and again, ever since the world began. But now, once for all time, he has appeared at the end of the age to remove sin by his own death as a sacrifice. (Hebrews 9:24-26 NLT)


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[guevaraj]

Why are you ignoring the last part of the passage, which reveals "once for all time"?

Brother, what you are highlighting is the reason I said that the evidence is in our past, before the death of Jesus. Before Jesus' death, sinners in Judaism needed Jesus' forgiveness for their sins over and over again through animal sacrifices that borrowed credit from Jesus' future death without Jesus needing to die over and over again "since the world began". Remember that the following passage tells us two things: animal sacrifices can "never" take away sin, and sin is taken away by Jesus for "all" time, including the time when animal sacrifices were made. Without Jesus' death, all those animal sacrifices would be worthless because they borrowed credit from Jesus' future death.

Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. (Hebrews 10:11-12 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, what you are highlighting is the reason I said that the evidence is in our past, before the death of Jesus. Before Jesus' death, sinners in Judaism needed Jesus' forgiveness for their sins over and over again through animal sacrifices that borrowed credit from Jesus' future death without Jesus needing to die over and over again "since the world began". Remember that the following passage tells us two things: animal sacrifices can "never" take away sin, and sin is taken away by Jesus for "all" time, including the time when animal sacrifices were made. Without Jesus' death, all those animal sacrifices would be worthless because they borrowed credit from Jesus' future death.

Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand. (Hebrews 10:11-12 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Then why are you claiming you need to go back to Christ to confess your sins over and over again, if they were forgiven at Calvary?


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[guevaraj]

Then why are you claiming you need to go back to Christ to confess your sins over and over again, if they were forgiven at Calvary?

Brother, they were forgiven before the death of Jesus, without Jesus having to "die again and again", "since the world began". Jesus can forgive many times even though He only died once!

On that day offerings of purification will be made for you, and you will be purified in the LORD’s presence from all your sins. (Leviticus 16:30 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[BABerean2]

Brother, they were forgiven before the death of Jesus,

If your sins were forgiven before Jesus died at Calvary, why did Jesus have to die?


Joh 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


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