HUBIE said:
Bill,
The only thing I can base it on is Historical writings. There is no evidence (Biblical or otherwise) that Paul new of any world extending beyond the mediterranean. Copernicus was the first to postulate a round world existing somewhere outside of the center of the universe.
It's obvious to me that Jesus knew the whole of what he was referring to. I've only postulated that he inferred the whole of the world as we know it, vice the limited grasp of how big the earth actually was in the first century. To add to my argument, Paul and the other Apostles believed Jesus was coming back in their lifetimes. I think that bolsters the position that the first century Christians had a very limited view of how big the earth actually was.
The only 1st century historical text that I know of that goes beyond the mediterranean with geographical references are the writings of Josephus and his world seems to extend from Modern Lybia and Portugal to the west to possibly the Tibetan region to the east. And even the areas he describes could be much smaller than that or significantly bigger, however they can't possibly extend beyond modern day North Africa, Eastern Asia and the Southern Euorpean Coast.
Well, that's my opinion. What is yours?
Copernicus was a product of the dark ages emerging in his own limited 'universe'. To claim that Copernicus' writings were the sum total of wisdom and experience and knowledge of the world being round is like saying no one believed in one God until Moses!
Eratosthenes:
http://spaceinfo.jaxa.jp/note/shikumi/e/shi07_e.html
"
The Egyptian Eratosthenes calculated that the Earth's radius is approximately 6,300 kilometers
Eratosthenes, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt in the 3rd century BC, calculated the radius of the Earth. In a papyrus book he noted that, "At Syene (in the present-day Aswan region), at noon on June 21st, a vertically standing pole does not cast a shadow." Concurrent with this experiment, he studied the shadow of a pole standing at Alexandria. This pole did cast a shadow. From this he postulated that "the Earth is round and its surface is curved." By measuring the lengths of their shadows, he determined that if the poles could be extended to the center of the Earth, they would intersect at an angle of 7 degrees (one-fiftieth of the Earth's total circumference of 360 degrees). He multiplied the 800-kilometer distance from Alexandria to Syene by 50 to obtain a figure for the circumference of the Earth: 40,000 kilometers. He was also able to calculate a figure for the radius of the Earth: 6,300 kilometers. Even using today's methods of calculation his figures are only off by a matter of a few percent, so he achieved a startling degree of accuracy for those times."
But Eratosthenes came after the ships of Tarshish were no longer the great merchants crossing the oceans as they had in their prime, trading between continents -and there is strong evidence that 'Chittim' is the western lands that were called the 'western continents', by maps drawn up in the first century showing the route to the western continents -the Americas.
Just because Paul didn't come to the western continents or speak of them does not mean that no one did, after all, America had great civilizations already that had peaked and broken apart by the time Jesus came to earth, and Nebuchadnezzar had ruled them and had sent his proclamation to all nations that YHWH was God -Daniel 4; and just because Paul did not speak of the western lands does not mean that no one traveled to them in his day -in fact, if you'll do a bit of research you'll find that at the time the vandals invaded north Africa in 450 AD, passage to the western continents was secured by Christians, who returned and left a document, written in stone, of the trip to the western continent and the return, to North Africa -I forgot which area exactly, but the document is in the book
Saga america.
-and Nebuchadnezzar did in fact rule the American continents, according to the Word of God -for men, beasts, and fowl dwelt in the western continents when Nebuchadnezzar ruled the entire world.
Maps abound, writings abound, the Gospel came -and went, around the world and will again and again -until the end.
Better read
Saga America and other such historically documented books, to see proofs of the travels of merchants from across the oceans to trade -and colonize the Americas.
And Cocaine has been found in Egyptian mummies -Cocaine is a south American product.
2Ch 9:21 For the king's ships went to
Tarshish with the servants of Huram: every three years once came the ships of
Tarshish bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.
Isa 23:1 The burden of Tyre. Howl, ye ships of
Tarshish; for it is laid waste, so that there is no house, no entering in: from the land of 'Chittim' (western lands -not Cypress!) it is revealed to them.
Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, [to]
Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, [to] Tubal, and Javan, [to] the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
Eze 27:12 Tarshish [was] thy merchant by reason of the multitude of all [kind of] riches; with silver, iron, tin, and lead, they traded in thy fairs.
Eze 27:25 The ships of
Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished, and made very glorious in the midst of the seas.
Jesus dealt with the nation of Israel, only, and sent Paul to the gentiles -although Timothy also went to India, it is said, and a 'Thomas' came and preached the Gospel centuries ago to a certain tribe in Peru -I think it was, who remembered it and were converted when modern missionaries came and made contact with them, because it was what they remembered, though their version of it was corrupted.
Bruchko's entire 'tribe' (that had no 'modern' contact with outsiders before Bruchko went to live among them), in Brazil (I think it was Brazil), was converted as they also were not strangers to the message of the Gospel -after Bruchko had a breakthrough in being able to share the Gospel after living among them for over a decade, last century. He still lives among them unless he has died.
Jhn 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles, and those Gentiles that He won were witnesses to other Gentiles and the Gospel went around the world, and continues to go around the world.
And I posted a link earlier that does indeed show the BC Greeks speaking of the 'round globe' and coinage that depicted it -just because I have never gone to the moon, I don't claim no one has.
If it isn't in my 'universal experience' I am not going to deny that it isn't in others' and in this instance, the Word does declare that the Gospel went round the world -in the first century.
