Has the Age of the Gentiles come to an end?

[shilohsfoal]

All I've brought up is the issue created by the belief that the throne promised is an earthly throne and how that comes into conflict with those two passages. It's not possible for all that to be true. The only solution is that the throne is spiritual.....not a literal throne in Jerusalem or else the prophecies would be in error.

David never had a throne in heaven and never ruled Israel from heaven. God's throne is in heaven.

1 Kings 2:11 The length of David's reign over Israel was forty years--seven years in Hebron and thirty-three years in Jerusalem.
The throne of David was in Jerusalem.

Luke 1:31 Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus.
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David,
Luke 1:33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!"

Well, it doesn't say when he will be given the throne of David.The apostles seem to expect Jesus will restore the kingdom to Israel. They don't ask anything about the heavens.
Acts 1:6 So when they came together, they asked Him, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"
Acts 1:7 Jesus replied, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

 

[solid_core]

Did I check if the last day is here yet?
If the last day had arrived Jesus would be here.

As for David. Peter said David was still buried. I have no reason to believe Peter lied about it.

But Peter lived 2,000 years ago. You said that David is in grave in present. How do you know that?

How do you even know that Peter himself is in his grave?

 

[shilohsfoal]

But Peter lived 2,000 years ago. You said that David is in grave in present. How do you know that?

How do you even know that Peter himself is in his grave?

Because of the promise Jesus made about the resurrection.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."


I don't believe Jesus can lie.
Why would you believe Jesus would lie about the resurrection?

Peter understood the resurrection had not taken place and he knew when it would. Jesus told him.
Peter knew about the last day. How many thousands of years till the Lord's day.Peter was not ignorant about the length of a day to the Lord.


2 Peter 3:7 KJV: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 KJV: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 KJV: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[solid_core]

Because of the promise Jesus made about the resurrection.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."


I don't believe Jesus can lie.
Why would you believe Jesus would lie about the resurrection?

Peter understood the resurrection had not taken place and he knew when it would. Jesus told him.
Peter knew about the last day. How many thousands of years till the Lord's day.Peter was not ignorant about the length of a day to the Lord.


2 Peter 3:7 KJV: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 KJV: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 KJV: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I do not understand your point. Why do you think that Peter had to live during the resurrection event? Why cannot it happen after he died?

 

[shilohsfoal]

I do not understand your point. Why do you think that Peter had to live during the resurrection event? Why cannot it happen after he died?

I didn't say the resurrection took place while Peter was alive.

 

[solid_core]

I didn't say the resurrection took place while Peter was alive.

But you argue only with his words like if you expect that if it did not happen during his life, it did not happen at all.

Why does David have to be in his grave today, just because Peter said he was there in Peter's days?

 

[mkgal1]

The throne of David was in Jerusalem.

Luke 1:31 Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus.
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David,
Luke 1:33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!"

Well, it doesn't say when he will be given the throne of David.The apostles seem to expect Jesus will restore the kingdom to Israel. They don't ask anything about the heavens.

Originally....yes, David ruled from earthly Judah......but that can't be the everlasting throne that's referred to (because there's not a throne in earthly Jerusalem that's been occupied continually since David). The promise was:

2 Samuel 7:16 ~ Your house and kingdom will endure before me forever, and your throne will be established forever”​

And the context of this was:

2 Samuel 7:12 ~ "When your [David's] days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.​

That's correct about the apostle's expectation that Jesus was going to restore the kingdom to Israel. That was their hope based on what the prophets and what Jesus had said. Some of us recognize that God fulfilled His promises through Christ (Son of David).....while others are left still waiting. The key is who is New Covenant Israel (the people of God)?

Jeremiah recorded that God said David would never lack a man seated on the throne at the House of Israel.....so, if on earth, it cannot ever be vacant and waiting for Jesus to occupy it.

Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel​

Besides....Jeremiah also wrote this (and Jesus is a descendant of Jeconiah - so this throne has to be somewhere else - not in Judah):

Jeremiah 22:30
Thus says the LORD: “Write this man [Jeconiah] down as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David and ruling again in Judah.”​

 

[shilohsfoal]

But you argue only with his words like if you expect that if it did not happen during his life, it did not happen at all.

Why does David have to be in his grave today, just because Peter said he was there in Peter's days?

Jesus said the resurrection takes place on the last day. Is Jesus's word not good enough for you?

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
John 6:39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
John 6:40 For it is My Father's will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

 

[shilohsfoal]

Originally....yes, David ruled from earthly Judah......but that can't be the everlasting throne that's referred to (because there's not a throne in earthly Jerusalem that's been occupied continually since David). The promise was:

2 Samuel 7:16 ~ Your house and kingdom will endure before me forever, and your throne will be established forever”​

And the context of this was:

2 Samuel 7:12 ~ "When your [David's] days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.​

That's correct about the apostle's expectation that Jesus was going to restore the kingdom to Israel. That was their hope based on what the prophets and what Jesus had said. Some of us recognize that God fulfilled His promises through Christ (Son of David).....while others are left still waiting. The key is who is New Covenant Israel (the people of God)?

Jeremiah recorded that God said David would never lack a man seated on the throne at the House of Israel.....so, if on earth, it cannot ever be vacant and waiting for Jesus to occupy it.

Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel​

Besides....Jeremiah also wrote this (and Jesus is a descendant of Jeconiah (so this throne has to be somewhere else - not in Judah):

Jeremiah 22:30
Thus says the LORD: “Write this man down as childless, a man who shall not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring shall succeed in sitting on the throne of David and ruling again in Judah.”​

If David's throne is not established in Jerusalem then it's not David's throne.
David's throne is in Jerusalem.
God's thone is in heaven.

Are you trying to say David is God?

 

[mkgal1]

If David's throne is not established in Jerusalem then it's not David's throne.
David's throne is in Jerusalem.
God's thone is in heaven.

Are you trying to say David is God?

No....I'm NOT saying David is God.

We're talking about where the everlasting throne of David is. The basis of the Messianic prophecy was that Messiah (who, I hope we agree, is Jesus) would come from the line of David....a "son of David ". That's Jesus. Agreed?

 

[mkgal1]

If David's throne is not established in Jerusalem then it's not David's throne.

If that's true - that the everlasting throne is in earthly Jerusalem - then give a list of kings seated on this throne from David until now. Keep in mind....God said the throne would never lack a man sitting on the throne.

Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel​

 

[BABerean2]

If David's throne is not established in Jerusalem then it's not David's throne.
David's throne is in Jerusalem.
God's thone is in heaven.

Are you trying to say David is God?

Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship?


Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

.

 

[solid_core]

Jesus said the resurrection takes place on the last day. Is Jesus's word not good enough for you?

The question is "the last day of what"?

The last day of the physical universe? Or the last day of the old Israel/Mosaic economy, before the kingdom of God has come?

 

[mkgal1]

Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship?


Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

.

Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

Exactly! Jesus is pointing out the shift that was happening - in His day - in the switching of covenants (from the Mosaic Covenant to the New Covenant). There was also a switch from the earthly place of worship to the heavenly Jerusalem:

Hebrews 12:22 ~ Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem
​

Abraham & Sarah longed for this heavenly city:

Hebrews 11:8-10, 16 ~ 8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, without knowing where he was going. 9By faith he dwelt in the promised land as a stranger in a foreign country. He lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

16Instead, they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.​

 

[Gup20]

Going back to the OP.

There's a timeline running in the background of the*ancient * Israelite history. Daniel prophesied about 490 years that were to pertain to Daniel's people and his city....then the gates would open wide for all nations (Gentiles). The 490 years ended in 34 AD....when there was a subtle redefining of who Daniel's holy people really were. We can see there was some sort of change between the time the disciples had been told, "Do not go among the Gentiles " (Matthew 10:5) and when Peter had His vision in Acts 10(historians place that four years later... "the times of the Gentiles ").

This occurred at the end of the 490 years....the beginning of the Times of the Gentiles (34 AD). This isn't about a termination point - it's a point of reference:

Acts 10:27-28
As Peter talked with him, he went inside and found many people gathered together. He said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with a foreigner or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.

V.34-47
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree, 40God raised Him up on the third day and caused Him to be seen— 41not by all the people, but by the witnesses God had chosen beforehand, by us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”Acts 19:1-7)

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” ​

The blindness and hardening of Israel continues even now. The Jews, for the most part, see Jesus not merely as NOT their Messiah, but as an evil, demonic person. They actively reject Jesus (for the most part) and in fact it results in total ostracism from your family if you accept Jesus as messiah. But there is an awakening starting to happen these days... this is the purpose behind why I started this thread. According to many prophets I've heard, the second half of this year will begin a great awakening of the Church in America and God will give his glory to people who seek him in power and truth... and we'll see signs and wonders being done by normal, every-day believers on a scale never seen before in the history of the world.... some have prophesied a billion soul harvest over the next decade.

Since Christianity is based entirely on the Abrahamic covenant of Genesis 12-17 and of righteousness by faith, I suggest that this great awakening of the church with the obvious glory of God will provoke the Jews to jealousy. Abraham was a Gentile when God made him righteous for his faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ and when He ratified the covenant of faith with Abraham.

Rom 11:7-12 NASB 7 What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; 8 just as it is written, "GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." 9 And David says, "LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP, AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM. 10 "LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT, AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER." 11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation [has come] to the Gentiles, to make them jealous. 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be!​

Kevin Zadai recently had a five-hour encounter with Jesus in Heaven. (for example of prophecy about the end of the year)

 

[mkgal1]

The blindness and hardening of Israel continues even now

There was blindness *in part* of ancient Israel. This "time of the Gentiles" was a specific point in redemptive history. When John the baptist announced Jesus.....that was the beginning of the final "week" of the prophecy of Daniel. The faithful remnant of Israel (including John the baptist; Mary & Joseph; the apostles; and Jesus's followers) all played a part in ushering in the Gospel - first to the Jews - then, when the timing of God came....to the Gentiles (the world).

 

[mkgal1]

Since Christianity is based entirely on the Abrahamic covenant of Genesis 12-17 and of righteousness by faith, I suggest that this great awakening of the church with the obvious glory of God will provoke the Jews to jealousy.

"Based entirely on the Abrahamic covenant "? What about the covenant God made with Adam and Eve....God's covenant with Noah....His covenant with David?

Personally....i don't believe in dividing up God's one continual story of how He has been redeeming humanity back to Him since the Genesis part of the story.

The Bible is one story....about one group of "the people of God" - Progressive Covenantalism and New Covenant Theology - The Gospel Coalition

 

[shilohsfoal]

No....I'm NOT saying David is God.

We're talking about where the everlasting throne of David is. The basis of the Messianic prophecy was that Messiah (who, I hope we agree, is Jesus) would come from the line of David....a "son of David ". That's Jesus. Agreed?

Yes the everlasting kingdom is supposed to be established on the property promised to the seed of Abraham forever.

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

 

[shilohsfoal]

If that's true - that the everlasting throne is in earthly Jerusalem - then give a list of kings seated on this throne from David until now. Keep in mind....God said the throne would never lack a man sitting on the throne.

Jeremiah 33:17
For this is what the LORD says: David will never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel​

Do you consider Nebuchadnezar to be from the line of David? From my understand he ruled over Israel for quite a while there.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship?


Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship."
Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

.

Because his kingdom has not been established there yet.

After the Lord comes his throne is established at Jerusalem.
Zechariah 14:16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zechariah 14:17 And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, the rain will not fall on them.

That's after the war when the beast attacks Jerusalem and takes it.

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south.

In the book of Revelation, this war is refer to as Armegeddon. It's when Christ comes and fights against the ten horns and defeats them.

Yea, will be going to Jerusalem to keep the feast of tabernacles. Should have a good time. It will e a refreshing visit.