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Has God ever told any tongues-speaking believer that they are speaking gibberish

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Oscarr, Jan 9, 2018.

  1. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I have started this thread in response to a discussion on the Charismatic/Spirit-filled forum which got a little off topic, and I was quite happy to continue the discussion, but I didn't want anyone to get into trouble for debating on a forum when they did not identify themselves as Pentecostal or Charismatic. That is why I started this thread.

    Now, let's see if anyone is prepared to answer my question in the title.
     
  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I'm quite interested to hear if anyone realized they were not being inspired by God to speak what is called "tongues".
     
  3. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    I once had an evil spirit pretending to be the Holy Spirit who tried to get me to speak in false tongues. I recognized it as an evil spirit, because this thing was a serpent rising from my stomach up into my throat and took over my mouth. I stopped it right after it started, so I can't give you any more details.

    I've never spoken in real tongues, but I do know what the Holy Spirit feels like, and it's definitely not like that. :) I do believe I may have thought in tongues once, but after that experience I'm a little taken back. There are too many false experiences out there. But if God wants to, I'll happily speak in real tongues one day.

    Be careful everyone! :)
     
  4. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I appreciate your post and the encouragement to report an inappropriate or nasty post. It is a good reminder to keep our discussions about this controversial topic pleasant and productive.
     
  5. Another Lazarus

    Another Lazarus Old Newbie

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    1 Cor 14:23 Even so, if unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language (in tongue), they will think you are crazy.

    2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men

    2 Thes 2:12 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
     
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    From your description, it certainly sounds to me like a counterfeit! The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, gentleness, etc. If a manifestation does not have those attributes, I would reject it without hesitation. You never know what might jump into you and cause you to need deliverance later. There is the experience of a guy who had a prophecy over him which did not relate to anything, so he put it on the back burner. Then he experienced serious back pain, and had two unsuccessful operations until it was revealed to him that he had received a spirit of divination attached to the false prophecy. As soon as he renounced the prophecy, the back pain disappeared and never came back.

    Usually, a false manifestation such as tongues will happen if the person is pressured into it, or tried to do it in the flesh because he thinks it is the thing to do. There is a set of faith steps to receive a genuine gift from God.
    1. You have to know for sure that the gift is God's will for you. "Do all speak in tongues?" Paul asked, implied that not all people receive that facility.

    2. You need to ask for the gift. "Everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known to God."

    3. You need to accept it by faith. "He who asks, receives." "If we ask for anything according to the will of God (see my point 1), he will receive it."

    Then, you can take the step of faith and speak in a language you never learned, but it usually is not accompanied by any bodily or sensual experience. If one looks for sensual experience, the devil is always there to give them one.

    When people approach the gifts of God in this faith way, then people are not going to be forced into something that may be a counterfeit. The Scripture says, "If a son asks for fish, would a good father give him a snake? If the son asks for bread, would he give him a stone? So if a human father would give his son what he asks for, wouldn't our heavenly Father do the same?" So, if we approach the Lord using the Scriptural steps of faith for asking and receiving, would the Lord allow us to receive a counterfeit. I really don't think so.

    Oh, by the way, if some type of force tries to take over your mouth, lips and tongue, reject it immediately because it is false. Faith is you voluntarily doing something you couldn't do before, on the basis of the steps of faith that you took. We do the speaking, not some spirit forcing us to speak.
     
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  7. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Hmmmm, this actually is in the scripture .. it is said that if there is no interpreter, the individual should continue speaking to themselves and God ... furthermore, if this gibberish were to be translated by the individual so they could share the "deep mysteries" in the common tongue .. the edification benefit would be the same level as when prophecy is used properly.
     
  8. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    For clarification purposes, do you believe in the speaking of Tongues yourself?
    I cannot tell from your response.
     
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Read and study the whole of 1 Corinthians 14. The requirement for an interpreter of tongues is for the church service. God doesn't need an interpreter when a person prays in tongues privately to Him. It is in the private prayer room with God that the deep mysteries of the Spirit are expressed to God through prayer in tongues. By the way, Paul said that if people prayed in tongues out loud in the church service, they would be speaking into the air, but they would be giving thanks well, in spite of no one being able to understand him. Paul never used the word "gibberish" in relation to tongues at any time.

    But you haven't answered my title question.
     
  10. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I used to speak in tongues, and I prayed to interpret as the scripture instructed. I tend to reject the Pentecostal spin on scripture as it does not speak to my situation.

    God didn't say I was speaking "gibberish" but did say I was babbling like an infant, implying there was a more "adult" way of articulating, which I learned later through praying to translate as the scripture instructs.
     
  11. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    Thank you for your response.

    Yes, that was definitely a counterfeit. I've had a lot of counterfeit experiences. I won't go into details, but I've had to cast out hundreds of demons and break a lot of curses. I was practicing witchcraft as a teenager and I was like the man with Legion before I was saved. It's as you say, if it doesn't show the fruits of the Spirit, it's not of God. If the body starts shaking and jerking, that's definitely not the Holy Spirit, nor if it feels aggressive in any way. Same with prophecy. Sometimes, I'd get this intense snake-like stare, and it would feel really good and like "light" and this demon would try and get me to speak something as if from God. I'd ignore it and attack it, because that's what I was like as a witch. But I've seen it in other people. Even on here, I can almost feel it in some comments.

    That's interesting that you say we have to ask for gifts. I have the gift of discerning of spirits, but I didn't ask for it. God just revealed it to me with time until I understood it. I've asked for more of it though, and I have received it, and training and Biblical revelation to understand it. But my situation may be different from most.

    That one time where I think I prayed mentally in tongues, I did ask for it I think. I think I'll ask again, because it seems like a wonderful experience.
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I do but within the context of Pentecost. I believe when Paul writes of "unknown tongues" he is speaking of "foreign languages" not a angelic or spiritual sounding language.
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes. I received the gift of tongues three weeks after my conversion in the Assembly of God church. I was 19 at the time and now I am 70. I have enjoyed using the facility, and have seen some amazing things happen in my life as the result of my regular fellowship with God involving my use of tongues. When I left the Pentecostal movement in 1978, one of the things I couldn't was to stop praying in tongues. It was so much of a foundation in my prayer life that I didn't want to stop. This showed me that tongues was not just a Pentecostal phenomenon but it is a facility given by the same Spirit who is involved in every church. That's what Paul says, "We all drink of the one Spirit", so there is not one particular Pentecostal Spirit and another [whatever denomination you choose] Spirit. It is all the one Spirit and tongues is a component of that Spirit.

    When I went through a period of doubt about my gift, the Lord went to great lengths to show me that what I speaking was genuine and that He understands and enjoys it.
     
  14. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    I am going to be completely honest with you all. I was raised in a denomination that believed the heresy that speaking in tongues was actually demonic, and I believed them, not the Word of God. I was even told that there were instances where someone understood the tongues as they knew that language and they understood what was being said as blasphemy against God. But around 1972 through studying the scriptures to answer a debate I was having with a Pentecostal girl through the mail, the Spirit of God revealed the truth; that none of the gifts of the Spirit had ceased yet; that they would be in the Church to strengthen it for as long as the Church was on the earth. That was the first hurdle - believing the Word of God over faulty human reasoning, and stop the arrogance of questioning God why He would create such a peculiar gift as speaking in tongues that no one could understand but God.

    So for years I sought the baptism of the Holy Spirit, trying to have faith that I had received it, and then "tried" to speak in tongues. Basically, I just opened my mouth and cautiously made sounds. It was very hesitant, and stilted. And now, looking back, it was just gibberish. It wasn't bone fide speaking in tongues of the 1st century. But then on February 9, 1977 at 8:00 pm at a Wednesday night service, I repented. I mean truly repented. And within a few minutes I was officially baptized in the Holy Spirit.

    The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is literal, not just by faith as some believe, but by knowledge. It is like the consummation of a marriage. You experience it. You know it. You're not just married on paper; you now have become one. And from then on when I spoke in tongues it was no longer gibberish, but the actual gift of the Spirit. It just flowed. You see, you must actually have the Holy Spirit to be able to speak in tongues. And you must repent of your sins in order to have the Baptism. That was the key I didn't realize before.

    So the answer to the OP question is yes. There are people in every denomination that are not actually Christians and saved. And that goes for Pentecostal and Charismatic churches as well. There are many still in the process of being drawn by the Holy Spirit, but until they actually repent of their sin, they are still just going through the motions of talking the talk, but never walking the walk. So in Pentecostal churches where tongues are expected, there are many that are only copying what they are hearing. But the good thing is they are not closed minded. They are like I was before I repented. I was seeking everything God had for me. That is half the battle. God will bring you the rest of the way to reality.

    And, by the way, those that hear blasphemy being spoken, are actually experiencing the counterfeit gift of interpretation of tongues. The tongues were from God, the interpretation of blasphemy was what was from Satan. So don't let yourself be deceived and closed off by that trick of the devil. Nor by the unscriptural reasonings of faithless denominations.
     
  15. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    The key verse that every theory must pass is 1 Corinthians 14:2. It proves that the understanding on the Day of Pentecost was supernatural, not natural. So your belief of "foreign languages" I presume that are understood naturally, doesn't pass the test.
     
  16. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Just how does that happen?
     
  17. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I was still pretty young when I started speaking in tongues and didn't really know what it was other than a "private prayer language" . At times my immaturity showed and I'd speak in tongues instead of swearing ... but every so often someone knew what was being said in the other language, and it was actually worse than what I was thinking .. so I stopped doing that. A gift is like that, it can be used spiritually or amuse the flesh, it's spiritual applications over the years have saved my life a number of times especially in spiritual warfare situations.

    Has God told me I spoke in gibberish? no. But parallels to a child like state that I could mature from definitely were part of what I understood from the Spiritual applications.
     
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Chewbacca kree! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    On Pentecost it was supernatural and everyone understood what was said. What Paul writes about is simply speaking in a tongue/language that is unknown to the hearer. That is not supernatural, at least most of the time.

    1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue/foreign language speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

    So obviously if you speak in English to a group of ppl that can't understand you, you are speaking only to God because one else understands you.

    The antiquated English in the KJV makes it seem like some new special holy language is being spoken but that is a misunderstanding.
     
  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I can understand that, because during my time with the Pentecostal church I was going to, there were many who spoke the "ba ba ba ba" type of tongues with not much else. Also they spoke with little "direction" and tried to work up some emotional feeling with it. Then we got a speaker who said that we needed to speak from our hearts when we prayed in tongues. He termed it "speaking from your belly". What he meant was to pray to God with expression. When I took that advise and applied my mind to what to pray for, and then expressed that in tongues to the Lord, I found the language became a lot deeper and richer and found that different languages happened for different types of prayer - like intercession had a language, praise had another language, and just walking along chatting with God had another language. Through that, praying in tongues became a blessing and an adventure with God.

    Of course, when we are in the presence of the Lord in glory, we won't need tongues to express ourselves, so it will vanish away.

    One funny episode that happened when I was encouraging folks to receive the gift (ie: those who asked for my help), I took them through the steps of faith and then said to think of someone who needs real prayer and then speak "from their belly". One guy started speaking like a Japanese sumo wrestler having constipation! It was an amazing language, but after a little while he complained of a sore stomach. It then occurred to me that he was literally speaking from his belly and was straining his abdominal muscles. I had to stop him and tell him that I mean that he should speak from his heart!
     
  20. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I can explain it this way.

    There are two different categories of Tongues.
    1) Tongues of men.
    2) Tongues of Angels.

    1) Whenever a Believer, with the "GIFT" of speaking in Tongues, (as was demonstrated on the day of Pentecost), speaks in the Church, he is speaking in the Tongues of men, (Known Languages).

    This is done for the Edification of the Church, through an Interpreter, or as an evidence to the Non-Believer present at the time.

    2) Whenever a Believer who does not necessarily have the GIFT of speaking in Tongues, is in the privacy of his own Prayer Closet, he is speaking only to God, he is speaking in the Tongues of Angels.

    He speaks unto God,where the Holy Spirit is Praying for his Edification.

    Personally I do not have the "GIFT" of speaking in the Tongues of men, I have never been prompted to speak in the Church. but I do Pray in the Spirit every night.

    I take it on Faith, that what is being Prayed is for my Edification by the Holy Spirit.

    It's like having God Pray for me those things He needs to hear before He is able to move in my life, these are things I cannot pray for myself because they are things which I am unaware of, things in my spirit, things that need to change.
     
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