Has anyone seen the devil?

[Xpycoctomos]

Moderators....Not to disparage any of the posters on this thread, as I know demons are real, and manifest, but, I think this thread is probably a very unwise, and possibly unsafe one to leave up. When we concern ourselves too much with things like this, we are, for the moment, focussing on the power of the evil one. This is a very unwise thing to do, as it may provide an opening for problems, if you follow. Every time we get chills, and say wow, scary...or if we mock the post, thus denying the possibility of demonic influence, we are at risk.

Can we please delete the thread?

I agree completely. No disrespect meant to the OP or any of the participants.

 

[repentant]

Do you people fear the evil one that much?

Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. For you are with me, you rod and your staff the comfort me. You prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemy's. You annoint my head with oil, my cup overflows. Surely goodness and love shall follow me all the day's of my life, and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.

It's up to you, delete if you want. I thought it might be good to share story's so that we know what we are up against, and know that the power of Christ can save us.

 

[Theophorus]

I have heard that bad dreams are sometimes a warnning from God. Good visions are to be even more disconcerting. That is when a person is more subject to prelest.

I had an experience with a demon when I was very young. Sylva mind control, a version of TM, was being practiced in the house at the time, and the phenomena stopped whenthe "meditation" stopped.

I have had a couple of things since then, and so has my wife.

 

[Annoula]

i am interested in this thread. i wouldn't like to see it closed.

i think we should try to "understand" the evil. that doesn't mean we emphasise on the evil, but only try to understand its properties so that we better identify it and fight it with the grace of God.

i believe that we first aqcuire theoretical knowldege about something and then we are able to use it or deal with it in some ways.

i know it can be hard for some people, but may i say, that if one is afraid they should try to avoid such discussions.

 

[VickiY]

If one wants to understand evil, and how to deal with it, one reads the Fathers, not an internet forum.

I do not fear evil, but I refuse to invite it in by dwelling on it. You might say that you are balanced enough not to do so, but this is the internet. It is accessible to everyone, even people not listed as posters here, and we have no way of determining their spiritual strength, do we?

As to knowing how to cope with manifestations of the evil one, we know these answers already: Prayer, and immediately referring this matter to one's spiritual father, and following his advice in obedience.

 

[Annoula]

If one wants to understand evil, and how to deal with it, one reads the Fathers, not an internet forum.

I do not fear evil, but I refuse to invite it in by dwelling on it. You might say that you are balanced enough not to do so, but this is the internet. It is accessible to everyone, even people not listed as posters here, and we have no way of determining their spiritual strength, do we?

As to knowing how to cope with manifestations of the evil one, we know these answers already: Prayer, and immediately referring this matter to one's spiritual father, and following his advice in obedience.

i understand what you are saying Vicki, and it is true.
it's just that some people may want to exchange their viewpoints or personal experience. i mean... i am one of them...

if discussions on this topic are held we certainly need to emphasise what our faith advices us to do.

 

[Kapusta]

If one wants to understand evil, and how to deal with it, one reads the Fathers, not an internet forum.

I do not fear evil, but I refuse to invite it in by dwelling on it. You might say that you are balanced enough not to do so, but this is the internet. It is accessible to everyone, even people not listed as posters here, and we have no way of determining their spiritual strength, do we?

As to knowing how to cope with manifestations of the evil one, we know these answers already: Prayer, and immediately referring this matter to one's spiritual father, and following his advice in obedience.

I am in FULL agreement with Vicki's comments. There is grave spiritual danger in reducing the experience with satan to mere stories and glib commentaries. Talking about specific "encounters" with demons distracts us from a broader vigilance: when we dwell on "encountering" satan in a physical and tangible sense, we lose sight of how our enemies permeate the world we live in, and thus we are less vigilant and more susceptible to the subtle methods the evil one uses to distract us from our goal, which is Theosis.

As Orthodox Christians, we are NOT spiritual "free-agents." Rather, we seek the spiritual direction from our Spiritual Fathers and Mothers, and the wisdom of patristic teachers. Any matter of grave spiritual concern must be vetted through the Church and Her representatives, or we risk falling into the sin of pride. Similarly, we too fall into the sin of pride by posting here on the internet, usually without the prior knowledge or consultaion with our Spiritual Fathers.

Remember to live in the world, and not be of the world. We are mere sojourners here...we must forever focus on God and His Will, and on our Heavenly home. We do not fear the evil one, because he has been defeated, but we continue to be vigilant and aware that we are susceptible to his wiles. This way, we reinforce and steady our defences, and stiffen our resolve to follow Christ. We believe in satan, we are vigilant in both discerning his presence and influence, we seek to discern the Will of God, and we seek to continue our path to Theosis by following God's Will. These are very serious matters, and we must approach them with due gravity.

 

[choirfiend]

If one wants to understand evil, and how to deal with it, one reads the Fathers, not an internet forum.

I do not fear evil, but I refuse to invite it in by dwelling on it. You might say that you are balanced enough not to do so, but this is the internet. It is accessible to everyone, even people not listed as posters here, and we have no way of determining their spiritual strength, do we?

As to knowing how to cope with manifestations of the evil one, we know these answers already: Prayer, and immediately referring this matter to one's spiritual father, and following his advice in obedience.

Hear hear! Focus one's self on God, not the devil.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

i understand what you are saying Vicki, and it is true.
it's just that some people may want to exchange their viewpoints or personal experience. i mean... i am one of them...

And I won't judge you for that. Exchange them in provate. As vicki pointed out, this is accessible to everyone. and for some it can quickly turn into a who has the coolest story thread.. and that would be horrible. I am not talking aobut you.

My request is for the thread to be deleted. PM's are available for those who wish to share.

John

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I am in FULL agreement with Vicki's comments. There is grave spiritual danger in reducing the experience with satan to mere stories and glib commentaries. Talking about specific "encounters" with demons distracts us from a broader vigilance: when we dwell on "encountering" satan in a physical and tangible sense, we lose sight of how our enemies permeate the world we live in, and thus we are less vigilant and more susceptible to the subtle methods the evil one uses to distract us from our goal, which is Theosis.

As Orthodox Christians, we are NOT spiritual "free-agents." Rather, we seek the spiritual direction from our Spiritual Fathers and Mothers, and the wisdom of patristic teachers. Any matter of grave spiritual concern must be vetted through the Church and Her representatives, or we risk falling into the sin of pride. Similarly, we too fall into the sin of pride by posting here on the internet, usually without the prior knowledge or consultaion with our Spiritual Fathers.

Remember to live in the world, and not be of the world. We are mere sojourners here...we must forever focus on God and His Will, and on our Heavenly home. We do not fear the evil one, because he has been defeated, but we continue to be vigilant and aware that we are susceptible to his wiles. This way, we reinforce and steady our defences, and stiffen our resolve to follow Christ. We believe in satan, we are vigilant in both discerning his presence and influence, we seek to discern the Will of God, and we seek to continue our path to Theosis by following God's Will. These are very serious matters, and we must approach them with due gravity.

Thank you.

 

[Kapusta]

Thank you.

Forgive me, Xpycoctomos and others, my strident tone. My interest is simply that this thread be deleted. Unfortunately, my posting became a prideful diatribe. I can assure you that anything I post bears no intrinsic value unless pleasing to the Lord, whom I will leave to judge my sinful behaviour. Please regard my postings, then, for what they truly are: an expression of my own self-centred and prideful opinions, and not the teachings or guidance of anyone with particular spiritual stature or insight. As a matter of fact, the converse is most likely true.

Please forgive me, now and in the future, if what I post is spiritually harmful to you, whomever you may be.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Kapusta... you want me to forgive you? For what? i was agreeing with you. i personally thought your post was good and made excellent points. i agree that this post should be deleted. But, I suppose it will just fall into disuse, which is the next best thing (IMO).

But my point for this post is just to say, if you meant to ask ME for forgiveness, I have nothign to forgive you for. Only to thank you for what I thought was a ncie post. (I believe I "repped" you - thatis, gave you reputation)

God bless and welcome to TAW

john

 

[Servus Iesu]

I'd like to share an excerpt from an interview a magazine had with Fr. Gabriel Amorth which I think is important:

30 Days: Has the devil ever harmed you personally?
Fr. Amorth: When Cardinal Poletti asked me to take on this role of exorcist, I recommended myself to the Virgin: "Envelop me in Thy mantle and I will be in total security." The demon has often threatened me, but he has never harmed me.

30 Days: Don't you ever feel afraid of the demon?

Fr. Amorth: Me, for that animal? It is he who should be afraid of me; I act in the name of the Lord of the world. But as for him, he is nothing but God's monkey

 

[repentant]

I'd like to share an excerpt from an interview a magazine had with Fr. Gabriel Amorth which I think is important:

30 Days: Has the devil ever harmed you personally?
Fr. Amorth: When Cardinal Poletti asked me to take on this role of exorcist, I recommended myself to the Virgin: "Envelop me in Thy mantle and I will be in total security." The demon has often threatened me, but he has never harmed me.

30 Days: Don't you ever feel afraid of the demon?

Fr. Amorth: Me, for that animal? It is he who should be afraid of me; I act in the name of the Lord of the world. But as for him, he is nothing but God's monkey

Ha!, exactly. I did not mean to start this thread to start controversy. I was just asking if anyone experienced anything like this. I personally see no harm in it being here. Like the quote said, the devil is God's monkey. I do not fear him, and don't think anyone on here should. I am not trying to be prideful in saying I am more powerful than the devil, it's just that I know what to do if I ever encounter him again. He is powerless, he can't even whisper in our ear without God letting him.

Also as far as it keeping you from reaching Theosis, which I can promise would never happen if you live in the world. And I am speaking of being passionless, and such. If you read about the desert father's and other ascetic monks who have reached Theosis, they always talk about the devil, and being prepared to face him. So saying a story would not prevent you from ascenting. But if everyone thinks this thread is some quija board portal for satan to enter your life, then delete it if you want. But I have news....he's already in it.

 

[beatdown]

I don't know that we should disdain the power of the Satan too much...

"Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world."

1 Peter 5:8-9

 

[Happy Orthodox]

I personally think that the purpose of Satan when he sends us the images is not to scare us. Yes, that scares us often, but then we say the Jesus Prayer, and everything is fine. What Satan wants is to shift our focus on things external, such as protection from demons, from focus on the internal, such as protection from sinful intentions of the heart. That is his primary goal, and he uses all kinds of methods trying to distract us from fighting him in our own souls. And so when he distracts us from the inner warfare, a much, much more important battle, he can take over more easily. That is why his appearances are all seem to have no sense, or be totally wierd or wild as to get as much attention as possible. And actually telling each other stories about those vivid and scary things helps him in that hundredfold, because he not only manages to distract one person, but all others that s/he talks to. This is my not-so-humble opinion. Forgive me, a spiritual beggar.

 

[Annoula]

friends,

i stopped writing in here, cause i understood what some people were saying.
i would be reading this thread but i will not try to write anything myself.

i would welcome any pm regarding the topic, as i would like to exchange ideas.

 

[Kassiane]

I would just like to say that I think Repentant was fortunate to have had that experience. It set his feet back on the right path, and it revealed something to him of the nature of our adversary.

I do agree that this is a prickly area to entertain discussions in. It is just so hard not to get off track in this area. The devil is such a deceiver, he is a lie and the father of it, or something like that. So by its very nature, this area would be like quicksilver to deal with, and should not be done lightly, it seems.

But I am sure everyone posting on this thread means well, and I did get something very positive out of reading your story, Repentant. A very strong reminder of where our security and protection is and not to stray from it.

Bless you,

Kassiane

 

[The Virginian]

friends,

i stopped writing in here, cause i understood what some people were saying.
i would be reading this thread but i will not try to write anything myself.

i would welcome any pm regarding the topic, as i would like to exchange ideas.

Once when a group of had gathered in the home of another Christian, some of our number sat down to talk to another, whom they deduced as having a problem with sin. There was no manifestationof a demon, only that we could all see that his eyes glazed over, and shown with pure hatred. This man had to be physically held down, so as not to do harm to anyone.

THe Holy Apostle Paul, wrote to Timothy that "...the Lord's bondservant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach patient when wronged, correcting those in opposition if perhaps God may grant them repentance, and they come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will..." Whether ort not we see demons is no guarentee of no demonic activity!

 

[Annoula]

Once when a group of had gathered in the home of another Christian, some of our number sat down to talk to another, whom they deduced as having a problem with sin. There was no manifestationof a demon, only that we could all see that his eyes glazed over, and shown with pure hatred. This man had to be physically held down, so as not to do harm to anyone.

THe Holy Apostle Paul, wrote to Timothy that "...the Lord's bondservant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach patient when wronged, correcting those in opposition if perhaps God may grant them repentance, and they come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will..." Whether ort not we see demons is no guarentee of no demonic activity!

Hello,

you quoted my post, but i don't understand what you want to say.
can you please explain?

thank you.