Harry Potter

[talitha]

GreenMunchkin, I am soooo glad someone brought up one of these subjects...... I was toying last night with the idea of bringing it up in a more general way, and I still might - along with the idea of guarding our consciences (and one another's) and our eye- and ear-gates.......

just haven't thought of a wonderful way of wording it.

I am very very very anti-HP.

(conservative enough for you, Albion?)

ANYthing that smacks of witchcraft, even phony, squeaky-clean "white" witchcraft - is BADBADBAD news in my book.

Did you know that JKR has published a book of "spells" as an accompaniment to the series? When I was teaching middle school, one of my students was seriously trying to cast spells on other students using it. At first blush that may seem merely funny or perhaps pathetic. But I think the devil looks at that kind of thing and says something like, Hmmm, I can use that.....

Think about it.

tal

 

[daniel777]

Did you know that JKR has published a book of "spells" as an accompaniment to the series?

no i didn't. that's just crazy. this makes you wonder if JKR really knows what she's doing. it makes you wonder if the whole thing wasn't orchestrated with the very purpose in mind of drawing people in and keeping them there.

 

[Pogue]

Welcome to the forum! Tell you what's interesting: in another place at CF, people were discussing how they literally felt itchy with the need to get the latest book. Like they could barely sit still and they they had all this nervous energy, and one woman got it and posted at about 1am and it was like she'd gotten a fix of a grug or something. That was peculiar, and raised some questions for me.

(hope I'm not doing anything wrong by posting here- not looking to start a debate, or to get drawn into the general 'Is Harry Potter evi?' debate, just to make a few points Feel free to set my post on fire or something if I'm not supposed to be here )

Would I be right in thinking that this refers to the posts I made in the UK/Ireland forum? (forgive me if I've got this wrong- either way, I think my points are still valid) I'd like to straighten a few things out:

Firstly, I suffer from chronic insomnia. Most nights, I'm still awake at 3am, so it's not at all unusual to see posts from me made at 1am, on a variety of subjects, including Harry Potter. It's not like I stayed up just to post that I'd bought the new book.
Secondly, many of the posts I made in that particular thread were exaggerated for comic effect, which was in keeping with the general tone of the thread. If you read it all, somebody else says that they've 'burst into tears' because they can't get the book, but we can probably safely conclude that he wasn't literally crying.
Finally, I like books in general, not just Harry Potter. If they opened shops at midnight for any other books which I'm fond of, I feel sure that I'd probably queue up for them as well.
So overall, what I'm trying to say is that the books don't have some kind of supernatural hold over me. Yes, I did get a bit excited about them, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that; I grew up reading these books, and was interested to know how the series would end. Feeling excited about the last book brought back a kind of nostalgia, and made me think back on my childhood- the last time I was truly happy. And I don't think that's a bad thing.

Again, sorry if you weren't referring to my post at all- I just didn't want you to get the wrong impression of me. I'm not a mad obsessive. Promise

 

[talitha]

Pogue, what you said just went along with the general HP Fever. I used to work in elementary schools, when the HP series first started, and I saw kids who formerly would not voluntarily read a word proudly carrying around an HP book - and those are big! and talking about what they were reading. It was exciting to see more kids reading, but then I noticed that HP was ALL they would read, some of them! They read it over and over! The devotion to HP is cultic, seriously, and there is a supernatural hold it has over some people (not saying necessarily you) that I'm sure has to be broken in Jesus' name to effect any kind of deliverance with the person in question.....

blessings
tal

 

[Pogue]

Pogue, what you said just went along with the general HP Fever. I used to work in elementary schools, when the HP series first started, and I saw kids who formerly would not voluntarily read a word proudly carrying around an HP book - and those are big! and talking about what they were reading. It was exciting to see more kids reading, but then I noticed that HP was ALL they would read, some of them! They read it over and over! The devotion to HP is cultic, seriously, and there is a supernatural hold it has over some people (not saying necessarily you) that I'm sure has to be broken in Jesus' name to effect any kind of deliverance with the person in question.....

blessings
tal

Well, you might be right. I don't think that does necessarily apply to me, though- I love reading (my mother's a librarian, my father's a publisher- it's in the blood! ) and the Harry Potter books certainly didn't get me into reading- I'd been reading a lot before that. If the Harry Potter books never existed, I'd probably just have read something else. I'm not obsessed, though. Reading is one of my main hobbies, but I do read a huge variety of books.

 

[LivingLifeHisWay]

I think Harry Potter is dangerous and I can't bieleve people are so crazy over it. I watched the first one and won't be watching anymore. My step-daughter had to read it for school! I couldn't do anything about it b/c she lives with her mom who allows her to do everything. Ugh!

I also think Charmed is as well. Dangerous in the sense that it makes being a witch fun and cool...almost sexy. I can see young girls getting drawn into it.

I used to watch Ghost Whisperer but I had to stop because it was way off......everyone goes into the light. Way not so.

Thanks for the link to this forum...I might pop in from time to time. ::

 

[LilLamb219]

The Harry Potter books/movies are not dangerous for me personally and I enjoy good entertainment. The books are well-written with well-thought out characters and storylines. The author did a lot of research and I find a lot of what she has woven into the storylines to be quite impressive.

I can properly distinguish between fiction and truth. I know that Harry Potter and his world is just make-believe. I don't see it as causing me to stray from the truth of Jesus Christ and Him-crucified for our sins.

Now, there might be a lot of weak Christians who cannot handle fantasy and for them, it's probably best that they avoid such literature. It's for them to make that decision though and I don't think anyone should be looked down upon if he/she enjoys reading a make believe book or not.

 

[Melethiel]

I went to see Order of the Phoenix on Saturday.
Obviously, I see nothing wrong with it...it's no different from any other fantasy. The "spells" and "magic" in the book do not resemble real witchcraft at all.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Well, I guess there's one in every group . . . .

I love the HP books! Read the final one through on Saturday. ISTM that if you consider HP evil, you must also consider Lord of the Rings evil. I'll leave out the Narnia series because they are much closer to out-and-out Christian allegory than LOTR, even though the Narnia series also uses many of the same devices. But LOTR and HP have much in common:

neither mention God (although the final HP book does have quotes from the NT);
both have sorcerers - both good and bad - who use magic in various ways;
both have wizards as leaders on the good and evil sides;
both are monumental battles of good vs evil;
each creature must choose which side he will fight for;
themes of redemption and love are very, very important;
both have young boys who are asked to accomplish a seemingly impossible task, involving the potential (and very likely) sacrifice of their own life, and who would not have succeeded without the love and support of friends and elders;
good triumphs over evil, as will one day happen in God's creation;
both are written by Christian authors, with a Christian view of the world.

Mary

 

[Davidnic]

I'm fine with them. I find they have a lot of Christian imagery. In fact, I think in england, there was just a book published about how to use Harry Potter to bring kids to Christ.

There is magic in the world of Harry Potter. But the message is that all the magic does not save you. The love of one that gave their life for you saves you agains tthe dark lord...not magic.

And that theme is repeated over and over.

Now, the books...like anything, can be used improperly. I think that Christians need to grab Harry Potter for the Christian messages in it and not let the neo-pagan community downplay those Christian elements.

I think that mature Christians can read them and that young childern should read them with their parents so the parents can get the Christian parts across. The books can be teaching tools as great as Narnia if we are active with it. Just my thoughs.

I know many neo-pagans (working at a college) and I know a few who have converted to Christianity or turned away from neo-pagan beliefs because of Harry Potter once they are shown the message of Grace and Love and sacrifice.

Really the neo-pagan view is about Karma over Grace. Karma...where all you do is paid back to you. But the Christian view is grace...where though you may not deserve it, God steps in and His freely given love saves you. Grace, when you look at it, is really deep in the message of Harry Potter.

I have had discussions with neo-pagans who claim these books and the message as their own. But the message of Grace and redemption is alien to their theology. So when the powerful message of Christ is given, no matter what the method of delivery, it changes lives.

I have seen neo-pagans turn away from their old beliefs and some trun all the way to Christ. If Christians make a strong effort to preach and push the Christian message in the book, people will be brought to Christ.

Is there danger in them? Yes.
There is danger in everything because people are flawed. But the Lord will guide.

So no matter how much the neo-pagan community wants to claim these books...they are directly opposed to the very heart of their theology. So in the end, if we use them properly, they can lead others to Christ.

And as in all things, that is the source of what makes them worthwhile.

What Harry Potter does is show that love beats magic. Sacrifice for another is the highest goal. Karma is nothing in the face of Grace. And that truth is truth and beats relativism.

Does it promote withcraft? The question then needs to be: "What is Witchcraft?"

Does it use the language...calling people witches calling things spells. Wands and such. Yes. But it uses that surface to underminie the core of those beliefs.

The theology is one of Grace and not karma. One of Love over magic. Truth over relativism.

A neo-pagan who reads Harry Potter and tries to apply those lessons to their neo-pagan faith...finds that the neo-pagan faith is empty of those lessons and that the message is a Christian one.

On a very basic level Harry Potter undermines the neo-pagan world view while using the trappings of that culture to do so. It can be a powerful tool for Christ.

If a Christian and a Neo-pagan discuss the spiritual and theological lessons of Harry Potter (rather than the surface style), the Christian can easily show how Christ is the way.

I have talked with converts from the neo-pagan faith about this and other issues. Personally I have seen them converted because of the messages of this book once they think about how it relates to their faith and shows how empty it is. Once they see that and think about the theology of the book...they can turn to Christ.

Now, will some be lured into witchcraft. Yes. And some will come out of it stronger and back to Christ.

But in the end the books themselves are not the issue, it is that we need a strong Christian voice shouting the Christian message of the books.

Side note. The Author has said:

"I believe in God, not magic." In fact, Rowling initially was afraid that if people were aware of her Christian faith, she would give away too much of what's coming in the series. "If I talk too freely about that," she told a Canadian reporter, "I think the intelligent reader -- whether ten [years old] or sixty -- will be able to guess what is coming in the books." In truth, it's not much harder to find Gospel parallels in the Harry Potter stories than in the Chronicles (of Narnia). (link)

 

[meh]

Harry Potter fan here. When my nephews were young and we'd read them together, I used the opportunity not just to read the story but we'd talk about how magic isn't real and they'd usually end up making some fantastic point about how you can't rely on magic, you need to rely on God. So I never worried about them. It wasn't a stumbling block for them.

I do, however, fully understand and support a parent's right to believe they are harmful and not let their children read them. No cries about censorship or brainwashing or whatever from me. Because I understand the POV they could be or are harmful.

 

[CyberPaladin]

Just something to think about personaly I have doubts about how much of it is over zealous fans and actual conversion to witchcraft as a religion shoot just look a trekkies some of them wear home made klingon costumes to conventions and else wear and take fictional language and you find the same kind of hardcore and very nerdy fans for Star wars, Babylon 5 and Lord of the Rings heck I even heard of one who was so obessed with Dallas Cowboys that he would call them to find out which version of there uniform they were wearing that week so he could wear the right copy.

 

[staveoffzombies]

.

Did you know that JKR has published a book of "spells" as an accompaniment to the series?


tal

No she didn't.

 

[Sothron]

I am an admitted Potter fan. I remember playing AD&D when I was younger and my mother earnestly feeling I was risking my immortal soul because I was roleplaying a "thief" class who loved to "backstab" people from behind for double damage.

Potter is IMO harmless. I understand the feeling that while it by itself may be harmless that it by relation lowers society's tolerance to witchcraft and Wicca. There may be something to that as a causal factor but I do not think it is enough of a factor by itself to warrant censure or approbation as a Christian to read it.

 

[CyberPaladin]

I do, however, fully understand and support a parent's right to believe they are harmful and not let their children read them. No cries about censorship or brainwashing or whatever from me. Because I understand the POV they could be or are harmful.

Meh I agree with you whether something is or isn't harmful we should never fault a parent who errors on the side of caution.

 

[D'Ann]

I'm not really good with these kind of discussions... not good with debate. HUGS

Personally, I think that for those who were involved with Wicca or other kinds of magical beliefs or had loved ones who were and Christ brought them away from that occult or other magical type of occults... I think for them, the HP books/movies as well as The Lord of The Rings Trilogy and other kind of mystical fantasy scifi movies/books can be spiritually stumbling and they should stay away from these types of entertainment.

For me personally, I don't see that these make believe fantasy kind of books are evil. They do not stumble me in my faith. Never have I desired to try and learn more about magic or witchcraft or any other non-Christian craft due to these books or any other magical type of fantasy - scifi kind of books. I also love Star Wars too... Cinderalla, Snow White... etc... Narnia... Santa Clause... As children, it's always good to have a fun way of learning and using one's imagination... as adults, sometimes it is nice to escape this world and enjoy a make believe world...

Anyway... to answer the question... for me personally, no, I don't believe these books/movies to be evil. I believe we see what we want to see... if we want to see them as evil, we'll see all of the things in the books and movies that prove to us that they are evil... but if we look at the books as just books... a story about overcoming struggles and overcoming evil along with many other aspects... it's entertaining and in some ways... some really good lessons.

Anyway... I know many probably won't agree with me and well... please pray for me then. HUGS

 

[D'Ann]

No she didn't.

You are right there. Infact, JK Rowlings has made it very clear that she doesn't want her books anywhere near the wicca books. She has made it very clear that she does not support the occult of Wicca.

 

[CyberPaladin]

What was I heard about the HP series it was loved by both childern and adults, sad broken adults.

 

[D'Ann]

or adults that relate well to children... maybe not broken at all... LOL

 

[Voegelin]

Rod Liddle, writing in the London Sunday Times, comes at Rowling from another angle:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rod_liddle/article2116237.ece