Harry Potter = Witchcraft?

[Qyöt27]

This may be a bit farther back, but here's a response about God wanting us to avoid "fake" sin or however it was worded.
Also remember that God's thinking is more important then ours, so who are we to say something bad of His standards?
1 Thessalonians 5:22 (King James Version)


22Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Let's look at that passage in practically every other English translation:

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New King James Version)
22 Abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (Revised Standard Version)
22 abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New Revised Standard Version)
22 abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New International Version)
22Avoid every kind of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New American Standard Bible)
22abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New Living Translation)
22 Stay away from every kind of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (English Standard Version)
22Abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (Contemporary English Version)
22and don't have anything to do with evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New Century Version)
22 and stay away from everything that is evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (American Standard Version)
22 abstain from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (Darby Translation)
22hold aloof from every form of wickedness.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)*
22 Stay away (A) from every form of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (New International Reader's Version)
22 Stay away from every kind of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (Today's New International Version)
22 reject whatever is harmful.

The point: all of those require that the thing to avoid must actually be known as evil, not simply be at risk of being misconstrued that way.


Judging something or someone based on what merely 'appears' to be evil is totally subjective, and oftentimes flat-out wrong (like for instance, the viewpoint that the color black almost always means evil) - not to mention that ideas of what evil merely looks like changes over time. Unless we want to take this into KJV-Only Movement territory, that's not a sufficient argument. I'm saying this not because of the topic at hand, but because I've seen that verse, quoted only from the KJV since it supports a person's preconceived notions while the other translations don't, used as polemic against things I do take issue with.


*Interestingly, this is cross-referenced to 1 Timothy 4:3, which rails against what many scholars see as Gnosticism, which posed and in some regards still poses a far larger threat to the integrity of Christian faith than witchcraft ever has. Heavy dualism regarding the material world (or by lighter extension in modern times, anything not explicitly Christian from the sharp focus many churches put on dividing things into neat little categories like dualism does) as inherently dirty and anti-God, is one of most egregious sins of Gnostic thought, and why Gnosticism is considered one of the major Classic Heresies. God created one world, not two. The text, of course, refers not to those precepts of Gnosticism but to the ascetic practices (strict celibacy and starvation) some of those groups employed during the Early Church period.

 

[Kol]

Have to agree with Qyot on this one. That verse is infamously taken out of context. But I believe we have each made our point of views clear in this thread. So...salut!

 

[KGirl]

Weither you look at one version or the other, they basically mean the same thing. Though for the sake of argument.. The Bible says that witchcraft is evil, so if the Bible states to avoid every form of evil then that is a form of evil..
The word isn't for twisting and "indevidual interpritation", because that is what Satan does. That is what he did in the garden of eden.

 

[Qyöt27]

The word isn't for twisting and "indevidual interpritation", because that is what Satan does. That is what he did in the garden of eden.

It's impossible to read something without interpreting it. Interpretation is the foundation of understanding anything - it's totally unavoidable. And individual interpretation is practically the very basis of Protestantism. If you want established dogma, that's what Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy provide, although certain cases could be made for any denomination or even singular church that exists. Doctrine doesn't just fall out of heaven, and in Protestant churches, if you don't like one doctrine, you're free to break away and start your own church - and that's precisely because there's no stigma or prohibition on personal interpretation, even if certain ideas will make everyone else in your prior group think you're a loon.

There's a difference between interpretation and 'twisting' a text. Twisting a text assumes you've already made up your mind on the subject and then use whatever strange interpretation and scattered verses you can to defend it, instead of building a solid exegetical basis for your beliefs in the first place. Twisting is what dispensationalists do profusely to justify their end-times beliefs, and that's only one example (of which said viewpoint is considered within the 'norm' in American Evangelical and Fundamentalist churches, although many place it extremely close to being a modern-day heresy, along with Prosperity Gospel).

 

[Kol]

Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part. Evidently, I knew much less about witchcraft and Wicca than I thought. Just a couple of things I learned from uncyclopedia:

Wicca is a pseudo-religion and attention-getting device...mainly practiced by MySpace users between the ages of 13 and 16, though for a select minority of emos and goths, the phase can last well into their late teens, or even into the early 20s, if they have no friends and can still use it as a tool to get attention...wiccans are basically witches that can't do real magic.

Because of centuries of religious propaganda and misinformation, many Christians, and others, associate Wiccans with Satanists. Wiccan's can't seem to shift this mistaken belief when all they really do is hug trees, worship the devil and sacrifice cats and the occasional baby. Wiccans faith is older than Christianity, and some claim to be descended from Druidism, Sumerian faiths, or any other paganistic sect they can google.

...the religion of Wicca is not accepted or tolerated in the United States of America at all, which is why there are more Wiccans here than anywhere else on the whole **** planet. Wicca, having been created in 1954 (on the same day as TV dinners), doesn't have a long history of persecution like other religions. To compensate, Wiccans invented the persecution complex...

I had no idea it went all the way back to the early 50's. Wow.

Wicca - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia

 

[Kol]

Yeah...nevermind that Hebrews 5:11-14 clearly characterizes immature christians as those who can't wield the word of God with ease and who don't spend the time to divide the good from the evil. Nevermind that the line between what is good and evil is ambiguous at the best of times (like the evil spirit which prophecied that Paul was showing the one way to God through Jesus Christ; still an evil spirit, though it told the truth). Most people don't know what "holy" and "dedication" mean. It means you spend the time to know what is right and wrong.

 

[KGirl]

Ok I can agree on the idea that people won't always interpret things the same, however the word should be taken literally and with prayer and leading of the Holy Spirit. When I say literally I mean to be taken seriously and not to be twisted to what we would like it to say. So I don't think we disagree as much as it may have seemed.
Also keep in mind that KJV is still the word of God and it's meaning is just as important as other versions. Though like I said, other versions say practically the same thing and can still apply here.

 

[Kol]

Dividing good from evil is good to do but im not aware of what you are refering to with Paul and an evil spirt that spoke truth.

I rest my case.

 

[SmileAndAHandshake]

I find it shocking this thread required a second page, let alone a 12th.

 

[Kol]

Yes, I just wrote that.

 

[Kol]

I am a full-time student with a wife and kid. I don't always have the time I wish I did.

But the truth is, I've already gone for several pages about Harry Potter and witchcraft. If you won't read that or take the time to look at the passage mentioned, what would make me think you'd take the time to read a long reply? Moreover, you seem to have your mind already set: not only is Harry Potter not witchcraft, anyone who suggests otherwise is trying to control you.

I'm not here to make you feel guilty or control you; that's the duty and blessing of the Holy Spirit. I feel I've made my point clear, and even if I'm doctrinally wrong, I solidly believe I have a scriptural basis for my point of view. Other posters who disagree with me -though they disagree with me- have done the same thing. Neither point of view is "overly dramatic." Abiding by, and trying to discern His will never is! You say that I'm cherry-picking parts of the Law. You say that I'm taking scripture out of context...but you aren't even using scripture to contradict me. If you are going to question my application of scripture, do so by using scripture, not by your own words. The correction of the misuse of scripture is the correct use of scripture, not the absence of it. (1Tim 1:7) It's never asking too much to finely divide the Law. Scripture commands it (Hebrews and Timothy come to mind right now.)

I don't believe anyone here has claimed you aren't a "true christian." Again, it's not my place to say that; Christ himself will decide.

Start quoting the text or else stop trying to sound as if you have a Biblical basis for what you are espousing.

 

[Kol]

If you believe your tag "He is worthy to be praised" then seek the answer from Him and His Word and don't let the opinion of others, either on or outside this forum influence you. Here are a few Scriptures to start, please seek out others on your own and allow His Holy Spirit to guide you.

2Chronicles 33:1-6
Galatians 5:19-24.

2 Chronicles reads:

Manasseh was twelve years old when he became king of Judah, and he ruled fifty-five years from Jerusalem. Manasseh disobeyed the Lord by following the disgusting customs of the nations that the Lord had forced out of Israel.

He rebuilt the local shrines that his father Hezekiah had torn down. He built alters for the god Baal and set up sacred poles for worshipping the goddess Asherah, and he faithfully worshipped the stars in the sky.

In the temple, where only the Lord was supposed to be worshipped, Manasseh built alters for pagan gods and for the stars. He placed these alters in both courtyards of the temple and even set up a stone image of a foreign god.

Manasseh practiced magic and witchcraft; he asked fortunetellers for advice and sacrificed his own sons in the Hinnom Valley. He did many other sinful things, and made the Lord very angry.

While in Galatians, Paul says:

People's desires make them give in to immoral ways, filthy thoughts, and shameful deeds. They worship idols, practice witchcraft, hate others, and are hard to get along with. People become jealous, angry, and selfish. They not only argue and cause trouble, but they are envious. They get drunk, carry on at wild parties, and do other evil things as well. I told you before, and I am telling you again: No one who does these things will share in the blessings of God's kingdom.

Along with the Deuteronomy and Leviticus passages which clearly outlaw witchcraft, there is no debate that magic and witchcraft are evil. Was witchcraft or magic even possible in the OT days? Doesn't matter; it doesn't matter if it's as illusionary today as it was in the past. The command is not "don't practice it if it's real," the command is "don't practice it."

A fictionalized narrative of murder is still a narrative about murder. The same goes for witchcraft. Fake or real, the issue is the internal effect it has on someone.

Reread the posts in this thread. There's no way in my mind that Harry Potter isn't witchcraft.

 

[makeupgirl]

Hi guys,
I've been reading Harry Potter a lot, and I am wondering, is this classified as Witchcraft, which as a result, is a sin and is demonic?

Yes, but if that's what you want to read. Because reading and watching things can stick with your mind, we have to be careful in what we feed our spirit. I personally couldn't get down with Harry Potter saved or not saved so I wasn't interested from the get go, same with this twlight thing. Just remember one thing and I have to remember this when I watch Charmed that we may be feeding our flesh when we watch or read stuff like this. Pray about it, ask God about it and how you feel, also ask him to convict your heart if it is indeed against him. He will let you know. Be bless and be careful.