Harmless Porn

[Oneofthediaspora]

Oneofthedispora...I can say the same things about the next time you go to McDonolds. Do you think as a young child anyone grows up dreaming of one day being the guy who makes french fries at McDonolds??? I doubt it..lol Or the next time your at department store...notice the guys who clean the floor..do you thing that was their dream as young boy/girl...to one day clean the toliets at Macy's? I bet they do not wake up super motivated to go out and clean that toliet..lol

I know you most likely feel that there is some difference between being a porn star and a janitor...but the difference is only in the persons perceptions of that work.

Max

Did you read my post?

Having sex that you don't want. You don't see something wrong with that?

Paying someone to have sex that they don't want, but will have because they need/want the money while you watch and touch. Not perhaps a little de-humanising?

 

[max1120]

oneofthedispora...You do not see someone working at McDonolds cleaning filthy toliets and having to endure the humilation of that sort of work is being used? Most people work for survival. I see no difference between one sort of work one would rather not do but for money and another. Work for survival is just that work for survival. You are adding in your own "moral" views about the nature of the work. I am not judging you I am just saying you seem to not be able to seperate the two aspects of the work, the "moral" and the "ethical". Is is ethical to caues people to work in jobs they do not want or prehaps find "degrading" simply for money to survive is one question? The "morality" of working in porn for money is a moral question that requires you to make subjective comparisons.

Max

 

[PassionFruit]

Nothing wrong with a good pegging every now and then.

lol!

 

[The Nihilist]

I'm not talking about non-consensual work though am I ?

I'm talking about non-consensual sex.

I take it you see the difference?

Money messes up the consent dynamic. Without full consent there is something wrong with sex.
Paying people to have sex they would rather not have while you watch and w4nk into a tissue, as well as being a trifle sad, is also being complicit in the degradation of the person(s) having sex whilst not really wanting to.

Why does money throw off the consent dynamic for sex, but not for work?

 

[GhostSlug]

If porn was only pictures of people having consenual sex, there might be a case to be made for it, and I would classify it as erotica.

But porn is not just pictures of people having consenual sex.

It's pictures of women forced to have sex or kinds of sex they do not want. It's pictures of women who are ready and eager for sex with strangers at the drop of the hat. It's picture's of men [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] into women's faces. Porn is pictures of women being treated as animals - tied to the bumper of a car llike a deer, being saddled like a horse, being whipped and being ground up into a meat grinder. It's photos of children being treated in these same ways.

Porn distorts sex.

Quick question, have you ever watched a movie where two people are fighting? It's acting!!! Most people who do pornography do it willingly. Their reasons for picking it as a career may be different, but most signed the contract. People get aroused for very different reasons and if a man [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on a woman's face arouses her, so be it. If people want to watch porn, let them. If they want to watch whatever porn you decribed in your post, let them. To each his own. Child pornography is totally different from consensual adult pornography, hence why it is illegal.

My big thing is why do Christians always tend to focus on "sexual sins"? There are many other big sins, i.e. gluttony and greed, which are just as bad and even more prevalent in the US. From experience, I have walked into several different churches and witnessed some of the fattest people I have ever seen, but not once have I ever heard a preacher say this verse:

Proverbs 23:2-3 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite. Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.

If you are more than 20 pounds overweight due to your excessive gluttonous consumption, then remember to take the plank out of your eye before you take the speck out of your brother's.

If anyone can tell me why Christians are so obsessed with "sexual sins" and for the most part, ignore the other "big" sins, I would love to know.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Why does money throw off the consent dynamic for sex, but not for work?

No, it throws it off for work too. Some working practices are extremely exploitative. Everything that can be done to improve this situation should be done.

Most people, however, see non-consensual sex as being in a very different category. Because of the different psychological baggage that sex carries with it, most people agree that non-consensual sex is extremely damaging to the psychological integrity of the individual ..... Except when it comes to prostituion and porn. Funny that innit? Might have something to do with the billions of dollars that this "industry" makes each year.

Do you see non-consensual sex as a damaging thing?
How is the damage different in porn other than getting paid for it?
Do you think money is a decent recompense for psychological damage?
Are you aware of the statistics for prevelance of PTSD amongst female porn performers who engage in penetrative acts?

 

[chingchang]

Do you see non-consensual sex as a damaging thing?

This is your mistake. IT IS CONSENSUAL SEX!

How is the damage different in porn other than getting paid for it?

Flawed logic. Unless I've missed something in this thread...porn isn't rape.

Do you think money is a decent recompense for psychological damage?

People make bad choices. A lot of women and men in the modern-day porn business enjoy what they do. Goto youTube and watch the interviews with the porn actors/actresses.

Are you aware of the statistics for prevelance of PTSD amongst female porn performers who engage in penetrative acts?

Source please. We would need a link.

Hugs,
CC

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

You want a link? Google PTSD and porn.

In porn and prostitution the consent dynamic is messed up because the people engaging in sex are not motivated by desire but by financial reward. Amongst most humans sex is in a special category wherein coercion of any sort is considered reprehensible. Do you agree?
Let's say you really, really need a couple of grand to keep up on your mortgage. You can't get it elsewhere but someone offers you the money if you suck him off. You can see how that possibly is a different type of choice than sucking him off because you really fancy him?

re the interviews on youtube .... haha ... yeah right, it must be true then eh?
It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to see how an interview on youtube where the performer describes how messed up she is by porn and has herpes etc might be a turn off for her fan boys and so cut off her income source.
There would be some whgo might actually get off on it, but they would be a minority though.

 

[quatona]

In porn and prostitution the consent dynamic is messed up because the people engaging in sex are not motivated by desire but by financial reward. Amongst most humans sex is in a special category wherein coercion of any sort is considered reprehensible. Do you agree?
Let's say you really, really need a couple of grand to keep up on your mortgage. You can't get it elsewhere but someone offers you the money if you suck him off. You can see how that possibly is a different type of choice than sucking him off because you really fancy him?

IOW: it´s a job, and what it has in common with all jobs is that people often do it for the money and not for pleasure.

 

[chingchang]

In porn and prostitution the consent dynamic is messed up because the people engaging in sex are not motivated by desire but by financial reward.

Some yes...some no. I have seen testimonies of porn actresses who confess a love of sex and they figured they might as well get payed for what they love doing.

Amongst most humans sex is in a special category wherein coercion of any sort is considered reprehensible. Do you agree?

No.

Let's say you really, really need a couple of grand to keep up on your mortgage. You can't get it elsewhere but someone offers you the money if you suck him off. You can see how that possibly is a different type of choice than sucking him off because you really fancy him?

No...it is still a choice. I could default on my debt obligation...or do whatever it is that I need to do to keep it. No gun to the head...

re the interviews on youtube .... haha ... yeah right, it must be true then eh?

No. Everyone has a different experience. I'm just saying that there are different experiences in that industry...just like there is in any industry. You can't discount personal testimony.

It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to see how an interview on youtube where the performer describes how messed up she is by porn and has herpes etc might be a turn off for her fan boys and so cut off her income source.

Lots of non-porn premiscuous (sp?) folks have herpes...and they ain't gettin' payed!

CC

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Again, for maybe the fourth time, most human beings place sex in a different category and regard any form of coercion as being something damaging. Most people would not want to have or enjoy having sex with someone who really doesn't want to do it. (Not all people, BTW, some enjoy the power of of being able to make the other person perform on demand).

Edit ... that was for quatona.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

No...it is still a choice. I could default on my debt obligation...or do whatever it is that I need to do to keep it. No gun to the head...

I said it was a different "type" of choice didn't I?
Do you accept that there may be other forms of coercion than having a gun at one's head?

I want to make sure of this next bit, so I feel it necessary to repeat. I suggested that coercion in sex was reprehensible and asked you if you agreed. You said "no".
You think it is OK to coerce someone into having sex?
(If this is not what you are saying then forgive me).
If this is what you are saying then I think think the dissonance in our respective worlviews is sufficiently great to render any further discussion fruitless.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Lots of non-porn premiscuous (sp?) folks have herpes...and they ain't gettin' payed!

Hmmm, because that really was the point that I was making there.

 

[The Nihilist]

No, it throws it off for work too. Some working practices are extremely exploitative. Everything that can be done to improve this situation should be done.

Most people, however, see non-consensual sex as being in a very different category. Because of the different psychological baggage that sex carries with it, most people agree that non-consensual sex is extremely damaging to the psychological integrity of the individual ..... Except when it comes to prostituion and porn. Funny that innit? Might have something to do with the billions of dollars that this "industry" makes each year.

Do you see non-consensual sex as a damaging thing?
How is the damage different in porn other than getting paid for it?
Do you think money is a decent recompense for psychological damage?
Are you aware of the statistics for prevelance of PTSD amongst female porn performers who engage in penetrative acts?

Nonconsensual sex is rape, and nonconsensual work is slavery. If your argument works for sex, then it works for having a job too, which is silly.

 

[andross77]

Who wants to go to heaven anyway if there's no porn...

men love the darkness.

 

[andross77]

And besides, you know you'll go blind and your palms will get hairy, right?

no, you won't go blind and your palms won't get hairy. But people that watch porn will be rejecting the morality of Almighty God and will not be able to stand before Him when He calls them to account.

Make light of it all you want...

 

[andross77]

Wait...where does Jesus say this...or are you saying it for Jesus...

have you ever read the Gospels?

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Nonconsensual sex is rape, and nonconsensual work is slavery. If your argument works for sex, then it works for having a job too, which is silly.

Again, for the fifth time without anyone addressing the point, most human beings place sex in a special category that makes it unpalatable to them to use any form of coercion. Most (not all) think that it is damaging and degrading for a person to have sex that they do not want.
What's your view on that?

 

[The Nihilist]

Again, for the fifth time without anyone addressing the point, most human beings place sex in a special category that makes it unpalatable to them to use any form of coercion. Most (not all) think that it is damaging and degrading for a person to have sex that they do not want.
What's your view on that?

Wait, I'm still confused. Is your position that rape is dramatically worse than slavery in a really special way that goes into a special category? Because I'm not sure I agree with that.

 

[Oneofthediaspora]

Also, I am sure you will agree, there are blurred edges between consent and non-consent. It's not an absolute at all as attested by the varying age of consent in different countries for example.
remove basics such as appetite, desire, love or lust from the equation and replace it with $$$ and you are left with a very messed up consent dynamic indeed.

Still, best not to think about such things eh? One might lose one's hard-on.