hardened heart

[CheshireDragon]

I was told by my baptist in-laws that god will one day harden my heart(if I keep rejecting him) and I will not be able to get saved after that....IF this is true, I have been forcefully rejecting him for about a year and a half by: being a jerk to every religous person I know, slamming my door in the faces of any one who asks, "have you found Jesus?" or whatever god they are pitching and even going to the church with my in-laws and causing problems between other members. I have already suceeded in making one of the deacons leave. YET, I still think about the whole "god and jesus" bit from time to time and everytime I do it makes me angry. I just want to stop thinking about it and I can't. Its like that math whiz thinking about that unsolvable problem. I am sure I will know the day that my heart is hardened, but how can I speed up that day? Then I can simply get on with my life. Of course, the troubling thing is, that if I don't believe in any of it anyway, I will never stop thinking about it because its all in my head...or is it?
Either way any help is appreciated.

 

[Sojourner<><]

Dude, you don't want to have your heart hardened. It sounds like you have some issues with God. Where is all that hostility coming from? If you really didn't want to know Jesus then you wouldn't care, but it bothers you that you don't know the answers to your questions right? So where is all this anger and bitterness coming from?

 

[CheshireDragon]

i think what bothers me most is that i am human. i would rather be an animal and have no soul at all. Therefor after death..thats it, game-over..non-existence. i do not believe in god so i won't go to heaven, i really don't even want to go to heaven, yet according to christianity i will go to hell. i don't want to go there and i do not believe in satan either. i think i can sum it up in one sentence(or I'll try to as best i can): i didn't ask to be here so why am i getting the short end of the stick and cursed to a firey death? Why can't i just NOT EXIST after I die? Can god offer me that? Is there any way to destroy a soul so there is no afterlife? Either way I think it would be a bum deal...yeah, I don't like many christians want to burn in a fire pit but, then again living in peacful bliss for eternity would be very boring to me as well.
I have heard somewhat of a place in between called "limbo" or something...not sure of what it is.
If thats not it and sometimes the case. in general, i am just confused and not sure what i want and this point. i know i don't want to be a slave of some angry higher being. i feel that if i became a christian i would be a slave to the cross. i don't want that. second, i was not around when adam and eve ate that apple. its NOT my fault! Why am i, as all others here, STILL being punished for what two morons did so many thousands of years ago?

i am being sincere in asking these questions. i really do want to know? there is soooo much i want to know i just need to find the time to ask. 10hr day starts tomorrow at 9am...i really need to get to bed. i am a bad manager for staying up WAY past my bedtime.

laters,
-rick

 

[Sojourner<><]

First of all, it doesn't have to be about avoiding eternal damnation. It's really about going home - the place where there are no more tears - the place where we are meant to be.

Sure we may become slaves to righteousness and servants of Jesus, but you have to realize that God is the definition of good. I know their is alot of negative stigma on a monarchy type rule because of the horrible track record of human kings in history, but a king-based system is much, much more effective than communist, socialist, or democratic systems. But only if you have a good king that never changes.

 

[Sketcher]

i think what bothers me most is that i am human. i would rather be an animal and have no soul at all. Therefor after death..thats it, game-over..non-existence. i do not believe in god so i won't go to heaven, i really don't even want to go to heaven, yet according to christianity i will go to hell. i don't want to go there and i do not believe in satan either. i think i can sum it up in one sentence(or I'll try to as best i can): i didn't ask to be here so why am i getting the short end of the stick and cursed to a firey death? Why can't i just NOT EXIST after I die? Can god offer me that? Is there any way to destroy a soul so there is no afterlife? Either way I think it would be a bum deal...yeah, I don't like many christians want to burn in a fire pit but, then again living in peacful bliss for eternity would be very boring to me as well. I have heard somewhat of a place in between called "limbo" or something...not sure of what it is.

I'm afraid there's no option for you to like, then. There's Heaven and there's hell. There is no limbo. And even if the Catholics were right about limbo, you wouldn't be eligible. That's for young children who die only.

i know i don't want to be a slave of some angry higher being. i feel that if i became a christian i would be a slave to the cross. i don't want that. second, i was not around when adam and eve ate that apple. its NOT my fault! Why am i, as all others here, STILL being punished for what two morons did so many thousands of years ago?

First, you won't be a slave to an angry higher being. Christians are in a forgiven state, therefore we do not recieve God's anger. Second, nobody said what Adam and Eve did was your fault or mine. God's got enough dirt on each of us to condemn us both. I accepted Jesus, and became forgiven. I urge you to do the same.

 

[Jinn_Ku]

Let's be honest here, if you were firm in your unbelief, you wouldn't be here asking questions. You know deep down there's something out there, but if you admit it, you'll have to do something about it, and that's just more effort than you're willing to put forth.

What Adam and Eve did is not your fault, but that's not the issue. You've sinned yourself, regardless of what they did. If you've ever told a lie, you're a lier. If you've stolen anything (even things as "little" as a bank pen) you're a thief. If you've hated someone Jesus says you're guilty of murder. The real problem is not what Adam and Eve did thousands of years ago, but what you've done in the quarter decade of your life.

God isn't mean, He's just. Be honest with yourself and you'll see you've broken God's laws, just like the rest of humanity; a guilty sinner, deserving of judgement. Just as a good and honest judge couldn't let a murdering rapist walk free, neither can a just God let us walk free without the sentance being paid. The sentance for breaking God's law is death, in every case, no matter how insignificant we see the offence.

But Jesus paid that sentance for us by His suffering and death. He was the perfect sacrifice that allowed God to say, "The fine has been paid in full. My eternal justice has been satisfied." He stepped up to the Judge and paid our fine for us. It has been said, "We owed a debt we could not pay, He paid a debt He did not owe."

If you trust in Jesus as the only way for your sins to be forgiven, and repent (which means confessing the things you know are wrong, telling Jesus you're honestly sorry for them and turning from them), God says He will give you a new heart with new desires. The things you once loved you'll hate and the things you once hated you will love.

That's why we willingly become servants (or slaves, if you prefer). He did so much for us, devoting our earthly life to telling people about Him is not much of a sacrifice at all. If you had the cure to cancer, wouldn't you tell people? Well, we have the cure to death. And the one who gave it to us told us to share it freely. I don't know you. I'll most likely never meet you. But I want you to have this gift. It's offered to anyone who will humble themselves before the God who created everything and repent.

If you have any questions, ask away. P.M. me if you'd like, or post it. Please consider the offer God has made. The ball's in your court now.

 

[£amb]

i think what bothers me most is that i am human. i would rather be an animal and have no soul at all. Therefor after death..thats it, game-over..non-existence. i do not believe in god so i won't go to heaven, i really don't even want to go to heaven, yet according to christianity i will go to hell. i don't want to go there and i do not believe in satan either. i think i can sum it up in one sentence(or I'll try to as best i can): i didn't ask to be here so why am i getting the short end of the stick and cursed to a firey death? Why can't i just NOT EXIST after I die? Can god offer me that? Is there any way to destroy a soul so there is no afterlife? Either way I think it would be a bum deal...yeah, I don't like many christians want to burn in a fire pit but, then again living in peacful bliss for eternity would be very boring to me as well.
I have heard somewhat of a place in between called "limbo" or something...not sure of what it is.
If thats not it and sometimes the case. in general, i am just confused and not sure what i want and this point. i know i don't want to be a slave of some angry higher being. i feel that if i became a christian i would be a slave to the cross. i don't want that. second, i was not around when adam and eve ate that apple. its NOT my fault! Why am i, as all others here, STILL being punished for what two morons did so many thousands of years ago?

i am being sincere in asking these questions. i really do want to know? there is soooo much i want to know i just need to find the time to ask. 10hr day starts tomorrow at 9am...i really need to get to bed. i am a bad manager for staying up WAY past my bedtime.

laters,
-rick

I don't think I quite understand the question. You want your heart hardened. You don't want to exist. You don't want to go to heaven. You don't believe in Satan. You want God to offer you no existance after death. You are asking for a christian response to your problems? What kind of answer are you expecting? You have already admitted that you you're "a jerk to every religious person you know". What help can we offer or would you want to receieve? Do you want to know about God or is this a rant? Are you willing to listen to believers here to talk about God?

 

[CheshireDragon]

Do you want to know about God or is this a rant? Are you willing to listen to believers here to talk about God?

Yes and it is no rant. i am willing to listen. like most other agnostics or atheists, i don't try to argue back on "your truth."(ehh, your truth, meaning your faith and beliefs) i do willingly listen because i am curious. i have been going to church, obviously, i just don't understand a thing during Sunday mornings.
To sum it up. i am confused as to what i want, really.
So , again, YES i will listen

Be honest with yourself and you'll see you've broken God's laws, just like the rest of humanity; a guilty sinner, deserving of judgement.

i agree fully, i have sinned according to god's law and such. i drink, i smoke pot on occasion and YES i did steal a bank pen a few weeks ago. It was an accident but i still have it and use it.

God says He will give you a new heart with new desires. The things you once loved you'll hate and the things you once hated you will love.

So, i've heard. This is also what i want but i don't want to become something i hate now...hmm, let me rephrase: i would hope to be changed for the better. i know there are better things out there.

If you've hated someone Jesus says you're guilty of murder.

i may not like people but, i don't want to kill them...how does this work?

You know deep down there's something out there, but if you admit it, you'll have to do something about it, and that's just more effort than you're willing to put forth.

maybe...here is my stance: i agree that way back in the day there was a guy named jesus. Was he the son of a god? possibly...So simply i belive in jesus but not sure if he was really the son of a god. what makes me want to belive is doubting thomas...I don't really know the story but i guess jesus healed his broken leg or something and thomas said something like you are the son of god and jesus relplied something like you are blessed but more blessed is he who belives but has not seen me.

First, you won't be a slave to an angry higher being.

but, i feel like god IS angry at me.

I accepted Jesus, and became forgiven. I urge you to do the same.

HONESTLY: i would like to but i don't know what will happen to me. Will i be the next Job because of the bad things i have already done? i have REAL fear of that. that is just something i will absolutly NOT be able to handle. Not that my life is much better then Job's was anyways. only thing lacking is i am not physically sick and i still have a roof over my head but thats about it.

It's really about going home - the place where there are no more tears - the place where we are meant to be.

If we are going home where was our soul at? How come we don't know what was going on before we were born? Thats one reason i don't buy the soul thing.

The scripture you are looking for is:
Heb 6:4-6
4 - "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 - who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 - if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."

But know there is much more to the interpretation of this passage then what first meets the eye. It is not simply saying those who fall away cannot be saved, because they CAN be saved. It is saying something MUCH deeper.

Yeah, i have a hard time understanding MOST of the scriptures...many just don't make any sense to me. Will you be willing to explain them, Blue. i promise i will listen


So thats it for me now. those are my questions and responses to your posts. hear me out and try to bear with me. i am an extremely confused individual when it comes to the bible and the whole god/jesus deal. Lamb made it clear i don't know much of what i am talking about. So, please, enlighten me. i WILL listen. Some of you said i am here asking for a reason

laters,
-Rick

 

[£amb]

Yes and it is no rant. i am willing to listen. like most other agnostics or atheists, i don't try to argue back on "your truth."(ehh, your truth, meaning your faith and beliefs) i do willingly listen because i am curious. i have been going to church, obviously, i just don't understand a thing during Sunday mornings.
To sum it up. i am confused as to what i want, really.
So , again, YES i will listen

Thank you for your honsesty. Sometimes we have to "weed" out if someone is truly trying to seek answers or someone just trying to start a commotion. I and others will try to answer as honestly as we can. I'll have to get back at another time. Getting late and the words are starting to blur in front of my eyes.

 

[CheshireDragon]

Sometimes we have to "weed" out if someone is truly trying to seek answers or someone just trying to start a commotion.

Its kewl, i understand

I and others will try to answer as honestly as we can.

Thank you, i do need the help to understand the scriptures.


BTW, I do have a bible present and in my posession..it is the New King James Version: The reformation study bible. Its really neat. It has explanations of some of the verses and what they mean. SO, if you have some scriptures or something you think would help me then let me know and I will read them

 

[holo]

Hey, Rick, I hope you've got coffee handy, because we just love to explain faith, God and the bible, and you'll probably see us argue over it quite a bit.

I'll try to make my take on it short, this is basically what I believe:
Jesus is a living person whom you can actually relate to, as in you speak, he hears you. He is nothing like a computer or some fuzzy, mysterious spirit in the sky, and just like reading Bob Dylan's autobiography won't make you his friend, neither will reading a "manual" about Jesus make you actually know him. In other words, you'll have to meet him personally. How that is going to happen, I can't say, because it's obviously so personal.

I have to say, like the others, that God isn't angry with you. He never was. That's the gospel in all it's simplicity - God took his anger out on Jesus.

Consider this thought: GOD believes in US. That sums up a lot IMO.

 

[~Nikki~]

I used to shout 'IT'S NOT FAIR! I'd rather not be born than have to face the choice of obeying God in everything and going to heaven or disobeying and going to hell'.

Honestly IMO I think the problem you have is not that you don't know whether it's true or not, but in your heart you KNOW it's true and don't like the idea of being accountable to God for your actions and the way you live your life.

Lemme just tell you that I hated Christians, hated God, was angry at Him for forcing me into a corner where I had no choice but to do what He said or go to hell for rejecting Him.

So I rejected Him, went down a path I will always regret, brought myself a lot of pain and confusion and eventually realised that God gives all His commandments for our good. Had I accepted Him I wouldn't have done the things I did, I would have escaped years of depression, anorexia, bullimia, which were a direct result of my head being messed up because I didn't obey God.

When I finally got to the point where I realised that God never set out to ruin my fun, but instead was trying to protect me all along I committed my life and all my decisions from that day forward to Him. Because He knows best (I know that from experience).

It's just that thing of realising you have to surrender your life to someone else that's the big deal...but for sure it's worth it to know that I won't have to face God's wrath when He judges us. And my love for God grew pretty much instantly when I accepted Him as ruler of my life so now I do things to please Him, not just because I feel like I have to.

God bless you...

 

[SassySDA]

HONESTLY: i would like to but i don't know what will happen to me. Will i be the next Job because of the bad things i have already done? i have REAL fear of that. that is just something i will absolutly NOT be able to handle. Not that my life is much better then Job's was anyways. only thing lacking is i am not physically sick and i still have a roof over my head but thats about it.

Allow me to share something with you...my own salvation. A little bit of testimony, if you will permit me to do so. I promise to try and make it quick and to the point.

When I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and asked Him to forgive me of all of my past sins, and asked Him to come live in my heart and use my life to do His will...I felt a change in myself immediately. A tremendous weight lifted straight up off of my shoulders. I felt happy again for the first time in a long time...true happiness, and I wasn't worried about anything either, where before I was nothing BUT a worrier.

I also took on an immediate STRONG desire to be baptized. I wanted to bury "the old man" and become new in Jesus. I wanted to be buried in Christ, and start my christian walk with Him all fresh and new.

God says He will give you a new heart with new desires. The things you once loved you'll hate and the things you once hated you will love.

God kept his promise. I IMMEDIATELY received that new heart. The change in myself, and in the way I was perceived by others was apparent almost immediately as well.

My biggest sinful habit was cursing. Oh my, I was worse than a sailor on shore leave. I noticed that I no longer used profanity. It was not a conscious thought of "ok, now that you're a christian you can't use profanity" type of thing. It was AUTOMATIC.

Before my salvation, I found reading scripture to be not only difficult if not impossible to understand but BOOOOORRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG as well. After my salvation, the Holy Spirit studied with me and everything started to become as clear as my old McGuffy Reader and the See Spot Run series. I can still remember shaking my head and wondering to myself, "why didn't I see this before?" "A kindergartner could understand this", etc. Of course the reason it all became clear was because of the change that Jesus had made in my life, and will make in yours if you only stop railing against Him and accept the gift of love and salvation He so desperately wants you to have. I can tell how badly Jesus wants you to accept, because the Holy Spirit is gnawing at you or you wouldn't be here asking these questions...praise Jesus.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and state something that I hear coming through your typewritten words. You hate christians, going to church, the thought of a blissful heaven, etc., because when you look at true christians, you see something you want but don't have. You truly, whether you consciously realize it or not, want the same bliss, the same love in your heart, the same hopes for other brothers and sisters to seek Jesus and His gift, the same PEACE that we have in knowing what our future holds, and you have convinced yourself that either #1. You don't know HOW to attain it, or #2. You don't want it. I believe #1, but I do NOT believe #2.

God is a God of love, Rick. He loves all of His children and He wants you to come back into the fold, He wants that with all of His heart. He's been sending the Holy Spirit to you specifically to nudge you and keep you seeking. As powerful of a God as He is, He could simply say, "Rick...I save you, you are mine, salvation is yours, now you WILL follow me." Our God doesn't work that way. He gave us a heart and a mind, and allows us the freedom of choice. He will not force Himself, or His love on you. But just as any parent will work with a child who has gone astray, so will He.

I do not believe in a place called Hell, Rick. I know the baptists do, I was raised one. But after much research of scripture and study, I find that Hell is not backed up anywhere in the bible...scripturally. Jesus says, "I come quickly, and I bring my reward with me according to every man and his works" Unfortunately, that's not a DIRECT quote, but that's what it says. The wicked will be burned, no doubt about that...but it's not forever and ever and ever, as I was taught. You can't call God a God of Love and then turn around and talk of Him throwing His wicked children into a pit and have them burn FOREVER. Their punishment IS death...eternal separation from God the Father. "The wages of sin, is death".

There are many denominations out there, Rick. I was born and raised a baptist, and I left it one year ago, and changed to another one. I sought one that based their teachings and their doctrines on the BIBLE, not on traditions of men. All I am saying is there are many different churches out there...maybe you should try seeking elsewhere than the one you are in?

I feel a lot anger and hostility coming from you, my friend. That's coming from somewhere, and if you are experiencing anything like what I used to before I left, you are feeling like "what's the use"? I've constantly been told I'm "going to burn in the firey pits of Hell forever, so I guess that's what is going to happen to me". You may have even questioned just why a loving God would do that to his creation.

The bible is full of the answers you seek. If you can get past your bitterness (I'm sorry but THAT shows through your typewritten word very strongly and plainly) and look at the bible with a whole new light, (pun intended), you just may be amazed with what you learn. It certainly couldn't hurt anything, it's free, and the way I see it is, "what have you got to lose?"

Don't look at the bible with ANY pre-set from past denominational teaching mindsets. Try to clear your mind of all of that and start afresh, start anew. Do ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance, because whether you know it or not, the SPIRIT is what has been "eating at you". The Holy Spirit IS with you. Right now. All you have to do is ask. All you have to do is say something like, "Holy Spirit? I wish to start searching God's word ANEW, please guide me in my studies". That's all. Start out with small amounts of time and then build up....but try to read some scripture nightly. Most of all, STOP playing those old "tapes" in your head. Let all of that go, and seek God a-fresh. He's waiting for you with open arms.

May God richly bless you as you seek answers to your questions.

 

[artybloke]

I was told by my baptist in-laws that god will one day harden my heart(if I keep rejecting him)

Don't believe everything your in-laws tell you.

 

[PhilosopherDave]

i think what bothers me most is that i am human. i would rather be an animal and have no soul at all. Therefor after death..thats it, game-over..non-existence. i do not believe in god so i won't go to heaven, i really don't even want to go to heaven, yet according to christianity i will go to hell. i don't want to go there and i do not believe in satan either. i think i can sum it up in one sentence(or I'll try to as best i can): i didn't ask to be here so why am i getting the short end of the stick and cursed to a firey death? Why can't i just NOT EXIST after I die? Can god offer me that? Is there any way to destroy a soul so there is no afterlife? Either way I think it would be a bum deal...yeah, I don't like many christians want to burn in a fire pit but, then again living in peacful bliss for eternity would be very boring to me as well.
I have heard somewhat of a place in between called "limbo" or something...not sure of what it is.
If thats not it and sometimes the case. in general, i am just confused and not sure what i want and this point. i know i don't want to be a slave of some angry higher being. i feel that if i became a christian i would be a slave to the cross. i don't want that. second, i was not around when adam and eve ate that apple. its NOT my fault! Why am i, as all others here, STILL being punished for what two morons did so many thousands of years ago?

i am being sincere in asking these questions. i really do want to know? there is soooo much i want to know i just need to find the time to ask. 10hr day starts tomorrow at 9am...i really need to get to bed. i am a bad manager for staying up WAY past my bedtime.

laters,
-rick

CheshireDragon,

You're asking why you have to be punished when you didn't ask to be placed into existence...good question, I've asked that same thing a few times. First off, CD, you seem to have some personal issues that need resolving, and I don't think this has a lot to do with God directly. Maybe you're clinically depressed and everything in your life feels disconnected and bland, right now. When you say that you have concern that you don't want exist after you die, you concern me because I take that as an indication that you don't really feel great about life today. That, from a socialogical perspective, is not a healthy sign. And being that you've admitted to having a tendency to alienate others, a few particular Christians specifically, I don't think most of your difficulties are theological in nature. You might want to see if you can seek the help of a professional counselor.

Let's assume, just for the sake of avoiding presumption, that your problems are theological. Okay. I'm going to ask...where did you get the idea that heaven is, or would be, a boring place? For you to make that statement means you already have an understanding of what heaven is. Where did you get your particular understanding? Was it from your own deductive abilities? If if was, you may have missed some details. I don't know either way, but I'm bringing this potential to your attention.

In regard to God. You obviously want 'freedom' with a captial F. Freedom is a great thing to have, isn't it. We all like that. But, I'm not sure that your perception of God's sovereignty is accurate...you seem to see him as a slave driver. Where did you get that? Here, let's read something Jesus stated:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. And the slave does not remain int he house forever; the son does remain forever. If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:34-36) Now, from looking at this, the concept of slavery, from a biblical standpoint, falls on the side of humanity...and we are enslaved by our own bad decisions, also suffering further consequences. But, Jesus Christ CAN free us from this inclination, and it appears that it is freedom given that allows us to reach a further potential. What is that further, ultimate potential?

The apostle Paul gives us some insight, quite emphatically in fact, as writing to some hypothetical contender, (not in this case to you directly, but the overall theme applies) 1 Corinthians 15: 36"You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be...42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body. 51 We shall all be changed 53 For the perishable must put on the imperishable

The theme here is 'transformation'. If you become a Christan, when you are resurrected, you are transformed into an entity that will not be subject to the typical human limitations you now have, neither physical nor emotional. There won't BE any boredom in heaven, because you will be in a different state of existence.

Additionally, you're not being punished for what some others did. You are in judgement from God, if you commit sin against him... all people do because they are prone to do so, by simply being limited human beings. they wan't to expand their beings, but God only gave us about 5 or 6 cubic feet of encased flesh in which to do this. God realized that we can't be Him, so He helps understand existence, many times unasked, if we allow Him.

So, CD, what do you think? Do you think there is a chance that God might actually care for you? You very well could be one of His elect if you are feeling so conscientious about your state of being.

God Bless - PhilosopherDave

 

[CheshireDragon]

WOW, yeah, long post there Blue. i like the coffeee analogy. That is probably the first thing i have heard that comes close to what you are explaining. I just don't get the window of opportunity. cause you say:

...accept Christ now because if you don't and you move away from Christ it just won't be possible to come back, because you already *had* full knowledge and you *still* turned your back.. so if at full knowledge of the truth if you still cannot accept Christ, you truly must be lost.

i already feel like i am at this point. i have been going to my girl-friend's(GF) parent's church since sometime in January. So thats around 8mo now. i have been going to the sunday school lessons that her dad teaches and still i can't accept it as truth. i am a rather scientific person and i believe in evolution. i can't accept the fact that some being said, "abracadabra" and poof there was a universe with a perfectly made planet. Like adam and eve how did they come to be without being born? was it another, "allakhazam" and poof they were there? Another thing that really pushes my button and blows me away is that adam and eve's sons married women that i have NO IDEA where the women came from. One more thing while i am on it. i think somewhere after god flodded the world and killed(wow, what love) everyone. Not that, but it said......hmm i am using the NKJV i said that in my previous post i think....let me look it up.....ok i can't find it but NO ONE and i mean NO ONE has been able to tell me where it says drugs are bad. i smoke pot on occasion and my gf's dad says the bible tells us drugs are bad but he has never shown me where it says that. What i was looking for in the noah spot was where god said all seeded plants are for use, or something like that. Anyway, marijuana grows naturally on this earth and making it bad is like saying god made a mistake. i can just see god right now looking down on the earth after the finished on the 7th day looking down at the earth and saying, "there it is, my creation, perfect in every way"............"OH MY MEEEE...i left pot everywhere, i shouldn't have smoked that joint on the 5th day!! That might give humans the impression to use it. great, now i have to create republicans."
ok, bad joke...still her dad tells me that tried to justify smoking pot for two years after accepting christ. not really so sure how he kicked the habit but, none the less he did.

i'd like to take a look at those books but, i am always broke and barely making as it is and will have to check em out another time.

WOW, i really trailed off there hehe, i am bad at doing that. ok getting back..

I used to shout 'IT'S NOT FAIR! I'd rather not be born than have to face the choice of obeying God in everything and going to heaven or disobeying and going to hell'...........Lemme just tell you that I hated Christians, hated God, was angry at Him for forcing me into a corner where I had no choice but to do what He said or go to hell for rejecting Him.

Thats EXACTLY how i feel. thank you!! Especially that first line. i would rather not exist then to have to deal with this and seeing how my life sucks as it is i think i would have been better of being that first baby my mom had.(she miscarried, everyday i think, "that lucky little punk. Why could that not have been me.")

So I rejected Him, went down a path I will always regret, brought myself a lot of pain and confusion and eventually realised that God gives all His commandments for our good. Had I accepted Him I wouldn't have done the things I did, I would have escaped years of depression, anorexia, bullimia, which were a direct result of my head being messed up because I didn't obey God.

Maybe its just my thought pattern(i have been diagnosed with depression, as to what type, not a clue) BUT, i just think that nothing will happen when and IF i accept god because ......oh great here comes a long explanation, i'll try and shorten it i was told by my gf's dad that god does not see anyone who does not have the blood of christ in them(unsaved people) so if my life is already as ****** as it is with the decisions i have made what makes me think i will listen to god IF he will even speak to me. not to sound harsh on the subject but i DO NOT want to follow all his rules and i don't even know what most sins are. now IMO if i heard a voice i would think i am crazy and would seriously need to get to a doctor to put me on schitzo meds. i was on antidepressants before but NEVER again will i do that, they ended up messing with me more and i think i am worse off now. let me just say PAXIL sucks!

Well i have to help my gf clean the house cause her parents are coming over then i have to goto work. i close tonight so i only have to work 4 - 8:30 ..talk to you all later

-rick

 

[CheshireDragon]

wow 3 posts in the time it took me to do one....will respond later

 

[holo]

CheshireDragon,

regarding the drugs, my suggestion is simply to chill out. Imagine you're smoking a joint . I used drugs for a long time after meeting Jesus, and while I experienced him changing me in many ways, most importantly in the love department, I always found it curious that he didn't seem to say a thing about my drug habit. After all, I didn't just smoke joints for fun, I was addicted to various pills and whatnot. Gradually, though, the addiction waned without my interference, and I've become more and more conscious of what's good/bad for me (as opposed to labeling everything sinful/not sinful). So don't sweat it. Follow your heart. God had a whole lot of changing to do in me before he came around to the drugs, and he still hasn't bothered me about the cigarettes. Looking back at who I used to be, and who I am now, though, I'm sure it won't be long before I'm a smoke-free vegetarian or something

All in due time, my friend.

Oh, and don't stop asking questions (but remember that important things, like breathing, have nothing to do with whether or not you understand them).

And another thing, you said something about not even knowing what most sins are. Well, why would you? It's not like God presents you with a list of dos and don'ts. No, he offer a Spirit, a life, a new creation. Imagine a child learning from it's father. I dunno about your parents, but the reason I'm like my dad is because I've spent time with him, not because he's given me written instructions on how to live.

You're on your way to something really good, man. Really good. Walk, don't run, take your time, ask your questions, don't take other people's interpretations for granted. If God is indeed out there and interested in you, surely he can meet you personally and guide you the rest of the way.

 

[Harlan Norris]

My heart was also hardened, But just as with you, the issue just wouldn't go away. I finally realised that there was a God. That revelation has changed my life. What you are going through is part of the process, for a lot of people. However, the decision you make will determine your fate in the end. In spite of this though, it is most important that you willingly chose Jesus. One thing that made a difference to me was the realization, tha this life is short, and frankly pointless without God. Just as you reach for the brass ring. Old age or disease will often snatch it away, and you will be separated from your worldly works. Which are worthless without God. You are on the right path. Don't give up. Chose life.

 

[CheshireDragon]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and state something that I hear coming through your typewritten words. You hate christians, going to church, the thought of a blissful heaven, etc., because when you look at true christians, you see something you want but don't have. You truly, whether you consciously realize it or not, want the same bliss, the same love in your heart, the same hopes for other brothers and sisters to seek Jesus and His gift, the same PEACE that we have in knowing what our future holds, and you have convinced yourself that either #1. You don't know HOW to attain it, or #2. You don't want it. I believe #1, but I do NOT believe #2.

yes, bliss would be nice but, not like christian bliss though. They seem WAY too overly happy, i simply want to be content. And yes i agree more with #1 and a little bit on #2.

As powerful of a God as He is, He could simply say, "Rick...I save you, you are mine, salvation is yours, now you WILL follow me." Our God doesn't work that way.

Too bad...IF i heard a booming voice say that out of thin air, i would believe! next wourds out of my mouth would be, "Yes Sir!!!" But i do not hear so, i do not say.

Their punishment IS death...eternal separation from God the Father. "The wages of sin, is death".

So, if i never believe and i die without believing then i will pretty much be in non-existence? That is what i am after.

you are feeling like "what's the use"?

All the time.

Maybe you're clinically depressed and everything in your life feels disconnected and bland, right now. When you say that you have concern that you don't want exist after you die, you concern me because I take that as an indication that you don't really feel great about life today.

i am but i posted that after you did and yes my life sucks BADLY...in all honesty i would rather be dead and have no existence. To not feel anything anymore.

You might want to see if you can seek the help of a professional counselor.

i probably would cause i know its not right to be like this but what can i do...i am flat broke and there are no free clinics in Tyler.

where did you get the idea that heaven is, or would be, a boring place? For you to make that statement means you already have an understanding of what heaven is.

Glad you asked...its going to be a bit tricky to explain but i'll do my best. i was told that once we die and get resurected and go to heaven we will be kind of like god and be all knowing. Well, if there is a party or something that night and you were invited to go BUT, if we are all knowing then why bother going to the party if you knew what was going to happen? OR if you knew you would have a bad time then why bother either? Get it? thats where i get the idea of a boring heaven. If you know whats going to happen ALL THE TIME, then why bother doing anything? This is also one of the reasons i would rather not exist after i die.
IF true and I believed and went to heaven would god even grant that request? To have the soul completely destroyed? or is that even possible?

"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. And the slave does not remain int he house forever; the son does remain forever. If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:34-36) Now, from looking at this, the concept of slavery, from a biblical standpoint, falls on the side of humanity...and we are enslaved by our own bad decisions, also suffering further consequences.

But, i already feel free. Free to do my own thing and not what god wants. heck, i don't get what i want why should i do what he wants. As humans we are going to sin anyway, so whats the point of being saved if all that happens when we sin is get smacked by god for doing so?

So, CD, what do you think? Do you think there is a chance that God might actually care for you? You very well could be one of His elect if you are feeling so conscientious about your state of being.

i still don't think god cares for me. i have been on this planet for 25years now and in this last year that i have been getting told about him and asking about him all i feel is hatred from him and it seems to fuel mine. What do you mean by one of his elect?

As for God making a mistake with, say, marijuana.. if I chomp on the end of a marijuana plant, I'm *probably* not gonna get high, lol. I might get sick, ha. I mean, human beings take whats in nature, and they bunk it up! Thats the nature of God given free will, which is sick on some level because we take what God made and we screw it up royally.

No you won't get sick(well maybe) you WILL get high you can eat the plant to get high too it lasts longer and is a much more relaxing high. More of a body high then a head high.

God knew you before you were born. ["Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations" (Jeremiah 1:5).] That piece of information right there is heavey stuff, becaus eyou have to think: "I think I'm worthless, screwed up, what have you.. but God KNEW me before I was born, and created me *anyway*". He knew you and He knows you now, and He not only created you but He loves you. Thats *heavy* stuff, because obviously that means you ain't worth nothin on this earth, you *mean* something.

Thats hard to understand because if he knew i was going to be this way then why would he have created me? Why wouldn't he have just created a bloodline of people that would just believe in him?

i was only on the paxil for two months but, it made me worse then i am now. before i would just get sad all the time and after the paxil i had and still have suicidal thoughts almost daily. it just keeps getting worse too.