hardened heart

[Llauralin]

yes, bliss would be nice but, not like christian bliss though. They seem WAY too overly happy, i simply want to be content. And yes i agree more with #1 and a little bit on #2.

Ah...There's a beautiful quote I have to go find, about the Christian idea of "bright sadness." Christianity is to be joyful, but not always happy, as we usually mean the word.

Glad you asked...its going to be a bit tricky to explain but i'll do my best. i was told that once we die and get resurected and go to heaven we will be kind of like god and be all knowing. Well, if there is a party or something that night and you were invited to go BUT, if we are all knowing then why bother going to the party if you knew what was going to happen? OR if you knew you would have a bad time then why bother either? Get it? thats where i get the idea of a boring heaven. If you know whats going to happen ALL THE TIME, then why bother doing anything? This is also one of the reasons i would rather not exist after i die.
IF true and I believed and went to heaven would god even grant that request? To have the soul completely destroyed? or is that even possible?

Well, first, I'm not so sure that we're going to have that kind of sudo-omnipotence you describe - where did you get that idea from? I tend to suppose that because God is infinate, and we are not, there will still be adventure and suprise in Heaven. Whatever it is, since Heaven is created for us, and we to dwell there, it will not be boring. Second, no, Christianity does not teach that God will destroy any person at their request. That idea is actually in direct opposition to what we really mean by Heaven. One way of looking at it is this - God is Life; the only true Life in the universe; we are only living beings as a result of His life and love overflowing in generosity, to create beings that are also capable of those things. That is, we are only truly alive in connection to Him, which is why the main consequence of sin is mortality. One of the definitions of Heaven is being with God, and those who are with Him share in His life; this is the only reason humans may be immortal, for in and of ourselves we are not. Those in Hell are alive in one sense, because they are still loved by God, but not in another sense because they cannot accept or return that love, and therefore God's presence becomes a torment to them. So Heaven and Hell are much more like a state of being, or relating to God, than they are places. This, at least is the view of the Orthodox Church; other's have a slightly different take.

Does that make any sense?

 

[SassySDA]

God speaks to none of us, Cheshire....that's why Jesus is our intercessor.

As for God making a mistake with marijuana? It's called hemp and makes wonderfully strong ropes.

Don't ask me what any other use for the tobacco plant might be...but there are lots of pretty posies on this earth...some of them edible, some of them are just to look at. Just because it's here doesn't mean we have to eat, drink, or smoke it.

I believe your evolution theory, or was it the big bang theory has already been proven to be "bunk".

Me thinks you doth protest too much...in other words you are turning something into brain surgery, or trying to anyway, something that isn't.

Only you can decide...

 

[CheshireDragon]

As for God making a mistake with marijuana? It's called hemp and makes wonderfully strong ropes.

Belts too And yes i had a hemp rope tied to a tree in my parents front yard that i used to swing on when i was a kid and its still there..its been through 100º+ summers and 20º winters since 1991 and still holding strong

Well, first, I'm not so sure that we're going to have that kind of sudo-omnipotence you describe - where did you get that idea from?

The baptist in-laws, yeah i been told not to listen to them to much hehehe....her(my gf) dad explains stuff to me but, i think its mostly my fault on the interpretation. either i am not getting all of it or i don't understand it and when i turn around and say, "Well they said..." i spew it out wrong.

I tend to suppose that because God is infinate, and we are not, there will still be adventure and suprise in Heaven.

i was thinking about this yesterday and came up with pretty much the same conclusion. That, yeah, maybe i am not all there about the whole heaven thing.

Does that make any sense?

To some extent yes.

I believe your evolution theory, or was it the big bang theory has already been proven to be "bunk".

not sure what was proven bunk but, i am not sure of HOW the universe was created. i'll listen to pretty much anything you tell me cause there is no solid evidence on either side.

Me thinks you doth protest too much...in other words you are turning something into brain surgery, or trying to anyway, something that isn't.

i know i do. i over analyze EVERYTHING and try to break apart what i don't understand.

Since i have started this thread a lot of weird things have been happening. Not sure what it is but, i have wanted to stop smoking weed for about a month now and today i just heard that my dealer got busted. i have no desire now to even go and look for another. So, looks like i am quitting. This makes me happy
i have wanted to get a better job and i talked to my boss about it today. He is willing to give me time off during the day to go and look for one. Also, i owed him 200$ and was going to pay him back 100$ each from my next 2 checks. Well, i still owe him 100$ but to help me out in giving me more time to pay him back so i can get my Texas ID AND get my emissions sticker renewed, he offered to split it again and have me only pay him 50$ this check so i can have that extra 50$ to get those 2 things done. My boss has always been way kewl like that though so, not sure. My gf and i were supposed to move in to a downstairs one bedroom apartment here in this complex but, 3days after we put the 150$ down for the transfer the apartments upstairs burned down which made the downstairs ones unsafe and unlivable. This in turn has forced us to get a 2 bedroom upstairs apartment which is yeah a bit more pricey but WAY better concidering we have a son and wanted him to have his own room. There are some other things to that have been going on but, the former are the 3 big ones. Could this possibly be god/JC? Does he even help people like this in ways to get them to come to him or does he only help people who have accepted him and JC? To be honest now that i have written that down to tell you all i am really freaked out. It quite possibly might be true but, i am still so unsure. i feel really weird now..i gotta go
laters,
-rick

 

[BarbB]

God helps those who are seeking. It sounds as though God is pursuing you and you are slowing down in your race to get away from him.

God bless you Rick.

 

[kayd1966]

... Could this possibly be god/JC? Does he even help people like this in ways to get them to come to him or does he only help people who have accepted him and JC? To be honest now that i have written that down to tell you all i am really freaked out. It quite possibly might be true but, i am still so unsure. i feel really weird now..i gotta go
laters,
-rick

God loves all of us because we are His children...you would do anything for your son, right? Well Jesus died for us so we could live. God will watch out for you because He is your heavenly Father and He's waiting for you to turn to Him and accept His gift of salvation. It really is that simple.

I love watching my kids open their presents at Christmas and birthdays because the best part of those events for me is getting them something that will make them happy...but the worst part of those events...is waiting for the day to arrive so I can SEE them open the gift and then spend time with them playing.

God the Father is standing holding His GIFT of salvation, and He is waiting for you to accept it so He can spend time with you...you are that important to Him.

(amazing explainations in this thread...God Bless)

 

[CheshireDragon]

*sigh*
Actually, i think i stopped caring. i think all i needed to do was vent some issues. i am not sure what those issues are but, whatever it or they were is gone now.
thank you all for your input and responses.
i do have one last thing to say though...if god does exist, i am truly sorry, i just don't understand, i hope that god does.

laters all,
-rick

 

[NothingButTheBlood]

*sigh*
Actually, i think i stopped caring. i think all i needed to do was vent some issues. i am not sure what those issues are but, whatever it or they were is gone now.
thank you all for your input and responses.
i do have one last thing to say though...if god does exist, i am truly sorry, i just don't understand, i hope that god does.

laters all,
-rick

I hope you would continue to seeking God's face. I would request you read your Bible just a little bit every day. If you don't understand it, and sometimes I don't, look for a Bible study at a good church. You asked about what God could do and wonderful things happened. I guess I hope that you don't give up on Him.

 

[-Frank-]

I was told by my baptist in-laws that god will one day harden my heart(if I keep rejecting him) and I will not be able to get saved after that....IF this is true, I have been forcefully rejecting him for about a year and a half by: being a jerk to every religous person I know, slamming my door in the faces of any one who asks, "have you found Jesus?" or whatever god they are pitching and even going to the church with my in-laws and causing problems between other members. I have already suceeded in making one of the deacons leave. YET, I still think about the whole "god and jesus" bit from time to time and everytime I do it makes me angry. I just want to stop thinking about it and I can't. Its like that math whiz thinking about that unsolvable problem. I am sure I will know the day that my heart is hardened, but how can I speed up that day? Then I can simply get on with my life. Of course, the troubling thing is, that if I don't believe in any of it anyway, I will never stop thinking about it because its all in my head...or is it?
Either way any help is appreciated.

Why do you want to "just stop"? From what you are saying, you believe in God and reject Him anyway. That is the worst-case scenario. Does this not concern you?

 

[CheshireDragon]

From what you are saying, you believe in God and reject Him anyway. That is the worst-case scenario. Does this not concern you?

i think i just have head issues cause i think after a year and a half god would have already given up on me especially after all the problems i have caused. Now that leads me to believe that there is no god.
my other issue is that i am not sure. i have based my life on scientific evidences and before you say anything about that....there is no proof that god exists NOR is there any to prove the NON-existence. The only proof i see that god exists is in the bible and people who claim that they hear him and that god has touched there lives. The latter i believe is a personal thing that only THAT person can experience. So the latter statement is void to me because its personal. i have felt nothing and i have tried before, still nothing. About the bible, i just can't buy it. IF one god is as loving as you say he is then why would he send us to a place to be tormented forever without even seeing him first. i have heard that statement, "you can stand in the middle of the freeway and say, "I don't believe in trucks." yet that won't make them any less real.' Thats is irrelivant to me cause i can SEE trucks and if i wanted to walk across the street i can TOUCH them too. its easy for a christian to use that statement cause they feel that deep down in there hearts that god does exist.
Ok i went off in the wrong direction...getting back on track here, just as you can't prove god exists i can't prove that a god didn't create the universe and all that good stuff. i could tell you it was all a big bang but, i am not sure i believe that either. i can safely say, "i have NO clue at all how it all started." that doesn't bother me one bit. Where i go after i die..i hope it is ceased consciousness, thats it, end of the line, nothing else, "game over man, game over!" but like the begining of the universe, i don't know if god really exists.
i have read parts of the bible and when i did i sincerely asked god to reveal himself to me and, nothing. Now i am just trying to ignore it all and it just won't go away.

 

[holo]

i think i just have head issues cause i think after a year and a half god would have already given up on me especially after all the problems i have caused. Now that leads me to believe that there is no god.

That, or maybe God is more forgiving than you thought.

 

[heron]

CheshireDragon,
Your stories of what's gone on in the last month are exciting; yes, that is the way God works in our lives. He shows us that he cares about those weird little details, and connects people in unexpected ways. We derive a very nice contentment from that daily phenomenon!

From your description of the family, it sounds as though you've been through quite a battle. Sometimes family gets into unwarranted competition, in the name of "caring" for your future...they push and pull and demand change without presenting the value of a decision. If you agree with them, they have "won," and will condescend a bit to remind you. It reminds me of trying to feed an anorexic: why would someone's advice to eat make sense to someone who is proud of their restraint?

Just know that, religious decision or not, God does care about things going on with you. As Holo said, He is not asking for a sudden leap into the Unknown Bliss. He's just trying to show you that He knows who you are, not who others want you to be.

 

[CheshireDragon]

i think the hardest thing for me to figure out is that when i am here(and sometimes other places) i feel like i am compelled to believe..errm...like i should believe. Yet other times i don't feel like i need to(or want to.) then i feel like i get a snap back to reality and think, "what the heck am i thinking?" WHAT IS GOING ON!?!? i just want it to go away! this is the point i get mad and just would rather jump off a building. Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately there are none in Tyler big enough to hit terminal velocity.

 

[saami]

i think the hardest thing for me to figure out is that when i am here(and sometimes other places) i feel like i am compelled to believe..errm...like i should believe. Yet other times i don't feel like i need to(or want to.) then i feel like i get a snap back to reality and think, "what the heck am i thinking?" WHAT IS GOING ON!?!? i just want it to go away! this is the point i get mad and just would rather jump off a building. Fortunately, or maybe unfortunately there are none in Tyler big enough to hit terminal velocity.

Sounds just like me - and I've been a Christian a long time. I feel that hardening and trapped when my sisters start using their terms, etc. and figuring if I haven't done things exactly the way they did, or believed or have conclusions just like theirs I off. Rest assured the VAST MAJORITY OFCHRISTIANS are NOT like that. Look into your local Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, Reformed, Presbyterian, Moravian, Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, and lots more ...

 

[-Frank-]

i think i just have head issues cause i think after a year and a half god would have already given up on me especially after all the problems i have caused. Now that leads me to believe that there is no god.

Because you are doing what you want? Listen to yourself. God doesn't force anyone to love Him.

my other issue is that i am not sure. i have based my life on scientific evidences and before you say anything about that....there is no proof that god exists NOR is there any to prove the NON-existence.

Neither atheists nor theists will agree on this, and the only compromise anyone can come up with is this.

The only proof i see that god exists is in the bible and people who claim that they hear him and that god has touched there lives. The latter i believe is a personal thing that only THAT person can experience. So the latter statement is void to me because its personal. i have felt nothing and i have tried before, still nothing.

What have you "tried"?

About the bible, i just can't buy it. IF one god is as loving as you say he is then why would he send us to a place to be tormented forever without even seeing him first.

1st of all, there is no Scripture to back up the idea that the unsaved will be burning in hell for ever and ever and ever. Second, He does send those to hell after they are judged, and all will see Him before the judgment.

i have heard that statement, "you can stand in the middle of the freeway and say, "I don't believe in trucks." yet that won't make them any less real.' Thats is irrelivant to me cause i can SEE trucks and if i wanted to walk across the street i can TOUCH them too. its easy for a christian to use that statement cause they feel that deep down in there hearts that god does exist.

Well, if you were to open your eyes and feel the rushing air pressure coming towards you, you would feel more certain that there is a truck headed toward you.

Ok i went off in the wrong direction...getting back on track here, just as you can't prove god exists i can't prove that a god didn't create the universe and all that good stuff. i could tell you it was all a big bang but, i am not sure i believe that either. i can safely say, "i have NO clue at all how it all started." that doesn't bother me one bit. Where i go after i die..i hope it is ceased consciousness, thats it, end of the line, nothing else, "game over man, game over!" but like the begining of the universe, i don't know if god really exists.

Ever hear of Pascal's wager? If you are right, you won't know it to rejoice. If you are wrong, you will be in a horrible state.

i have read parts of the bible and when i did i sincerely asked god to reveal himself to me and, nothing. Now i am just trying to ignore it all and it just won't go away.

You have "read parts of the Bible"? If the Bible is God's own word, it deserves more attention than just a casual glance here and there. Paul preached to a group of people called the Bereans and they examined the Scriptures both night and day to see if what he was preaching was true.

If nothing else, let your conscience convince you. There is evil in all the world. If there is no God, then there is no ultimate justice, and all the millions of murderers throughout time that never came to justice will never see their just desserts.

The fact is, you know that there is such a thing as good and evil, right and wrong, just and unjust. Without God, these ideas are useless; they are the opinions of individuals.

 

[heron]

"When i am here(and sometimes other places) i feel like i am compelled to believe."

I've experienced an odd phenomenon, and it might be similar to what you're saying: some Sunday mornings, I don't feel like going to church because I expect it to be repetitive and predictable. When I get there, I am overwhelmed with an energy in the air that strengthens and refreshes me, and hear plenty of unexpected things (answers to questions I'd had during the week, confirmations of inklings, etc.).

Who would think, after decades of doing the same thing, that I could see and sense something new every week. I think that this energy is part of why the scriptures advise us not to give up on fellowship; there are benefits that we can't generate on our own.

 

[CheshireDragon]

You have "read parts of the Bible"? If the Bible is God's own word, it deserves more attention than just a casual glance here and there.

NO, i was told to read john..again, this was a while ago so not sure. It was explained to me that i was to read john because he inspired people to believe. That is the "part" of the bible i was refering to.

some Sunday mornings, I don't feel like going to church

nothing like this. When i am drug to church on sundays by my gf i get mad more then anything and i think thats why i do the things i do. my one main goal several months ago was to break up the church so we wouldn't have to go, now i don't really care so i don't try as hard. i already forced a deacon to leave, thats good enough for me right now.

Who would think, after decades of doing the same thing, that I could see and sense something new every week.

oh no, i will not be going to church for decades. This next sunday that we go((Sept. 11th)we can only go every other week due to my job)i am going to flat out tell her, "No, i am not going anymore." then tell her exactly why. i get angry, the preacher sounds demeaning to anyone who hasn't been saved, i can't stand the people there either and we go early enough to go to sunday school where i am in the "young men's" group with 4 other guys and her dad is the teacher. *GAG* so glad that she went to bed late so we didn't have to go this last time and were able to sleep in.

Ever hear of Pascal's wager? If you are right, you won't know it to rejoice. If you are wrong, you will be in a horrible state.

i'm not sure i follow...i think i do a little....kind of like "you won't know it even if you are looking right at it" right?

1st of all, there is no Scripture to back up the idea that the unsaved will be burning in hell for ever and ever and ever. Second, He does send those to hell after they are judged, and all will see Him before the judgment.

Then why does every one say i am going to hell if i don't get saved. As to the latter statement, i feel way more at ease now if this is all true because i have said before that if i were to see him first i would then believe. Or is it too late at that point?

Well, if you were to open your eyes and feel the rushing air pressure coming towards you, you would feel more certain that there is a truck headed toward you.

i get what you are saying but, i am done with this "truck" phrase. Apparently, i can't get my point across.

If nothing else, let your conscience convince you. There is evil in all the world. If there is no God, then there is no ultimate justice, and all the millions of murderers throughout time that never came to justice will never see their just desserts.

if this country is so christian and believes that god will take care of them, then why is there a justice system locking them all up only if they are going to be judged and punished later? As for the death sentence...isn't that murder in gods eyes?

 

[-Frank-]

NO, i was told to read john..again, this was a while ago so not sure. It was explained to me that i was to read john because he inspired people to believe. That is the "part" of the bible i was refering to.

Again, a mere glance or appreciative reading won't do much. Meditate on a section at a time. Though I can't say too much about what you have or have not done personally.

i'm not sure i follow...i think i do a little....kind of like "you won't know it even if you are looking right at it" right?

I'll explain. Pascal's wager: a Christian bets his life that his way is right (ie there is a righteous God), and the atheist bets his life that his way is right (ie no God). If the atheist is right, then he will not even be there to acknowledge his correctness. If the Christian is right, the Christian has eternity in store; if the Christian is right, the atheist is in for a world of hurt.

Then why does every one say i am going to hell if i don't get saved.

Because hell is still a horrible fate "It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Just because it is not burning for ever and ever does not make it pleasant.

As to the latter statement, i feel way more at ease now if this is all true because i have said before that if i were to see him first i would then believe. Or is it too late at that point?

After death is the judgment. And you will see the judge. But at that point it is too late.

i get what you are saying but, i am done with this "truck" phrase. Apparently, i can't get my point across.

I got mine. Let's drop it. I merely thought to perpetuate it.

if this country is so christian and believes that god will take care of them,

Who said that? I don't believe it. Just look up statistics on robberies, murders, pornography and how prevalent it is in this society if you believe it.

then why is there a justice system locking them all up only if they are going to be judged and punished later?

To maintain order in this present world. God is just.

As for the death sentence...isn't that murder in gods eyes?

Death sentence for enforcement of the law (and order) is not murder in God's eyes. God Himself orders executions and reportedly directly killed numerous people in the Bible.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Thats a good point, Harlan. And it happened similar for me too. The issue just *wouldn't* go away. Thats how in the end I came to Christ.

~ ~

That's what this is all about, in my view.

 

[CheshireDragon]

I'll explain. Pascal's wager: a Christian bets his life that his way is right (ie there is a righteous God), and the atheist bets his life that his way is right (ie no God). If the atheist is right, then he will not even be there to acknowledge his correctness. If the Christian is right, the Christian has eternity in store; if the Christian is right, the atheist is in for a world of hurt.

Gotcha and I fully agree. THIS does bother me.

"It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Who is this? god/JC? if it is one of them then why is it a bad thing to fall into their hands? i thought this was the point.

Just because it is not burning for ever and ever does not make it pleasant.

i'll agree with that simply because when i am forced to goto church it is a baptist church. The pastor was saying that hell is a place where you are isolated forever(eternity) in darkness thinking over and over again all the times people told you about god/JC and that it torments you. NOW this confuses me because i hear sooooo many different things about hell. Where do i begin? Demons chasing you around, from burning in fire, from worst nightmares coming to life and playing over and over. This is why i think hell is a farce. Its kinda like me telling my son if he makes that face over and over it will stick..my parents said it to me and i believed it for about a week.

Right now..like my earlier post was stating i am thinking maybe god does exist..maybe, maybe, maybe.....hmmmmm. See this is the weird thing, i am talking about, when ever i get into an in depth talk and start thinking really hard most of my doubts go away and i start thinking, "maybe god is real." Then after a while i'll shrug it off and the feeling goes away. Is that what you all are talking about? for me i think i just have head issues, i mean i have been diagnosed with ADHD and depression so who knows. i think i have a touch of schizophrenia too. Lately, for some things i haven't been able to tell if they are imaginary or reality. Example: About a month ago(the first majorly noticable time) i was driving with my gf from Shreveport back here to Tyler. i, apparently, glanced up and saw a Dodge Magnum(sweet car ) on a bilboard. A few seconds later i was looking around on the road for this car and i asked my gf where it went and she said it was on a bilboard and i told her no it was right here on the road and she explaind that she saw me look at the car on the bilboard and i don't remember doing that. More recently i have been telling her about things i have been dreaming about, i guess, that i thought we really did and she'll get all confused and tell me it was probably a dream. i read on WebMD about a week ago ---here is a cut out: "schizophrenia affects the ability to think clearly, manage emotions, and interact appropriately with other people." ----remember the deacon. i have real bad issues dealing with most people, not all but most. What really creeps me out is that it usually does not start to show its ugly head in men until about age 25. i turned 25 in February. Of course i have no family history of it. Either way i have mo medical insurance so i can't do anythnig about it. Besides a lot of the symptoms are close to ADHD and Depression symptoms. Just think head gravy hehehe

 

[heron]

The billboard incident might just be like a deja vu flash: your brain puts it in short term memory, then quickly files it into long term, but retrieves it, thinking it was in long term forever--in this case, thinking it was in a different location. In any case, it might be worth continuing to read about symptoms because you might run across suggestions for improvement, whether you get it or not.

You might also look into panic attacks, since you seem very trapped at church. Your gf clearly wanted to share this part of her life with you, but it seems that in going, you're not doing her any favors. You might add some terms of your own, like "no Sunday school," or suggest a different church where her family and their friends are not evaluating your worth (to be with her, probably).

Churches are very different from each other. Your suspicions about Hell teachings are valid: so little is written, preachers tend to make things up. Why? Huh.