Hardcore Facts About the Law....not for children

[Cribstyl]

Made you look

Let God's word be true in your hearing.


NLT - Deu 4:32 -"Search all of history, from the time God created people on the earth until now. Then search from one end of the heavens to the other. See if anything as great as this has ever happened before.

Those who try to convince people about when God's law was given have no text to stand on.
Moses, who wrote Genesis and Dueteronomy expresses that nothing so great has ever been done before the law was given at Sinai. To teach that Sinai was a regiving of God ten commandment seems trully unscriptual. Moses asked us to look back to Adam to see if anything like this has ever taken place.
Does God need to strike a match twice?

NIV - Deu 4:13 -He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
Why is it not crystal clear to some that God's covenant with Moses is the ten commandment?


KJV - Deu 5:3 -The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.

To read and apply this text to understanding, some people still look back towards Adam for the ten commandment because Adam repesent all humanity rather to whom these commandment were really given.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Here we go again. One new thread after another arguing about the SAME topic! Geesh--will it ever stop?

No--I guess not.....Ga 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

 

[freeindeed2]

Here we go again. One new thread after another arguing about the SAME topic! Geesh--will it ever stop?

No--I guess not.....Ga 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

First verse, same chapter:

So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law.

 

[JonMiller]

I don't see how you can read Paul and say that no law existed for those who were not Jews.

JM

 

[freeindeed2]

I don't see how you can read Paul and say that no law existed for those who were not Jews.

JM

The question is were they under the old covenant/10 commandments that was given by God as a covenant to Israel at Mt. Sinai?

 

[Cribstyl]

Open the bible you'll be really mad.

Every thread I've started there you are baiting me. No answers, just flat out opposition and resentment.

Post some biblical truth so I can say AMEN
I've said nothing here for you to start an argument.

Let agree to disagree that we agree to disagree, Sheeze

Happy posting

 

[freeindeed2]

Open the bible you'll be really mad.

Every thread I've started there you are. No answers, just flat out opposition and resentment.

Post some biblical truth to shut me up.
I've said nothing here for you to start an argument.

Happy posting

Were you expecting a different result?

In Christ alone...

 

[JonMiller]

The question is were they under the old covenant/10 commandments that was given by God as a covenant to Israel at Mt. Sinai?

That isn't an interesting question to me. For one thing, it is obvious that Paul doesn't think that Christians are under the old covenant. Then the interestsing questoin is, what is the old covenant?

The questoin is whether the law that all of man (From Adam all down) is under is included in the law given to the Israelites at sinai.

If it is, then the study of the law given to the israelites is useful.

It if isn't, then it isn't useful.

I think that it is clear what Paul thinks the answer to this question is also.

The only person I have seen attempt to address these questoins here from outside the traditional "10 commandments are an implementation of God's law" (a point of view held by most Christians throughout history, I think) is Tall... and he only addressed the 4th commandment. And while my opinion hasn't been changed, I can see his argument.

I have seen no one here take up these questoins relating to the rest of the commandments. I have seen a number of people read a few statments from Paul and desire to be rid of all of the law (given to the jews) in the old testament. I can understand why people hold this view as, particularly in the adventist church, the law given to the jews has been abused. That doesn't make it make sense when looking at all of what Paul wrote, however. Or from the words of Christ.

peace,
JM

 

[freeindeed2]

That isn't an interesting question to me. For one thing, it is obvious that Paul doesn't think that Christians are under the old covenant. Then that questoin is, what is the old covenant?

28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. Ex 34

Interesting yet?

The questoin is whether the law that all of man (From Adam all down) is under is included in the law given to the Israelites at sinai.

17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later [after Abraham], does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. Gal 3

1 “And now, Israel, listen carefully to these decrees and regulations that I am about to teach you. Obey them so that you may live, so you may enter and occupy the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 Do not add to or subtract from these commands I am giving you. Just obey the commands of the Lord your God that I am giving you.

44 This is the body of instruction that Moses presented to the Israelites. 45 These are the laws, decrees, and regulations that Moses gave to the people of Israel when they left Egypt, Deut 4

2 “The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today [Moses' day!]. 4 At the mountain the Lord spoke to you face to face from the heart of the fire. 5 I stood as an intermediary between you and the Lord, for you were afraid of the fire and did not want to approach the mountain. He spoke to me, and I passed his words on to you. This is what he said: [10 commandments to follow!!!] Deut 5

Paul [AND MOSES} is EXPLICITLY clear EXACTLY when the Law came into effect. The Torah makes it EXPLICITLY clear to whom it was given (Israel) as a covenant between God and Israel. There is NO doubt about that.

If it is, then the study of the law given to the israelites is useful.

Oh, it's useful alright. They perpetually broke it which gave cause for a new and better covenant to be made, NOT like the one made with Israel.

It if isn't, then it isn't useful.

Already stated, it's COMPLETELY useful.

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.


24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

We are NO LONGER under that tudor (schoolmaster) that was to lead the Jews to Christ. (We Gentiles were NEVER under it.)

I think that it is clear what Paul thinks the answer to this question is also.

COMPLETELY CLEAR! The Gentiles are and were NEVER under that covenant/law.

The only person I have seen attempt to address these questoins here from outside the traditional "10 commandments are an implementation of God's law" (a point of view held by most Christians throughout history, I think) is Tall... and he only addressed the 4th commandment. And while my opinion hasn't been changed, I can see his argument.

Good! Tall has a sound mind in his head and clearly sees the problems with trying to be a Christian and live under the old covenant.

I have seen no one here take up these questoins relating to the rest of the commandments.

Refer back to point number 1!

28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. Ex 34

It was a package deal. The Sabbath was clearly the sign of the old covenant, which Christians are NOT under.

13 "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. Gen. 31

Any questions?

I have seen a number of people read a few statments from Paul and desire to be rid of all of the law (given to the jews) in the old testament.

I have CLEARLY included texts from the OT as well.

I can understand why people hold this view as, particularly in the adventist church, the law given to the jews has been abused.

Abused? I'd say it's quite a bit more than that! The Jewish Christians virtually demanded that Gentile Christians become Jews FIRST, BEFORE being considered (by them!) Christians. That included the entrance sign of CIRCUMCISION!!!! Think about it! That's why Paul said that they (the Jews who made such demands) should mutilate (cut it ALL off) themselves! Paul was pretty strong with his words for those who demanded them to follow the covenant made with them at Mt. Sinai!!!

That doesn't make it make sense when looking at all of what Paul wrote, however.

Paul was ABUNDANTLY clear that Christians were NOT under the old covenant.

In Christ alone...

 

[Cribstyl]

Made you look

Let God's word be true in your hearing.


NLT - Deu 4:32 -"Search all of history, from the time God created people on the earth until now. Then search from one end of the heavens to the other. See if anything as great as this has ever happened before.

Those who try to convince people about when God's law was given have no text to stand on.
Moses, who wrote Genesis and Dueteronomy expresses that nothing so great has ever been done before the law was given at Sinai. To teach that Sinai was a regiving of God ten commandment seems trully unscriptual. Moses asked us to look back to Adam to see if anything like this has ever taken place.
Does God need to strike a match twice?

NIV - Deu 4:13 -He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
Why is it not crystal clear to some that God's covenant with Moses is the ten commandment?


KJV - Deu 5:3 -The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.

To read and apply this text to understanding, some people still look back towards Adam for the ten commandment because Adam repesent all humanity rather to whom these commandment were really given.

Sheeze Crib..... you're onto something
I think this text was original to this room. It does make one think that Moses is exited about something other than a rerun of the 10.com, especially since He wrote Genesis.

stay possitive you're brilliant, brilliant

 

[honorthesabbath]

Were you expecting a different result?

In Christ alone...

And you know the definition of that don't you?

 

[honorthesabbath]

Sheeze Crib..... you're onto something
I think this text was original to this room. It does make one think that Moses is exited about something other than a rerun of the 10.com, especially since He wrote Genesis.

stay possitive you're brilliant, brilliant

Are you talking to yourself?

 

[freeindeed2]

And you know the definition of that don't you?

The definition of what?

 

[honorthesabbath]

The definition of what?

Never mind.

 

[JonMiller]

Free, think a bit abstractly. The Bible is contradictory if you don't (and you get positions like yours or like the traditionals here).

JM

 

[Cribstyl]

Are you talking to yourself?

Self?,...

Yes

she haven't figure that out either


Loosen up Honor....you're loved and respected.

Let's agree not to disagree to agree

 

[JonMiller]

COMPLETELY CLEAR! The Gentiles are and were NEVER under that covenant/law.

Do Gentiles sin?

If the answer is Yes, then according to Paul they are under the law (note that this doesn't mean that they are part of the jewish covenant).

Once more, please attempt to think abstractly. Think about what things mean, rather than just grabbing a statement here or there that appears to defend your conclusions (While ignoring those that do not).

JM

 

[freeindeed2]

Do Gentiles sin?

If the answer is Yes, then according to Paul they are under the law (note that this doesn't mean that they are part of the jewish covenant).

They are a law unto themselves.

Once more, please attempt to think abstractly. Think about what things mean, rather than just grabbing a statement here or there that appears to defend your conclusions (While ignoring those that do not).

JM

Is the Bible (grabbing at statements - from the BIBLE) not enough for you. If you would like to go through the whole chapters and books, I'm game. That's what I've spent the past 7 years doing. It's all there, and is HARDLY 'grabbing a statement here or there'. If I hadn't done this I would still be an SDA pastor! Give me a break. Open your Bible and read!

In Christ alone...

 

[freeindeed2]

Never mind.

That's what I thought.

 

[JonMiller]

They are a law unto themselves.

What do you think that this means?

JM