hard to have un-saved friends? is for me...

[endure]

do any of you find what paul said to be hard to live with?
2 cor 6.14-16
"...for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?..."

and david went as far as to say we must "contemn"
(or be disgusted by)
the vile man, if we are to walk with the Lord.

what does that do for your friendships?
i have unsaved friends that i love dearly, and that love me and that even watch out for me. i recently had an unsaved friend save my job, and save me about $1500. 00.
believe me, its no easy thing for me to even think about living a life seperated from those that dont follow Christ.
i have unsaved friends that id do anything for, and i know theyed do anything they could for me.

yet the bible says to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, that light can have no fellowship with darkness, that to befriend an enemy of God is to be an enemy of God, that a believer cannot befriend an infidel...

i think it all comes down to this. and please, id like to hear what you all think also.

the bible does teach that we ought to live amoung the sinners, FOR SAKE OF CONVERTING THEM, with the understanding that they need to be saved.

i understand that.
but we know our unsaved friends, well enough to know, which friends we are converting, and which ones are just there becuase we like them.

and the bible says that people who do not serve our God, have no place in our fellowship. meaning that those who openly and confessedly reject Jesus Christ... do not belong in our conversation or paths of life. whether we like those people or not. becuase God said thats how it must be, and even if our only motivation is "but God said" thats still how it must be. sometimes we must respect God for who he is and what he said, even if we dont get anything back or dont have any other reason, its about fearing (reverancing/respecting) the Lord.

now if those unsaved friends are in the process of being saved and listening to your witnessing and following you to God...thats diffrent.

but we know...those friends who dont love our God, and just dont care too. and i dont believe the bible allows for people like that in our lives.
becuase they are the enemies of our God, and for us to befriend them offends our God. and we must respect the lord in that issue.

another thing i think is important to be raised is this,
if you have friends that are not saved yet havent really "rejected" the Lord either... i understand the fault isnt theres...but IT IS yours, becuase you are commanded to save them AND EDUCATE them on godly matters so they can be saved.
God reconciled you to him, and then gave YOU the ministry of reconciliation.
this seperated lifestyle doesnt work rightly outside of a constant life of witnessing and declaring the message of God.
it will come down to unsaved people either REJECTING OR ACCEPTING christ, IF you are being the witness God has called you to be.

i know this a potentially hostile subject in certain environments but thats not what i want, this issue is shaking my life around alot...
what do you think?

 

[JesseB.]

Hi,
I too find it hard to have unsaved friends. However one must be acceptable towards them and learn to love them as Jesus loves us.

 

[PuppyforChrist]

I have un-saved friends, but it's not hard for me. Since I know they don't like to talk about Christianity, I won't force it on them. We talk about other things instead.

 

[Hishandmaiden]

I have unsaved friends, too. But I know God has a purpose for letting know them, and when I am with them, I will find opportunity to share Christ with them. But sometimes, I am with them just to give them the company they need.
Yes... God tells us not to mix with the unbelievers, and what he means is this:"Don't join them in their sinful activities."
But it is all right to join your unsaved friends in normal, not sinful activities like just spending time with them.
My advise: Be yourself-- the Christian that you are, when you are with Christians, and non Christians alike.
Do not compromise your holiness when you are with non Christians, but do not add too holy either. Just be what you will be when you are with your Christian friends. And they, Christians and Non Christians alike will see that you are not someone who has two faces.

 

[ebd]

I have several unsaved friends...and some aren't open to talking about God. I have talked to them in the past about it, and can see them tense up.

But I think that there are times when conversation naturally led to talking about Christ...and I think that those moments feel like times that God was nudging me to say something...or that the moment was already prepared in advance for me to say something...you know...times that God prepared in advance for things to be spoken of.

I think that God also brings people into our lives so that we can evangelize through our lives...the way in which we live is our witness...when we have integrity in the way we conduct our day to day lives, in how we do business, in how we treat others, etc.

We can also pray for them. I once heard a speaker say that evangelism and prayer go hand in hand with each other. God may use your prayers and also send others to speak to your friends besides yourself. I've often wondered when I've had a chance to tell others about Christ (the moments that seemed to go smoothly) if there were other Christians in that person's life who were already praying for that person.

As for unbelievers, we don't really know who is going to be saved or not... or even when a person will be saved. Just because people are rock hard in their hearts at the present moment, doesn't mean that they will always be that way. We have the privilege for interceding for them that God will keep reaching out to them and softening their hearts.
I want to mention this so that those of us who have been witnessing and praying for years will keep continuing to do so, because the final moment hasn't come yet for those loved ones who are still alive and still have time left to make a choice.

We might not always see the fruit of our labors...sometimes another person will be the one to reap the fields we have sown and/or watered.

Anyways, just my two bits!

God bless you all!

ebd

 

[BarbB]

Sometimes the issue is settled without any action on your part. My born-again brother warned me that some friends will drop me when they find out that I have been saved. and to some extent he was right! Yet 2 of the hardest pagans I know (and love) have not removed themselves from me and therefore I believe that I should evangelize gently (I'll pray for you, you are in my prayers, no I can't go cuz it's Sunday, I'll be busy at church, etc). They laugh softly, but do not tell me not to do it!!!!! And I have been able to answer questions as they have come up (i.e. after a funeral friends were confused by the reference to crowns in heaven - they thought that everyone would be equal - so I was able to show them the biblical references).

And while I love my heathen friends, I find it much more relaxing to be with my Christian friends!!!! Do not forget them!

God bless you -

 

[Galadriel]

Well, I do too have non-Christian friends (in terms of not born again).
I find it hard though to bring up Christ with them, cause I just feel like I am trying to sell something to them, and it would change the relationship and make it akward. I don't know, I have trouble with this. I want to open my mouth, but when opprotunity arises I find I can hardly breathe let alone talk with them about it. UGH!

 

[The Midge]

QUOTE=enduredo any of you find what paul said to be hard to live with?
2 cor 6.14-16
"...for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?..."

and david went as far as to say we must "contemn"
(or be disgusted by)
the vile man, if we are to walk with the Lord.

what does that do for your friendships?
i have unsaved friends that i love dearly, and that love me and that even watch out for me. i recently had an unsaved friend save my job, and save me about $1500. 00.
believe me, its no easy thing for me to even think about living a life seperated from those that dont follow Christ.
i have unsaved friends that id do anything for, and i know theyed do anything they could for me.

yet the bible says to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, that light can have no fellowship with darkness, that to befriend an enemy of God is to be an enemy of God, that a believer cannot befriend an infidel...


In this case not being unequally yoked means not to attempt to work to the same goals as an unbeliever because you can not pull in the same dirrection as them. Our goals and objectives in life are so different. Hence why this passage is applied to marriage so often.

As for the bible saying do not befriend an infidel or non believer... I ran an exaustive search of the NIV and KJV a could not find "befriend" in it. Perhaps my software has a bug in it.

i think it all comes down to this. and please, id like to hear what you all think also.

the bible does teach that we ought to live amoung the sinners, FOR SAKE OF CONVERTING THEM, with the understanding that they need to be saved.

Your wording troubles me Endure. The perception it creates is that you are only interested in getting a signature on the dotted line like a high pressure insurance salesman. People soon catch on if you are only regarding them as a potential addition to the church membership role or a spritual scalp for your heavenly tent pole.


Our mission may be to serve unbelievers. To demonstrate Unconditional Love. Feed the hungry, heal the sick, teach Biology, clean an office, grow or market food. This may be the mission God has given us. To accomplish it will mean we need to engage with the world. We may as well be friendly about it. It is a much better witness than shunning everyone who does not want go to church.


Sometimes just being good company is a ministry and a witness. I think the bible texts are more concerned about us coming under the influence of those who lead us astray. By talking, having a drink and being friends means we have the oportunity to be an influence on them.

i understand that.
but we know our unsaved friends, well enough to know, which friends we are converting, and which ones are just there becuase we like them.

Converting people is not our job. Being witnesses is. We are to present the message in the best way possible according to our abilities and situation. Just being friends may be the right thing at that time.

and the bible says that people who do not serve our God, have no place in our fellowship. meaning that those who openly and confessedly reject Jesus Christ... do not belong in our conversation or paths of life.

Does it ?!?

whether we like those people or not. becuase God said thats how it must be, and even if our only motivation is "but God said" thats still how it must be. sometimes we must respect God for who he is and what he said, even if we dont get anything back or dont have any other reason, its about fearing (reverancing/respecting) the Lord.

now if those unsaved friends are in the process of being saved and listening to your witnessing and following you to God...thats diffrent.

but we know...those friends who dont love our God, and just dont care too. and i dont believe the bible allows for people like that in our lives.
becuase they are the enemies of our God, and for us to befriend them offends our God. and we must respect the lord in that issue.

Sorry, I don't understand this last section very well. God loves us unconditionally even when we are far off, sinners and unrepentent. Should we not do the same to others?

another thing i think is important to be raised is this,
if you have friends that are not saved yet havent really "rejected" the Lord either... i understand the fault isnt theres...but IT IS yours, becuase you are commanded to save them AND EDUCATE them on godly matters so they can be saved.
God reconciled you to him, and then gave YOU the ministry of reconciliation.
this seperated lifestyle doesnt work rightly outside of a constant life of witnessing and declaring the message of God.
it will come down to unsaved people either REJECTING OR ACCEPTING christ, IF you are being the witness God has called you to be.

I disagree with this line of argument. For starters I don't save anyone. Jesus saves. Jesus never commanded us to educate people. And waht is this ministry of reconciliation? We can pass the message onto those who don't believe and help disciple those who do. Other than that the whole process is out of our control. Thankfully there are more ways to whitness than shoving scripture down people's throats.

i know this a potentially hostile subject in certain environments but thats not what i want, this issue is shaking my life around alot...
what do you think?

I Think we are not called to be isolationist and separated from the world. We are to be engaged in the world; in it but not of it.

 

[The Midge]

Well, I do too have non-Christian friends (in terms of not born again).
I find it hard though to bring up Christ with them, cause I just feel like I am trying to sell something to them, and it would change the relationship and make it akward. I don't know, I have trouble with this. I want to open my mouth, but when opprotunity arises I find I can hardly breathe let alone talk with them about it. UGH!

I know just how you feel!

 

[awackywabbit]

I would really question someone's faith if they didn't have non-Chrisitian friends. I mean how in the world are you suppossed to spread the good news if you don't have anyone to share it with?!?

On that same note, I don't think it is necessary to pin people down and ask them what they believe about Christ. Actions speak much louder then words, your life is a much better witness then your tongue. In my experience your friends will ask you about Jesus because they become so curious as to why you have a certain peace about you. If they don't ask then maybe it is because you aren't really living any differently then your unsaved friends are.

Now the above lesson has taken me many years to learn, and I am still learning it daily.

 

[endure]

awackywabbit,

yes you are suppposed to go and save the lost.
but the meaning of that isnt equal to consisently hanging around with ungodly people.
yes they do have a place in our lives, but when people arent open to the message of Christ and choose to reject it, that place becomes smaller. i dont believe we should be friendly to anything that is not friendly to our Lord. but no this doesnt mean to hate the person vehemently, but yes it does mean you dont hang around that person any more than you obligations require.
because light has no place with darkness, neither righteousness with unrighteousness.
the way they have openly chosen to live in an offence to our lord, and the Lord expects you respect that.

midge,

you said
"In this case not being unequally yoked means not to attempt to work to the same goals as an unbeliever because you can not pull in the same dirrection as them. Our goals and objectives in life are so different. Hence why this passage is applied to marriage so often."

no, i dont think it applies only to gaols and directions and actions.
becuase like david said we ought to "contemn" or see as vile, the vile person. we shouldnt feel ok around people who choose to live a way of life that is an offence to the Lord and that is displeasing to him.

you said
Your wording troubles me Endure. The perception it creates is that you are only interested in getting a signature on the dotted line like a high pressure insurance salesman. People soon catch on if you are only regarding them as a potential addition to the church membership role or a spritual scalp for your heavenly tent pole.

well you are mistaken.
it isnt about credentials and extra stripes.
but i am not a part of this world or a part of this people, my life is about Christ and nothing else, i do love my people and want them to be saved, and they are more than statistics to me. but that does not mean they are everything to me, only God is everything to me. when a person chooses to deny Christ i go on with my life as Jesus said to the disciples to do.
it was king Saul that fell from God and the prophet Samuel wept over him deeply and cried out, and then God answered and said "how long will you weep over Saul?" becuase that was the path Saul had chosen.

yes are sent to serve the lost, but Jesus also said to shake the dust from your feet and go on with your life and ministry when they refuse him.

yes you we are to serve the lost, but i am only a servant to one person, and that is God. and the only reason i am the servant of the lost, is becuase i am a servant of God. and when a person refuses my God, and my God picks up camp and moves on, i follow him.
the only reason that the lost are my priority is becuase they are his priority.
though yes i do love them and i do care for them and i do want them to be saved, but no that doesnt mean i embrace and make people permanent parts of my life, even when they openly choose to deny my God.
righteousness has no place with unrighteousness.
sin has no place in my life, and when you fellowship with people who have chosen to deny Christ you cannot avoid the conflict it brings.

you said
Converting people is not our job. Being witnesses is. We are to present the message in the best way possible according to our abilities and situation. Just being friends may be the right thing at that time.

ok you say that saving them isnt our Job but witnessing is, in an attemp draw the conclusion that it isnt about who gets saved but about the witness we are being, in order to say that even if someone rejects the message of Christ it doesnt matter becuase your only there to be a witness.

but,
the bible records Jesus telling the disciples that when people rejected Christ there comes a time when you accept that and move on with your life and ministry, and you dont have to strive and cry over them for the rest of your life, they have descision making abilities and God deals with them too, they arent innocent.
and beyond that,
i dont think we should befriend something that has chosen to openly defy and cast down our Lord and Savior. God has no open arms to that, and we shouldnt either.

you said
Sorry, I don't understand this last section very well. God loves us unconditionally even when we are far off, sinners and unrepentent. Should we not do the same to others?

God loved the pharisees that hated him violently, but that doesn't mean he dwelt with them and was good friends with them.

yes he is a God of unconditional love, but that doesnt mean he doenst have a wrathful side, becuase the does say there is a wrath of God that comes upon the children of disobedience.

just becuase you love someone doesnt mean they cant make you angry or that you embrace them no matter what they do.
there is a time when God swears in his wrath, and punishes those that he loves.
yes his love is unconditional but that doesnt mean he and them are always on good terms and all he feels for them are feelings of happiness.
john the baptist was called the greatest of the prophets, and he didnt embrace ungodly people with open arms.

you said
I disagree with this line of argument. For starters I don't save anyone. Jesus saves. Jesus never commanded us to educate people. And waht is this ministry of reconciliation? We can pass the message onto those who don't believe and help disciple those who do. Other than that the whole process is out of our control. Thankfully there are more ways to whitness than shoving scripture down people's throats.

well it doesnt matter really if you agree,
the bible says he gave unto us the ministry of reconciliation.
the bible says the people who sins we remit are remitted and those who we dont, arent.
we dont have to be the driving force and ability of salvation, for their salvation to depend on us. it does.

you said
I Think we are not called to be isolationist and separated from the world. We are to be engaged in the world; in it but not of it.

i dont think we are to be isolationists either, but no i dont think we ought to have much relation with people who reject our God.
becuase righteousness has no place with unrighteousness.

it does say to
"come out from amoung them" 2 cor 6.17
not just,
"stay there but dont act like them or let them influence you".

 

[fully]

Well for me its easy to have saved and unsaved friends. The difference is that I am not going to be spending most of my time with my unsaved friends unless I am gong to be a witness to them because I dont' want them to rub off on me.
We can't fellowship with the unsaved so I spend most of my time with my saved friends. Yet I do choose to get together with my unsaved friends and do stuff with them because I want to be a witness to them and want to love them so they can see the love of Christ in me.
Now that does not mean I go anywhere with them or tollerate drugs and bein around drinking and sexy and party's with those things , cause I don't. I would not choose to be around those things at all. But I would choose to be a friend to someone who did do those things. After all Jesus would. I would choose to love that person and look beyond their sin to the real person. Then I would be able to lead them to Christ, by first showing I care and don't judgem or condemn them for their sin.

 

[The Midge]

QUOTE=endure

midge,

you said
"In this case not being unequally yoked means not to attempt to work to the same goals as an unbeliever because you can not pull in the same dirrection as them. Our goals and objectives in life are so different. Hence why this passage is applied to marriage so often."

no, i dont think it applies only to gaols and directions and actions.
becuase like david said we ought to "contemn" or see as vile, the vile person. we shouldnt feel ok around people who choose to live a way of life that is an offence to the Lord and that is displeasing to him.

I still have to go out to work for a living, buy groceries from the family. I happen to live in a post Christian Society not a ghetto even though I may be one of a minority of a population who is a practising Christian. I certainly don't have to dispise my fellow countrymen no matter how much I disagree with their world view and behaviour.

you said
Your wording troubles me Endure. The perception it creates is that you are only interested in getting a signature on the dotted line like a high pressure insurance salesman. People soon catch on if you are only regarding them as a potential addition to the church membership role or a spritual scalp for your heavenly tent pole.

well you are mistaken.
it isnt about credentials and extra stripes.
but i am not a part of this world or a part of this people, my life is about Christ and nothing else, i do love my people and want them to be saved, and they are more than statistics to me. but that does not mean they are everything to me, only God is everything to me. when a person chooses to deny Christ i go on with my life as Jesus said to the disciples to do.
it was king Saul that fell from God and the prophet Samuel wept over him deeply and cried out, and then God answered and said "how long will you weep over Saul?" becuase that was the path Saul had chosen.

yes are sent to serve the lost, but Jesus also said to shake the dust from your feet and go on with your life and ministry when they refuse him.

yes you we are to serve the lost, but i am only a servant to one person, and that is God. and the only reason i am the servant of the lost, is becuase i am a servant of God. and when a person refuses my God, and my God picks up camp and moves on, i follow him.
the only reason that the lost are my priority is becuase they are his priority.
though yes i do love them and i do care for them and i do want them to be saved, but no that doesnt mean i embrace and make people permanent parts of my life, even when they openly choose to deny my God.
righteousness has no place with unrighteousness.
sin has no place in my life, and when you fellowship with people who have chosen to deny Christ you cannot avoid the conflict it brings.

I consider myself to be an ambassador for one who dined with tax collectors and sinners. An imitator to the best of my ability of that person. A representative who tries to demonstrate the same kinds of values has he does. By serving the lost I serve my God. I don't give up on people, even the ones I may not happen to like very much, because he does not give up on me. They are still wonderful human beings created by God even if they reject the Gospel. God still loves them! The challenge is to continue to show that.

you said
Converting people is not our job. Being witnesses is. We are to present the message in the best way possible according to our abilities and situation. Just being friends may be the right thing at that time.

ok you say that saving them isnt our Job but witnessing is, in an attemp draw the conclusion that it isnt about who gets saved but about the witness we are being, in order to say that even if someone rejects the message of Christ it doesnt matter becuase your only there to be a witness.

Yeah thats a fair summary.

but,
the bible records Jesus telling the disciples that when people rejected Christ there comes a time when you accept that and move on with your life and ministry, and you dont have to strive and cry over them for the rest of your life, they have descision making abilities and God deals with them too, they arent innocent.
and beyond that,
i dont think we should befriend something that has chosen to openly defy and cast down our Lord and Savior. God has no open arms to that, and we shouldnt either.

Firstly that instruction was a very specific occasion, (the sending out of the 70/ 72) for a specific time and place and culture. It was a sign for those who even refused to listen. Second, I live in a three bed semi-detached house in a sedentary society with a lot of churches. There is no where to move on to. The only people I have to whitness to are the ones I happen to meet day to day at work and in the street. Thanks to the web I can discuss debate and witness on line and encounter more people that way. If the best way to be a witness is to be a friend then I will if I can. It is all to easy to shut my self off in a cosey church community but won't do the spreading of the message any good.

you said
Sorry, I don't understand this last section very well. God loves us unconditionally even when we are far off, sinners and unrepentent. Should we not do the same to others?

God loved the pharisees that hated him violently, but that doesn't mean he dwelt with them and was good friends with them.

He did accept dinner invitations though.

yes he is a God of unconditional love, but that doesnt mean he doenst have a wrathful side, becuase the does say there is a wrath of God that comes upon the children of disobedience.

It is not my place to be a judge on behalf of God.

just becuase you love someone doesnt mean they cant make you angry or that you embrace them no matter what they do.
there is a time when God swears in his wrath, and punishes those that he loves.

Disciplines those He loves. Punishment would imply taking vegence out of spite or fullfillment of the law. Christ fullfilled the law through his death and resurrection. Discipline is applying correction in order to build up. Discipline is an act of love.
yes his love is unconditional but that doesnt mean he and them are always on good terms and all he feels for them are feelings of happiness.
john the baptist was called the greatest of the prophets, and he didnt embrace ungodly people with open arms.

you said
I disagree with this line of argument. For starters I don't save anyone. Jesus saves. Jesus never commanded us to educate people. And waht is this ministry of reconciliation? We can pass the message onto those who don't believe and help disciple those who do. Other than that the whole process is out of our control. Thankfully there are more ways to whitness than shoving scripture down people's throats.

well it doesnt matter really if you agree,
the bible says he gave unto us the ministry of reconciliation.
Where? What exactly is this "ministry of reconcilliation"?
the bible says the people who sins we remit are remitted and those who we dont, arent.
John 20: 23? This is a puzzeling verse.
we dont have to be the driving force and ability of salvation, for their salvation to depend on us. it does.
Sorry, I can't make sense of this paragraph. Are you suggesting we forgive their sins [against God]?

you said
I Think we are not called to be isolationist and separated from the world. We are to be engaged in the world; in it but not of it.

i dont think we are to be isolationists either, but no i dont think we ought to have much relation with people who reject our God.
becuase righteousness has no place with unrighteousness.

it does say to
"come out from amoung them" 2 cor 6.17
not just,
"stay there but dont act like them or let them influence you.

I'm not suggsting we should be influenced by the un-Godly. We are ceratinly not. There are some things that are off limit. (Strip clubs, drunken nights on the pull etc). The kind of friendship I'm thinking of is a taking someone to the hospital, buying an elderly neighbour their groceries, looking after next door's cat when on holiday, baby sitting swaps , talking about mutual interests such as sport or hobbies and that kind of thing.

I also believe the way we behave is an important factor in our witness. If our life is inconsistant with bible teaching it undermines the message. Another good reason for not sinning.

God Bless Midge.

 

[desi]

Some of my best friends are unsaved, that does not mean they are wicked. They just don't have the faith to commit to Christ yet. Better they are honest about it than to fake it.

 

[Cherberrie]

I have several unsaved friends...and some aren't open to talking about God. I have talked to them in the past about it, and can see them tense up.

But I think that there are times when conversation naturally led to talking about Christ...and I think that those moments feel like times that God was nudging me to say something...or that the moment was already prepared in advance for me to say something...you know...times that God prepared in advance for things to be spoken of.

I think that God also brings people into our lives so that we can evangelize through our lives...the way in which we live is our witness...when we have integrity in the way we conduct our day to day lives, in how we do business, in how we treat others, etc.

We can also pray for them. I once heard a speaker say that evangelism and prayer go hand in hand with each other. God may use your prayers and also send others to speak to your friends besides yourself. I've often wondered when I've had a chance to tell others about Christ (the moments that seemed to go smoothly) if there were other Christians in that person's life who were already praying for that person.

As for unbelievers, we don't really know who is going to be saved or not... or even when a person will be saved. Just because people are rock hard in their hearts at the present moment, doesn't mean that they will always be that way. We have the privilege for interceding for them that God will keep reaching out to them and softening their hearts.
I want to mention this so that those of us who have been witnessing and praying for years will keep continuing to do so, because the final moment hasn't come yet for those loved ones who are still alive and still have time left to make a choice.

We might not always see the fruit of our labors...sometimes another person will be the one to reap the fields we have sown and/or watered.

Anyways, just my two bits!

God bless you all!

ebd

I just wanted to say, you and RPGGAL said pretty much everything I was thinking! I've been hanging out with a girl who used to be a Jehovah's Witness but was disfellowshipped (or whatever they call it) for a couple of years. Anyways, I'm just hanging out with her, being myself, praying for her heart to open. A couple of weeks ago she came over and wanted me to show her scripture verses on certain issues, and I was just so happy! She is so thirsty to learn more.
I do think you need balance with friends though. You need the support of your Christian friends, and your non-Christian friends need you as a living witness to what God can do.

 

[Stanfi]

First God should be our first friend. Our relationship with him should be number 1. We need Christian friends in our lives. Our Christian friends are the ones we can go to when we need sound Godly advice for our lives.

Yes, I have non-Christian friends, but my relationship with them is not as deep as it is with my Christian friends. My Christian friends are who I talk to about serious problems in my life, because I know they will give Godly advice. Where as those who do not know the Lord won't.

Jesus himself ate with sinners. When he was comfronted about it. He said it is not the well that need a physician, but the sick. Remember this, We may be the only Bible our lost friends ever read. We need to live a Godly life before them and set and example, and hopefully we can lead them to Christ.

 

[endure]

mrstace,

i understand that jesus ate with sinners.
but there is a diffrence between a man that is a sinner and doesnt know the truth, and man that knows it and rejects it.
and when it comes to that, like paul said light has no fellowship with darkness, nor righteousness with unrighteousness.
and as david said to contemn the vile man.

im not saying to forsake the lost or your burden for the lost.
but when a person rejects your God, in respect for him, you should not have place with them.
light does not fellowship with darkness.

desi,
im not trying to be mean but the bible says we all have a measure of faith, enough to be saved. God is not going to stand and say
"i understand why you didnt accept me as your Lord, im sorry i didnt give you enough faith to work with"
the lost are wicked people, they are crafted that way from before birth.
and God has no open arms for people who reject him. no one who does not accept him is innocent.

midge,
you said
"I still have to go out to work for a living, buy groceries from the family. I happen to live in a post Christian Society not a ghetto even though I may be one of a minority of a population who is a practising Christian. I certainly don't have to dispise my fellow countrymen no matter how much I disagree with their world view and behaviour."

nothing i said meant that you have to hate anyone, but you should still have an inward disgust for their choice of life and those that have chosen that way, but it does not mean you dont still love them.
nothing i said meant you cant go get groceries, nothing i said meant you cant go to work. but you do have to watch who bring close in your life.
who you hang out with, who you go to dinner with etc.
and when a man chooses to reject Christ, it is much much more than a person simply innocently choosing a diffrent world view, God will send them to hell one day, that choice has no friendship with him, nor should it with us.

but beyond all that, the basis for all i have said still stands alone and hasnt been changed by anything.
2 cor 6.14-15,17.
"be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with belial? or what part hath he that believes with an infidel?
wherefore come ye out from amoung them and be ye seperate..."

you said
I consider myself to be an ambassador for one who dined with tax collectors and sinners. An imitator to the best of my ability of that person. A representative who tries to demonstrate the same kinds of values has he does. By serving the lost I serve my God. I don't give up on people, even the ones I may not happen to like very much, because he does not give up on me. They are still wonderful human beings created by God even if they reject the Gospel. God still loves them! The challenge is to continue to show that.

non of that changes that when a person fully rejects Christ, then you must seperate yourself from them.

2 cor 6.14-15,17.
"be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with belial? or what part hath he that believes with an infidel?
wherefore come ye out from amoung them and be ye seperate..."

you said
Firstly that instruction was a very specific occasion, (the sending out of the 70/ 72) for a specific time and place and culture. It was a sign for those who even refused to listen. Second, I live in a three bed semi-detached house in a sedentary society with a lot of churches. There is no where to move on to. The only people I have to whitness to are the ones I happen to meet day to day at work and in the street. Thanks to the web I can discuss debate and witness on line and encounter more people that way. If the best way to be a witness is to be a friend then I will if I can. It is all to easy to shut my self off in a cosey church community but won't do the spreading of the message any good.

i wont go into pointless conversation and discussion drawing this int onehundred directions into vague pointless areas.
the bible says that righteousness, does not have fellowship with unrighteousness.
everyone knows there is a diffrence between people who do not know the truth, and people who know it, have heard it, and rejected it.
one needs help and one needs to discipline and judgement.

do those people know? if not, then sure.
have they rejected the truth? if so, then reject them.

titus 3.10-11
"A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition, reject:
knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himself"

 

[The Midge]

First God should be our first friend. Our relationship with him should be number 1. We need Christian friends in our lives. Our Christian friends are the ones we can go to when we need sound Godly advice for our lives.

Yes, I have non-Christian friends, but my relationship with them is not as deep as it is with my Christian friends. My Christian friends are who I talk to about serious problems in my life, because I know they will give Godly advice. Where as those who do not know the Lord won't.

Jesus himself ate with sinners. When he was comfronted about it. He said it is not the well that need a physician, but the sick. Remember this, We may be the only Bible our lost friends ever read. We need to live a Godly life before them and set and example, and hopefully we can lead them to Christ.

Very well put Mrstace.

 

[The Midge]

Dear Endure,

You still have the problem of deciding who is unrightous and who is rightous/ Holy. As I have discussed else where I can not determin at what level of sin is the difference between the two. There is such a range of different opinions about what is right and wrong, not just between the believer and unbeliever but also within the Church (hence the number of different denominations, many claiming to be the last faithful remnent or to bear the most true witness to Christ).

The challnege is to place you marker to meassure us all against.

P.S.
Don't forget that it will be the same meassure against which you will be judged!

 

[Onwardclimb]

awakkywabbit,
I DON'T/WON'T have "unsaved friends" and yet I am a member of the Christian faith and I have brought people to Christ.

The reason why I don't/won't have "unsaved friends" is because to me TRUE "friendship" (iron sharpening iron) is a spiritual connection and something soooooooo deep that it can't be shared with someone who is an unbeliever. I do have acquaintances who are non-believers though, and I witness to them, but they can NEVER NEVER be my friends.

I get sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo MAD when I hear the argument that Jesus had nonbelievers for friends. IMHO, Jesus's relationship with them is better described by the word "acquaintance". He was around them, He'd go where they were, He witnessed to them and He healed them etc.... but as I understand it, they WEREN'T His friends. The only reference that the Bible gives for Him being a friend of sinners & drunkards was given by the pharisees NOT by Christ Himself. I don't know, it just upsets me BIG time when I see Christians agreeing with the pharisees about Christ. Also, Jesus said that the world loves its own and hates us if we belong to Him (John 15:18-25). Personally, I'd be VERY concerned about who I belonged to if I were able to have non-Christians for friends.

God bless,
Onwardclimb