hard to have un-saved friends? is for me...

[endure]

midge

you said
You still have the problem of deciding who is unrightous and who is rightous/ Holy

no.. actually thats no problem at all.

 

[awackywabbit]

awakkywabbit,
I get sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo MAD when I hear the argument that Jesus had nonbelievers for friends. IMHO, Jesus's relationship with them is better described by the word "acquaintance". He was around them, He'd go where they were, He witnessed to them and He healed them etc.... but as I understand it, they WEREN'T His friends. The only reference that the Bible gives for Him being a friend of sinners & drunkards was given by the pharisees NOT by Christ Himself. I don't know, it just upsets me BIG time when I see Christians agreeing with the pharisees about Christ. Also, Jesus said that the world loves its own and hates us if we belong to Him (John 15:18-25). Personally, I'd be VERY concerned about who I belonged to if I were able to have non-Christians for friends.

God bless,
Onwardclimb

I don't think the original greek would translate into acquaintance. I could see how it would make things easier for people if it did though.

Just the fact that Jesus ate with tax collectors is a sign that they were much more then mere acquaintances. Agreeing with the Pharisees is not actually a bad thing, after all they were the religious gurus of the day(church leaders if you will), at that time. Their heart may have been in the wrong place, but they sure did know their Scriptures.

My question is how do you witness to someone who is not your friend? Hand them a track, tell them you'll be in hell if you don't believe and then pat yourself on the back because they gave you a dirty look and your were persecuted? Honestly I get sooooooooo mad when I hear Christians have this kind of attitude. This whole better then thou thing has got to go. The world is changing folks and you have to step out of your holy huddles and make a difference while we still have the freedom to do so.

Befriending an unbeliever doesn't mean you are yoked together with them. It means you are there for them when you they need you.
I have many non-Christian friends and they know I am completely sold out for Christ. I do not compromise my beliefs and they respect me for that, just as I respect them. I cannot count the times that they have asked me about Christ because they were curious about why I am so different from them. Many would never step foot in a church because they have been treated like dirt by other Christians, but they will open their hearts to Christ because he accepts them as they are with no strings attached.

I think that someone else in this thread mentioned the verse, "what does light have in common with darkness" and they are right when they said nothing at all. But we are called to be a light in the darkness, however we are shining our lights in the wrong place. The world is filled with darkness and the Christians who reflect the true light of Christ are barricading themselves behind the church doors while the world wanders around aimlessly in the dark.

 

[A Taffer]

I used to have five friends. They all told me they don't believe in God. One of them was my ex girlfriend. I gave this some long thought and I have effectively removed myself from their presence because even though I know them the fact that they reject God makes me loathe them and I can't stand to talk to or be around them anymore. I shared the Gospel with them and they all have their views on how it isn't true and such. Guess you could say I'm not happy around them so is it hard to have unsaved friends..yes it is. For me.

 

[Onwardclimb]

I don't think the original greek would translate into acquaintance. I could see how it would make things easier for people if it did though.

Personally, I’m NOT too much concerned with what the translation would be in “original greek”. Anywho, like I said before Jesus NEVER said that about Himself, the Pharisees did.

Just the fact that Jesus ate with tax collectors is a sign that they were much more then mere acquaintances.

REALLY???? And just how did you come to that conclusion??? Do we have to be “friends” with everyone we eat with???? I can’t answer for you, but I personally do NOT. Here’s some of what Jesus said about His friends: John 15:13-16 18-19 (NIV) 13-Greater love has no one than this, that He lay down His life for His friends. 14-You are my friends if you do what I command. 15- I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16-You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last….18-“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19-If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world. That is why the world hates you.

Agreeing with the Pharisees is not actually a bad thing, after all they were the religious gurus of the day(church leaders if you will), at that time. Their heart may have been in the wrong place, but they sure did know their Scriptures.

BUT they did NOT know Christ!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore, I do NOT believe we should share their opinion(s)/belief(s) about Him.

My question is how do you witness to someone who is not your friend? Hand them a track, tell them you'll be in hell if you don't believe and then pat yourself on the back because they gave you a dirty look and your were persecuted?

As you well know, the answer to your questions is NO!!! You witness by asking God to lead you, following His lead when He presents an opportunity, and praying that the Holy Spirit will speak through you & allowing Him to do so. If God leads you to “…hand them a track”, warn them about Hell etc… you do it, because HE and ONLY HE knows what they need to hear & when they need to hear it.

Honestly I get sooooooooo mad when I hear Christians have this kind of attitude. This whole better then thou thing has got to go.

IMHO, its your perception of Christians who don’t/won’t have non-Christian friends that “has got to go”. As I understand it you’re just assuming that we have that “holier than thou” mentality just because we will not be friends with an unbeliever. I can’t speak for everyone you feel this way about, but PERSONALLY, I think I am better than NOONE, but I do believe that I am following the doctrine of the scriptures (ie. James 4:4 (NIV)- “You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.”), and the example of the Savior by not being friends with them, and just being acquaintances. When they come to Christ, THEN we can possibly be friends, but before that time we’re JUST acquaintances.

Befriending an unbeliever doesn't mean you are yoked together with them. It means you are there for them when you they need you.

I guess we have differing interpretations of what friendship is. I personally can be there for ALL people---as an acquaintance, and without becoming an “…enemy of God”.

I think that someone else in this thread mentioned the verse, "what does light have in common with darkness" and they are right when they said nothing at all. But we are called to be a light in the darkness, however we are shining our lights in the wrong place. The world is filled with darkness and the Christians who reflect the true light of Christ are barricading themselves behind the church doors while the world wanders around aimlessly in the dark.

I can kind of agree with you here, with the exception that I believe that we can be a light by being acquaintances/”in the world but not of it”. I DON’T have to be united with unbelievers in a bond/connection as deeply spiritual & supporting as friendship to me is (ie. David & Johnathan, Elijah & Elisha). Your Sister In Christ,Onwardclimb

 

[The Midge]

midge

you said
You still have the problem of deciding who is unrightous and who is rightous/ Holy

no.. actually thats no problem at all.

Go on then, tell me where the line is.

 

[The Midge]

QUOTE=Onwardclimb
Personally, I’m NOT too much concerned with what the translation would be in “original greek”. Anywho, like I said before Jesus NEVER said that about Himself, the Pharisees did.REALLY???? And just how did you come to that conclusion??? Do we have to be “friends” with everyone we eat with???? I can’t answer for you, but I personally do NOT. Here’s some of what Jesus said about His friends: John 15:13-16 18-19 (NIV) 13-Greater love has no one than this, that He lay down His life for His friends. 14-You are my friends if you do what I command. 15- I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16-You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last….18-“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19-If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world. That is why the world hates you. BUT they did NOT know Christ!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore, I do NOT believe we should share their opinion(s)/belief(s) about Him.

I think there is a world of difference to the concept of being "friends with the world" and friends with people. "Friends with the world" is a figure of speach for being materialistic, conforming to expectations in order to gain in this life (that promotion, big house,fast car, whatever, conforming to the ziegiest, compromise of belief and faith. Peer pressure is something to be wary of. You needn't be infleuenced by 'friends' who are perhaps better described as aquaintances. To be sure I would not seek the opinions of nonchristians especially about the trails of life and faith. There is a world of difference between friendship and fellowship, which the image of the yoked oxen discribes.

Have a thought about the General Appologetics Forum. There are many Christians engaging with athiests and aganostics or those of other faiths. Some are genuine equirers others are out to undermine. If you are not prepared to engage listen and debate in a friendly way then there is no point in attempting to witness is this field. (Unless you think God is honoured by Christians who come across as being ignorant, bigotted, closed minded and intollerant).

As you well know, the answer to your questions is NO!!! You witness by asking God to lead you, following His lead when He presents an opportunity, and praying that the Holy Spirit will speak through you & allowing Him to do so. If God leads you to “…hand them a track”, warn them about Hell etc… you do it, because HE and ONLY HE knows what they need to hear & when they need to hear it.

And if he tells you to act like a friend to them you would do it... right?

IMHO, its your perception of Christians who don’t/won’t have non-Christian friends that “has got to go”. As I understand it you’re just assuming that we have that “holier than thou” mentality just because we will not be friends with an unbeliever. I can’t speak for everyone you feel this way about, but PERSONALLY, I think I am better than NOONE, but I do believe that I am following the doctrine of the scriptures (ie. James 4:4 (NIV)- “You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.”), and the example of the Savior by not being friends with them, and just being acquaintances. When they come to Christ, THEN we can possibly be friends, but before that time we’re JUST acquaintances. I guess we have differing interpretations of what friendship is. I personally can be there for ALL people---as an acquaintance, and without becoming an “…enemy of God”.

I can kind of agree with you here, with the exception that I believe that we can be a light by being acquaintances/”in the world but not of it”. I DON’T have to be united with unbelievers in a bond/connection as deeply spiritual & supporting as friendship to me is (ie. David & Johnathan, Elijah & Elisha). Your Sister In Christ,

Onwardclimb

Yes, there is a different definition of friendship at work here. I don't think there was ever meant to be a prohibition of friends at work, the school PTA, with your next door neighbour or the local sports club for example. In such contexts we should be seeking to be an influence not influenced.

My concern is that is un-Christ-like to shun others as if they were contamination. That leads you to the across to the other side of the road and past the unfortunate robbery victim. If that is how react then they will pick it charge you with hypocracey. To those who do not believe I feel more pity than disgust. It is what comes from within that makes us unclean not external influences.

There was a programme on TV last night, a kind of make over show where dirty houses are cleaned up. There be a lesson in life. You have to get up close and personnel with the lavatory bowl to get it clean. Attack the grime with cleaner with your hands, paper towl and a pair or rubbber gloves. If you try to keep it at arms length with a brush you don't get the same result and you end up with the contents of the loo festering of the brush hairs. The same with dealing with fallen human beings.

 

[Onwardclimb]

I think there is a world of difference to the concept of being "friends with the world" and friends with people. "Friends with the world" is a figure of speach for being materialistic, conforming to expectations in order to gain in this life (that promotion, big house,fast car, whatever, conforming to the ziegiest, compromise of belief and faith.

I DISAGREE with your interpretation/rationalization of that scripture. I DON’T believe “friends with the world” means ANYTHING other than what it says. The Bible says that we are NOT to be friends with the world to me the key word is “friends”. As I understand it, you can only be a friend to/friends with PEOPLE, and “the world” is a common term in scriptures for masses of evil people/people who do not know God/Christ (ie. Isa 13:11, Mt 5:14, Ro 3:19, 2Cor 5:19, James 2:5 etc.)

If you are not prepared to engage listen and debate in a friendly way then there is no point in attempting to witness is this field.

Pardon’ai moi, was I unfriendly in my posts??? If so, PLEASE accept my apology.

(Unless you think God is honoured by Christians who come across as being ignorant, bigotted, closed minded and intollerant).

I think that God is honoured by Christians who trust Him enough to stand their ground, speak the revelations He has given them, and not compromise their beliefs because of what other people may think/say about them. Seeing as how ONLY God knows the heart, what He has revealed to that respective heart etc…—if one would bestow those kind of labels on someone for speaking what’s on THEIR heart(s), then they would be guilty of judgementalism. Personally, I tend NOT to let the judgements of man/”the world” bother me, because when it all comes down to it the ONLY opinion/judgement of me and/or anything I may do/say/write etc… that matters is GOD’S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And if he tells you to act like a friend to them

Then I’d know that I had heard the WRONG voice, because I believe that that’s going against the very doctrine of the word of God.

… you would do it... right?

WRONG!!!! I’d more than likely say “Get thee behind me satan” and resist the masquerading demonic spirit that told me that.

… we should be seeking to be an influence not influenced.

AGREED!!!! Only, I can/will “influence” as an “associate”.

My concern is that is un-Christ-like to shun others as if they were contamination.

For the record, I DON’T shun anyone. Nor do I understand how not being friends with unbelievers/the world/wicked people/darkness etc… is shunning.

You have to get up close and personnel with the lavatory bowl to get it clean. Attack the grime with cleaner with your hands, paper towl and a pair or rubbber gloves. If you try to keep it at arms length with a brush you don't get the same result and you end up with the contents of the loo festering of the brush hairs

It all depends on the type of cleaner that you use. My personal favorite is “Scrubbing Bubbles” you just spray that foamy stuff on the grimy area, wait a couple of minutes/however long it may take--you can even leave the room clean somewhere else etc… while you wait--check in on it now and then and when you see that the bubbles have dissolved the grime away you just rinse it down the drain.

The same with dealing with fallen human beings.

I guess here is where we differ. I believe that it takes someone with MUCH more cleansing power than we have to cleanse “fallen human beings”. I think that its our job to spray on the One with the power to wash them with “hyssop” by prayer(s), witness(ing), and/or spreading His seeds of righteousness. He knows the kind of cleansing they need and when and where they need it, I DON’T. Also, not too many people (Christian/not) respond well to being “attacked”, my experience is that those kind of cleanings usually only succeed in pushing people away. God bless,Onwardclimb

 

[endure]

midge
the line is called sin.

 

[BattleAxe]

I am going through this right now. The issue is not that I am having a profound effect on them but they on me. To be specific, the one that I am referring to is my brother. he is unsaved and every week we have lunch together. Well he is a smoker and I don't smoke (except when I am around him). I can't isolate myself from him and we can't isolate ourselves from our friends but at the same time, are we having a postive effect on them or are they having a negative effect on us??

That is the question I am having to answer right now.

 

[The Midge]

midge
the line is called sin.

We're all doomed then!

 

[endure]

nah...

1 pet 4.1
"he that suffers has ceased to sin..."

 

[The Midge]

Praise the Lord!
I suffer from hayfever therefore I have ceased sinning and am OK!

 

[endure]

praise God for that then, im so happy for you.

i am glad to see that you have finallly believed the bible that clearly states that if you can suffer for godliness, you can cease to sin.

1 pet 4.1
"he that suffers has ceased to sin..."

take it up with peter...no Jesus.

oh and yeah, it is talking about having a mindset, but he did not stop there, he did dare to say that through suffering you could cease to sin, though you cant forget about grace and the Holyghost though that is common sense.

farewell to you, i think this will be the last time we talk.
may you find the truth and be saved.