Halloween!

[Izzy23]

I gotta say...I almost feel the enemies influence on this subject. No more postings for me. There doesn't seem to be anything positive being accomplished here anyway. Love to all.

 

[Zebra1552]

Candy is evil? Goodness, you’re missing the whole principle of the matter.

Which is what, that the supposed origin of a holiday matters more than how it's celebrated today? I think you're the one missing my point.

God does say that; try Jeremiah 10:2 and Deut 18:9.

Nice job ripping that out of context.
Jer 10:2 Thus says the LORD: Do not learn the way of the nations, or be dismayed at the signs of the heavens; for the nations are dismayed at them.

Way, singular. Also speaking to Israel, not every Christian. The entire chapter references practices no longer done by most modern societies.

Deu 18:9 When you come into the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the abhorrent practices of those nations.

God didn't give America to the Christians coming out of... where, exactly? He gave ISRAEL to the ISRAELIS coming out of EGYPT. Non sequitor.

No celebration is inheritantly good or evil?

Yes, that's what I just wrote.

Really, God’s appointed feasts aren’t holy (set-apart to Him)? Wow…

Holy != good. Straw man argument. You're attacking what I said by ignoring it to focus on a completely different word.

At least the appointed feasts ARE in the Bible AND given by Him.

So you're saying it has to be given by God to be practiced justly? That's like saying it has to be permitted in the Bible to be morally right.

Why do people defend nonsense holidays that don't even have holy roots, when they could be enjoying the fullness and richness of God's celebrations as given in His Word?

Why do people rip modern holidays merely because they don't like how they started to try to enjoy outdated celebrations that focus on things Christ did away with on the cross?

If I went to my friend’s house to play with a oiji board (it’s just fun right? Or is it…not really!), is that serving the Lord?

If you have something to say that's relevant to what I wrote I'd be more than happy to address it. Walking around getting candy dressed up as a cop (probably, he's only said it every time I hang out with him) isn't the same as playing with an Ouija board (you're trying to tell me it's evil and you can't even spell it right?) and you know it.

 

[Zebra1552]

And I don't see Halloween (Hallows Eve) as holy, it's just not in the Bible.

Nor is the use of a computer, or the use of cars, planes, and cell phones, but you don't seem to have a problem with it.

 

[NDNgirl4ever]

I see nothing wrong with kids (and adults) getting dressed up and going trick or treating or to costume parties. It's harmless.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

I like Halloween!! I also like New Nightmare by Wes Craven!! I also like bacon, unfortunately you can't always eat bacon because you'll clog your heart. . . and Pazuzu wouldn't like it

. . . . wait wut??

 

[JRSut1000]

Whatever happened to Phil 4:8? How does Halloween (especially today) fit into that?

 

[Calminian]

Whatever happened to Phil 4:8? How does Halloween (especially today) fit into that?

I think there are endearing aspects to Halloween, though. 3 and 4 year olds in Dora the Explorer costumes, excited about candy. There's a community aspect to it that's a good thing, also.

I think also, fantasy occultism can also be a harmless and fun thing. CS Lewis used it in his Narnia series. Tolken used it as well, in Lord of the Rings. Disneyland's Haunted Mansion uses it.

The problem is, does it lower kid's defenses, so they are susceptible to getting involved in the real thing? What if they go from cute halloween practices to playing the ouija board on halloween? Does it tempt them or indoctrinate them into false beliefs that are consistent more with paganism than christianity?

This is why I'm going to be having a special bible study every halloween, after some innocent trick or treating. I see it as a great opportunity. That's just me.

 

[PaladinValer]

Whatever happened to Phil 4:8? How does Halloween (especially today) fit into that?

Fallacy of Begging the Question.

Since Halloween isn't in truth what you think it is, your argument is void.

Furthermore, which Halloween? All Hallow's Eve? (Christian) Reformation Day? (Christian) American Halloween? (Secular but harmless) Mexico's Day of the Dead? (Quazi-Christian and spiritually beneficial) Samhain? (Neopagan and therefore unacceptable).

Trick-or-treating, for crying out loud, is derived from Christian practices.

Seriously, as I've asked you before, LEARN first and THEN make a stance.

 

[LinuxUser]

They can't learn, it takes to much work

 

[JRSut1000]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals. Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective? He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

 

[Zebra1552]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

Please give me a few examples of how 'Christianity' is trying to look like the world, especially in ways that do not glorify God. As I see it, Christianity, being a belief system, cannot try to look like anything, seeing as it is an idea, not a living person. If you're talking about Christians looking like the world, that's nothing new. There are subjects in which that actually matters and shows that these Christians aren't in the right, and there are subjects that just don't matter. This is one of those that just doesn't matter. It's dressing up as a favorite character and getting candy and putting up spooky decorations. Some people go to 'haunted' houses, parties, and themed amusement parks (ValleyScare, anyone?), but that's not really my thing.

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals.

Then please explain, using Scripture, why Halloween is a holiday that no Christian should participate in. Also, do this in a way that is logically sound, historically accurate, and utilizes references to show that what you claim is historical fact and then demonstrate that how Halloween is currently celebrated either is directly tied to something that would make people sin by celebrating it, or is inherently sinful.

Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective?

Because it IS relative and subjective. Romans 12, each have different gifts according to the faith given them. Gifts of the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12. As was already brought up, Romans 14 and that which one feels comfortable doing and another they don't. I don't feel comfortable eating something I killed or killing things, so I don't hunt. Others have no problem with it, and that's fine. Like it or not, everyone has different preferences, different understandings of the Bible, and different ways of thinking.

He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

What you are or are not afraid of isn't the subject of this discussion. Nowhere does it say in Scripture that we shouldn't practice a holiday just because it's practiced by the majority of a nation. This isn't really an issue in which we need to be set apart. Demons aren't going to come and get me for clipping a lightsaber to my belt and throwing on a Jedi robe, nor will the world think I'm not a Christian for doing so. Ironically, the only people that would have a problem with it are other Christians who think Halloween is evil.

 

[D.R.O.I.D.]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals. Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective? He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

Did you really just come off your "CF Break" to tell us how unholy we are??

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

If dressing up for Hallowe'en and eating candy is trying to look like the world then so is wearing jeans, eating pie and owning a computer.

At some point we're going to have to realize that worldliness actually means something and isn't just a word to throw around casually just because we can.

Owning a car isn't worldliness. Working a job isn't worldliness. Celebrating Hallowe'en isn't worldliness. Throwing a birthday party isn't worldliness. Going to Applebees isn't worldliness.

Worldliness is that which reflects the values and corruption of this present age: Greed, the desire for power, violence, uncontrolled lust, malice, hate and anger toward our brother/sister.

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals. Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective? He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

Because no where in Scripture does God forbid His people from eating candy bars or dressing up as Spiderman. So to tell other Christians that they can't do harmless things simply because you--not God--have a problem with them is to act contrary to God's word which says that you have no right to judge your brothers and sisters over matters which God has said nothing.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

Cars don't glorify God. Nor does my Wii. Furthermore, I highly doubt my kitchen sink glorifies God.

I will say it again: the secular is not the opposite of the sacred. The profane, not the secular, is the opposite. The secular is inherently neutral, and its value is based on how it is used.

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals. Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective? He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

With all due respect, you have no yet answered a simple question I asked earlier. It is fundamentally clear that your opinion on this matter is based on misinformation. Those sorts of opinions are never right because what they are based on is always wrong. Truth doesn't work in the way you seem to think. Since truth is so central to Christianity, you shouldn't be so afraid of truth, for it will set you free.

Please give me a few examples of how 'Christianity' is trying to look like the world, especially in ways that do not glorify God. As I see it, Christianity, being a belief system, cannot try to look like anything, seeing as it is an idea, not a living person. If you're talking about Christians looking like the world, that's nothing new. There are subjects in which that actually matters and shows that these Christians aren't in the right, and there are subjects that just don't matter. This is one of those that just doesn't matter. It's dressing up as a favorite character and getting candy and putting up spooky decorations. Some people go to 'haunted' houses, parties, and themed amusement parks (ValleyScare, anyone?), but that's not really my thing.

Well said, as is the rest of your post. I also second your challenge.

Did you really just come off your "CF Break" to tell us how unholy we are??

According to Pietism, no one is holy except for the Pietists themselves.

If dressing up for Hallowe'en and eating candy is trying to look like the world then so is wearing jeans, eating pie and owning a computer.

YUp.

At some point we're going to have to realize that worldliness actually means something and isn't just a word to throw around casually just because we can.

Owning a car isn't worldliness. Working a job isn't worldliness. Celebrating Hallowe'en isn't worldliness. Throwing a birthday party isn't worldliness. Going to Applebees isn't worldliness.

Worldliness is that which reflects the values and corruption of this present age: Greed, the desire for power, violence, uncontrolled lust, malice, hate and anger toward our brother/sister.

Honestly, have you considered ordination? You'd make a great ordained cleric.

Because no where in Scripture does God forbid His people from eating candy bars or dressing up as Spiderman. So to tell other Christians that they can't do harmless things simply because you--not God--have a problem with them is to act contrary to God's word which says that you have no right to judge your brothers and sisters over matters which God has said nothing.

We are in full agreement.

God bless Lutheran minds like your's!

 

[katautumn]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

In fairness, though, this isn't an issue of trying to conform Christianity to the world. I guess I just don't understand why something has to be Christian specifically in order for it to glorify God. Rob Bell said it best when he said, "Christian works much better as a noun than an adjective". At what point do we allow ourselves to enjoy this life without completely compromising our relationship with Jesus?

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals.

There is something wrong with saying that when it comes to issues that aren't addressed in the Bible. Just as it's wrong for someone to claim, "no Christian man should have hair below his ears" or "no Christian woman should wear anything but ankle-length skirts" or "no Christian should listen to music that even remotely sounds like secular music". It's wrong to make those proclamations, because they aren't Bible-based (unless you really stretch the Scriptures), they're legalistic and they aren't salvation issues. In other words, it doesn't matter if someone thinks a Christian shouldn't do something, so long as what they are doing isn't a salvation issue, which celebrating Halloween is not.

Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective?

Because everyone's relationship with Him is unique, praise God!

He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

But how set apart looks to me may differ from what set apart looks like to the next person.

 

[HayleyAnn]

I'd like to point out that, although asked to several times, none of you anti-halloween folks has been able to give us one valid reason a christian should not celebrate halloween. It seems it's just been pounded into your heads that halloween is evil, and you have gone along believing that without even knowing the true history of the holiday.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Strangely enough all this arguing about Halloween got me thinking about something. I wonder if Christians who dislike Halloween ever watch horror movies and if they realize how many different types of literary and film genres of horror they are.

Example, I love psychological horror and The Silence of the Lambs is one of my favorite films. On the other hand I absolutely HATE body horror and as a result absolutely loath all the Saw films after the first and the Hostel films and films like it.

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with being interested in scary stories, movies,etc.

 

[Calminian]

Strangely enough all this arguing about Halloween got me thinking about something. I wonder if Christians who dislike Halloween ever watch horror movies and if they realize how many different types of literary and film genres of horror they are.

Example, I love psychological horror and The Silence of the Lambs is one of my favorite films. On the other hand I absolutely HATE body horror and as a result absolutely loath all the Saw films after the first and the Hostel films and films like it.

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with being interested in scary stories, movies,etc.

That's one of the things that shifted me on this issue. We were avoiding halloween, due to the fact it ostensibly celebrated the occult, but then had no problem visiting the haunted mansion at disneyland. We had no problem with the Narnia movies nor Lord of the Rings. All of those use fantasy occult for entertainment. There were other suspense thrillers we had no problem with also.

This is where I personally had in rethink things. I still believe, though, that God was honored by me following my conscience and avoiding the holiday at that time. I didn't have peace about it, and had I gone though with it despite my doubts, it would have been sin for me.

Rom. 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

This is one reason I wary of people trying to badger others into celebrating halloween. If one is pushed into it before they have peace about it, you can actually stumble them. In that case, the sin would be on you as well. I don't want to offend God in that way either.

My main goal on halloween (for i do see it as an opportunity) is to help my kids understand the difference between fantasy occult and the real thing—between casper, and demons. If they do not understand the difference properly then there is a real danger, and they could go from an innocent night of trick or treating to an "innocent" night of ouija boarding.

BTW, if you haven't seen the Exorcism of Emily Rose, you need to rent it right away. It's based on a true story of the exorcism of Analyse Michel, a young girl in Germany, in the 1970s. Just so you know, there are actually no special effects in the film to my knowledge. No gratuitous violence, or gore. Yet it is by far one of the most erie works I've seen. And it's actually a great movie with a very uplifting message. Great acting, great story line of science vs. the supernatural. The lead actress was actually a gymnast, and did all the contorting affects herself. Brilliant work. That's all I will say.

 

[Calminian]

I'm constantly shocked (but I guess shouldn't be) at how much Christianity tries to look like the world, even including those things that do not glorify God.

And I see NOTHING wrong with saying 'no Christian should do these things'. There are plenty of things in Scripture that were given to His people as a whole, not just individuals.

This is definitely true. There are many things in scripture that are non-negitiable. And there is a tendency for us to fit into the world, that sometimes goes overboard.

But remember, we are in the world, and there's no mandate that we cannot participate to any extent. In fact Paul said,

1Cor. 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.

His point was, that while we are to shun those who claim to be in the faith, who participate in sin, he did not mean for us to shun those outside of the faith who do not live the christian life. So we are not to be separatists like the Amish. We can participate in worldly things. We can wear the same clothes our neighbors wear, even listen to worldly beats! Yes we can even be employed by non-christians, and wear the same uniforms as our coworkers.

Why do we make Christianity so relative and subjective? He wants His people as a whole to be set-apart to Him and His ways. And I'm not afraid to say so.

You know who actually disagrees with you on this? The apostle Paul. He actually laid out the case, very explicitly, that some issues of sin were subjective to the individual.

Do me a favor. Read Romans 14—the whole chapter. Let me know if that doesn't adjust your comments above just a little. But it's a very clear cut case that something could be sin for one person, while not sin for another. In particular, he used examples of holidays and food.

 

[tyronem]

I'd like to point out that, although asked to several times, none of you anti-halloween folks has been able to give us one valid reason a christian should not celebrate halloween. It seems it's just been pounded into your heads that halloween is evil, and you have gone along believing that without even knowing the true history of the holiday.

Christians don't celebrate Halloween because it is rooted in witchcraft and paganism. Simple really.