Halloween!

[PaladinValer]

Trick or Treat,

Harmless activity. Giving free gifts is akin to what God did via the Incarnation. If anything, giving an undeserved gift is the essence of Christian love.

ghosts

Asides from surface value, ghosts aren't a part of any secular celebration of Halloween and absolutely not part of the Christian celebration of Reformation Day nor All Hallow's Eve.

the ugliness of Halloween,

That Begs the Question: "what ugliness"?

focus on the dead rather than the living, etc.

1. Undeath. There is a difference
2. The secular celebrations take things like vampires, ghosts, and ghouls only at a surface value. There is no homage paid to the dead or to evil. It is literally all in good fun.
3. The Christian feast of All Hallow's Eve prepares us for All Saints' which is the following day. The liturgy thanks God who called men and women from all walks of life to live such lives as to be models for the rest of us.

So far, you have no concrete rational objection. You did say "etc," so please continue.

I would also ask you to answer my other question: what, according to your understanding, is the history of Halloween?

 

[Izzy23]

Those of us, who are in agreement, that Halloween is not a day we celebrate are not trying to sound judgemental. We just don't choose to celebrate it. We are merely explaining the reason that we don't. No one is throwing stones except maybe the ones who we disagree with. Maybe you are judging us. Hmmmm......

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Sorry but I wont partake in things relating to ghosts and goblins and trick or treat (have you looked up the origin?) and other unholy practices in regards to this holiday and I wont condone the practice of it for the body of Christ as a whole either. Not even for the sake of 'tolerance' and 'subjectivity'. That's my stance and I stand by it.

Oh stand by it by all means. However, the self same democracies that allow us are ability for free speech also means I can call such stances based only in ignorance and superstition and voice the opinion that people with such stances are far far more worrisome than those who simply celebrate a commercialized candy day.

 

[PaladinValer]

Those of us, who are in agreement, that Halloween is not a day we celebrate are not trying to sound judgemental.

Issue: choosing not to celebrate it is one thing. Doing so because of incorrect presuppositions and false schema is another. Furthermore, promoting those presuppositions as factual is yet a third thing.

I have no issue with those who choose not to practice any form of Halloween. I do take issue, especially as a historian, who promote ideas that are not true to Halloween. As for choosing not to practice Halloweeen based on bad or incorrect schema, I'm personally disappointed because I believe one should make choices based on facts, not what we want facts to be.

We just don't choose to celebrate it. We are merely explaining the reason that we don't. No one is throwing stones except maybe the ones who we disagree with. Maybe you are judging us. Hmmmm......

Maybe we take issue with claims based on a Fallacy of Equivocation and bad history and we're not condemning anything except illogical arguments and psuedohistory. That, at least, is where I am coming from, and I daresay most of us are saying the same thing.

 

[Zebra1552]

Trick or Treat, ghosts, the ugliness of Halloween, focus on the dead rather than the living, etc.

That's funny, because you're the first person who's ever told me that Halloween focuses on the dead or is ugly... I don't see you going off on Dio De Los Muertos.

 

[Zebra1552]

Sorry but I wont partake in things relating to ghosts and goblins and trick or treat (have you looked up the origin?)

Why does the origin of such things matter if they are no longer practiced in that fashion and are modified to be harmless and fun?

and other unholy practices in regards to this holiday and I wont condone the practice of it for the body of Christ as a whole either. Not even for the sake of 'tolerance' and 'subjectivity'. That's my stance and I stand by it.

Your stance is based in erroneous logic, namely, you jump from 'that's the way it started' to 'that's the way it's done now so it's evil' with nothing in between.

 

[Zebra1552]

Those of us, who are in agreement, that Halloween is not a day we celebrate are not trying to sound judgemental. We just don't choose to celebrate it. We are merely explaining the reason that we don't. No one is throwing stones except maybe the ones who we disagree with. Maybe you are judging us. Hmmmm......

No, you're not sounding judgmental at all, just saying it's wrong, wrong, wrong, and you can never condone such obvious wrongness without any logic connecting why it was wrong then and why it is wrong now. No, you're not sentencing anyone, just saying an entire holiday is evil, regardless of the millions that practice it. By saying the holiday is wrong, or that the beginning of said holiday was wrong, and it's wrong for you to practice it, you inevitably apply your judgment to everyone else, and that indeed is judgmental.

 

[JRSut1000]

Just a note, when God shows us what NOT to do He usually shows us what TO do instead. My kids wont be trick or treating, waiting for Santa Clause or getting chocolate from the Easter Bunny. But they won't be missing out on much at all because God's ways are better!

Instead, they will be enjoying great family memories of Passover, the really fun time of Sukkot, and the other feasts of God. In these is Biblical significance in which there is no evil or hint of evil.

So call me strange, call me 'out in left field', but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD in our days of celebration too!

God tells us not to practice the ways of the nations, but He gives us a better way full of richness and knowledge and celebration!

 

[PaladinValer]

Just a note, when God shows us what NOT to do He usually shows us what TO do instead. My kids wont be trick or treating, waiting for Santa Clause or getting chocolate from the Easter Bunny. But they won't be missing out on much at all because God's ways are better!

You have not answered my question.

Instead, they will be enjoying great family memories of Passover, the really fun time of Sukkot, and the other feasts of God. In these is Biblical significance in which there is no evil or hint of evil.

All holy days of a false religion whose practice implies the non-Messiahship of Jesus of Nazareth.

God tells us not to practice the ways of the nations, but He gives us a better way full of richness and knowledge and celebration!

Judaism is a false religion. Why you would practice religiously the holy days and feasts of another religion and condemn the secular celebrations of Halloween is completely beyond me.

 

[JRSut1000]

Well then, this is where I leave because there will be NO agreeing in this thread. Believe me when I say, the core of this disagreement goes way deeper than simply Halloween.

 

[SonOfTheWest]

Well then, this is where I leave because there will be NO agreeing in this thread. Believe me when I say, the core of this disagreement goes way deeper than simply Halloween.

I think the part you are missing is that essentially some take umbrage at the idea of someone essential saying, "Halloween is bad because........the moon is made of cheese!" You could erase Halloween there and insert anything and someone would still question someone's comment not due to the subject of the ire, but due to the fact there ire's origin is based on poor logic.

 

[PaladinValer]

Well then, this is where I leave because there will be NO agreeing in this thread. Believe me when I say, the core of this disagreement goes way deeper than simply Halloween.

I know exactly what you mean by it. It is pietistic and false.

I would like you to answer my question which you still have not done: what is your understanding of the history of Halloween? I have the feeling you aren't giving it because you know I and others will pick it apart and, more than likely, you'd be right.

And that is what the true isssue is here: the unwillingness for people to actually be corrected from their false presuppositions and schema because they falsely think that their faith is going to be destroyed by it. The fact that so many of us are Christians yet accept the truth on the matter is proof that the only thing that would change is false information being rejected. How that is somehow a bad thing (tm) I will never be able to comprehend.

When the entirety of Christianity is able to fully embrace the fact that the secular isn't the profane, that reason and logic are not ungodly, and that we are not automatically some bunch of super saved people, then the world would be a much better place and God will be pleased.

Yes, I do stand by that statement.

 

[Zebra1552]

Just a note, when God shows us what NOT to do He usually shows us what TO do instead. My kids wont be trick or treating, waiting for Santa Clause or getting chocolate from the Easter Bunny. But they won't be missing out on much at all because God's ways are better!

Yes, yes, candy is evil, we know. What you're also doing to your kids is subjecting them to unneeded ridicule and slander from kids that will think they're crazy.

Instead, they will be enjoying great family memories of Passover, the really fun time of Sukkot, and the other feasts of God. In these is Biblical significance in which there is no evil or hint of evil.

Any celebration can be abused, and no celebration is inherently good or evil. That you would say there is no evil in Hebrew celebrations implies that there is evil in modern celebrations and that is just an assumption on your part.

So call me strange, call me 'out in left field', but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD in our days of celebration too!

I'm serving the Lord by spending time with a little buddy of mine to take him trick or treating. If you would deny that fact, then you deny that spending time with people is important and aren't really worth talking to.

God tells us not to practice the ways of the nations, but He gives us a better way full of richness and knowledge and celebration!

You know, I'm seeing a lot of 'God says this' or 'God says that' coming from you, but I'm not seeing a whole lot of actual Bible references. I think you're making it up.

 

[JRSut1000]

Candy is evil? Goodness, you’re missing the whole principle of the matter.



God does say that; try Jeremiah 10:2 and Deut 18:9.



No celebration is inheritantly good or evil? Really, God’s appointed feasts aren’t holy (set-apart to Him)? Wow… At least the appointed feasts ARE in the Bible AND given by Him. Why do people defend nonsense holidays that don't even have holy roots, when they could be enjoying the fullness and richness of God's celebrations as given in His Word?



If I went to my friend’s house to play with a oiji board (it’s just fun right? Or is it…not really!), is that serving the Lord?

 

[PaladinValer]

Candy is evil? Goodness, you’re missing the whole principle of the matter.

Are you going to answer my question?

No celebration is inheritantly good or evil? Really, God’s appointed feasts aren’t holy (set-apart to Him)? Wow… At least the appointed feasts ARE in the Bible AND given by Him. Why do people defend nonsense holidays that don't even have holy roots, when they could be enjoying the fullness and richness of God's celebrations as given in His Word?

Halloween has some excellent and very holy roots if you knew the real history of it.

In addition, all the Jewish feasts are now worthless thanks to Jesus. Judaism is a false religion; any practice of its feasts for any religious reasons is implicitly a denial of the Deity and Messiahship of Jesus.

If I went to my friend’s house to play with a oiji board (it’s just fun right? Or is it…not really!), is that serving the Lord?

1. They are about as demonic as a glass of water.
2. They have nothing to do with secular Halloween celebrations.

 

[JRSut1000]

Like I said, we're going to disagree no matter what because our premise for our beliefs is very different. Unlike you, I see Messiah exalted within Yahweh's holy feasts. You think YHWH the Father is going to do something that would deny His Son later on? Goodness NO! I don't serve a changing God!

And ouiji boards are demonic, it puts faith in something other than GOD. It was an example by the way, not saying ouiji boards are a part of Halloween.

And I don't see Halloween (Hallows Eve) as holy, it's just not in the Bible.

So as you see, we differ greatly on a few very key points and it does go deeper than one holiday (Halloween). I'd say let's just agree we're going to disagree on this matter.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

1. They are about as demonic as a glass of water.
2. They have nothing to do with secular Halloween celebrations.

1. Kinda depends. The board itself is nothing more than cardboard or depending where you go you can get a wooden one and certain woods I am told have better spiritual resonance. If you are just mucking around it's nothing. To each their own really.
2. Agreed.

 

[MasterpieceMesias]

AMBER!!! You've been listening to too much Dimmu Borgir (I notice that sig)
try Dissection instead, you'll be saner. lool

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

I love losing my sanity in the lyrics of Vortex. ooooo he is sooo dreamy. Also yes I will try them out Tried out Mortician and amber liked :3 Also love the new sig :3

 

[PaladinValer]

Like I said, we're going to disagree no matter what because our premise for our beliefs is very different.

I suppose that is true enough.

Unlike you, I see Messiah exalted within Yahweh's holy feasts.

Which isn't possible...

You think YHWH the Father is going to do something that would deny His Son later on?

1. Yahweh is the "Name" of the Deity. Jesus is as much Yahweh as the Father (and the Holy Spirit).
2. The New Testament makes it clear that God foreshadowed much with the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. Jesus has fulfilled the Law and the Prophets: as it is clearly stated, things like pork were never unclean in the first place; God told them not to do certain things to keep them separate from the Pagans so they could be a light to the world and prepare all His Creation for the Incarnation, who is THE Light. As such, all Jewish feasts are now without benefit or merit. To give them merit is to deny the very essence and orthodoxy of who Jesus is.

And ouiji boards are demonic, it puts faith in something other than GOD.

You clearly have no clue then what is demonic. Secular isn't profane; profane is profane. A ouiji board is little more than superstition.

And I don't see Halloween (Hallows Eve) as holy, it's just not in the Bible.

Nor is the Trinity, yet people who profess Christ must believe it to be counted as Christians and to have the fullest assurance of salvation.

Just because it isn't directly verbatum stated in the Holy Scripture doesn't mean it isn't holy, good, etc. That's not what sola scriptura theologizes. Or rather, that is what Evangelical Protestants think it means, but they are wrong; just ask a Lutheran.

So as you see, we differ greatly on a few very key points and it does go deeper than one holiday (Halloween). I'd say let's just agree we're going to disagree on this matter.

Answer my question: what is your understanding of what the history of Halloween is. You are passing judgment, false judgment perhaps, on something I suspect you don't even actually understand right. You cannot logically pass judgment on something you don't have accurate knowledge about. In fact, God through the Holy Writ warns us about such things and condemns it.